Skip to comments.Jesus Family Tomb Believed Found
Posted on 02/25/2007 10:33:09 AM PST by steadfastconservative
New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetic laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.
The findings also suggest that Jesus and Mary Magdalene might have produced a son named Jonah.
The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts--originally excavated in 1980--open a potentially signficant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.
A documentary presenting the evidence, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," will premiere on the Discovery Channel on March 4 at 9 pm ET/PT.
On March 28, 1980, a construction crew developing an apartment complex in Talpiot, Jerusalem, uncovered a tomb, which archaeologists from the Israeli Antiquities Authority excavated shortly thereafter. Archaeologist Shimon Gibson surveyed the site and drew a layout plan. Scholar L.Y. Rahmani later published "A Catalogue of Jewish Ossuaries" that described 10 ossuaries, or limestone bone boxes, found in the tomb. Scholars know that from 30 B.C. to 70 A.D., many people in Jerusalem would first wrap bodies in shrouds after death. The bodies were then placed in carved rock tombs, where they decomposed for a year before the bones were placed in an ossuary.
Five of the 10 discovered boxes in the Talpiot tomb were inscribed with names believed to be associated with key figures in the New Testament: Jesus, Mary, Matthew, Joseph and Mary Magdalene. A sixth inscription, written in Aramaic, translates to "Judah Son of Jesus."
"Such tombs are very typical for that region," Aaron Brody, associate professor of Bible and archaeology at the Pacific School of Religion and director of California's Bade Museum told Discovery News. . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at dsc.discovery.com ...
Uh gee. And Yeshua (Jesus' real name translated Joshua today), Miriam (Mary's real name after Moses's sister), Joseph, Jonah, Judah, and Matthew were not at all common names in ancient Israel? Its enough to make me want to cancel my Satellite subscription. Wish we could choose to omit certain channels from our billing.
Indeed. To coin a phrase, this whole line of reasoning is a dumb as a box of bones.
In the name of the Commissar, the Comrade and the Holy Proletariat... Amen.
I think this was already posted on FR, but if it's a different article about the same story, I'm sure you'd like to keep your finger on the pulse.
In other words "We can't prove it."
This is simply false. There is nothing in the DNA analysis that could suggest this is the remains of Jesus. Any "scientist" who connects their name to such a demonstrably false claim should have their degree pulled.
Previous posts of this story from various sources:
My first thought on reading this was that it "supports" Islamic theology while attempting to destroy Christianity. I don't understand the DNA "excitement" other than that just the mention of DNA somehow sanctifies a conclusion. Junk science at its worst.
A son named Jonah? Now that's a whale of a tale!
Actually it doesn't even support Islamic theology. According to Islam, Isa ascended into heaven, and will return to convert the world to Islam in preparation for Judgement Day. The alleged body of Jesus would discredit Islam's theological claims as much as Christianity's. And Muslims would be the ones who would do something violent about it. If there's any hilarious (and I have a dark, morbid, and blatantly immoral sense of humor) about this, is Cameron's attempts to discredit Christianity--attempts that will fail--will earn him a Fatwa from Wahhabi-esque imams.
But this is just bad archaeology (the archeologist who found the site has disowned the conclusions Cameron presents), bad science (what exactly is DNA going to prove?), and worse history. Yes, the disciples of Jesus willingly died terrible deaths for a known lie, a "manufactured myth". The Romans and Sadduccees had all the ample opporutnity to fling Jesus' dead body around, but couldn't, which is why the Sadducceees accused the disciples of sneaking the body out of the tomb--because the body wasn't there. The lack of functional common sense on the part of the so called "enlightened" is dangerous.
Good grief, here we go again with this gnostic stuff, during another Lent.
Did any of you read the entire article?
Any comment about the statistical analysis of name frequency? Can you argue with the analysis that the chances are 600:1 that this is it?
I'd think Christians would be excited about this find?
i'm sure you know as well as anyone that you can "statistically" prove whatever you want to prove. it's all conjecture, based on the FAITH that Christ was not God.
"excited that the Christ was not resurrected and that he lived with mary magdalene, ala the davinci code?"
I never read or saw it, though I heard about it a little. I thought there were age-old stories that had happened, I'm not an expert in this area.
"i'm sure you know as well as anyone that you can "statistically" prove whatever you want to prove."
No, statistics don't "prove" anything. They establish things like likelihood, margin of error, and similar things. It's a branch of math, and the usefulness of correct statistical analysis can be proven, literally. In this case they compared the sample (names on the ossuaries) with the known frequency of names at the time, and determined the chances were 600:1 against it being a different family. It could be the 1 in 600, or it could be that the known frequency of names is incorrect, or it could be that the math is incorrect.
"it's all conjecture, based on the FAITH that Christ was not God."
No, I asked about a mathematical calculation that asserts to show statistical likelihood. That's totally unrelated to faith.
No amount of evidence that Jesus was a mere human, no matter how great or how credible, would shake the faith of devoted believers. However, this new information might serve to dissuade potential new converts, although "born again" experiences rarely occur for intellectual reasons, I've observed. If people want to believe something badly enough, they're going to believe it, no matter what. Evolution, for instance, didn't much dent Christianity, even though it's a widely accepted scientific theory which directly contradicts the Bible.
Slings and arrows are fine, it shows that secular people are still trying.......
Cameron might be upset that the hack Dale Brown sold so many books and he is trying to horn in on the Gnostic action.
Thanks Kevmo for the ping, and thanks GoLightly for the handy list of all the topics (thus far) posted about this documentary (or possibly crockumentary).
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I was kind of wondering what DNA evidence?? Did they randomly poll people and ask if they were descended from Christ and if the said yes get permission for a DNA sample?
Consider this. The tomb of Jesus was very well guarded.
How did someone get the bones and hide them away? Did the Roman guards even knowing the penalty for this, conspire with Jesus' followers to remove the bones from the tomb?
Did the Jewish and Roman authorities who had much at stake in proving that Jesus was just another sect leader decide not to expose this theft? If the ressurection never happened what harm would there have been in Jesus' followers simply saying He was a wise teacher meant to show how to live in perfect accord with God's word? Would that view not have lead to a pilgrimages to the tomb of this great man?
The bones of Christ are not here. The resurrection is True. From that Truth the apostles were able to take hope and spread the faith. Defeated, demoralized,scattered, it was their witnessing of the Risen Christ that breathed new life into them. No mere vision or expression of their desire that He was still with them. They really saw, heard, touched the Savior.
So these liars can mutter their foolishness quite frankly they are farting in the wind. Making a big stink that soon gets blown away.
Yep, I'm mightily impressed that these high school dropouts found Jesus' tomb on a weekend lark! I mean, archeologists have only been searching for Jesus' tomb for a couple of hundred years and here Cameron flits off to the Middle East and uncovers it between brunch and dinner. I mean, it's brilliant! These guys are geniuses!!!
Let's fire all our old scientists; hollywood's got us covered! They could probably figure out how to build a fusion reactor AND figure out whether or not we should actually build one by sunrise tomorrow if they really put their minds to it.
Were Joseph and Mary buried in Jerusalem? Didn't they live in Nazareth? So the box has the name Mary Magdelene on it or just Mary? Whatever, I think this is a fraud. I don't believe anything the media says about religion, particularly Christianity.
You might want to add that evolution is also a widely discredited theory.
Oddly enough, those who hold fast to it take on the appearance of any of the myriad religious fanatics they attempt to demean...
"statistical analysis of name frequency"
I'd like to see how he arrived at his stats.They are based on what ? There is also some disagreement about the authenticity of the inscriptions themselves.The box was originally owned by an antique dealer who has had much trouble in the past with the authenticity of his cllection.
I hadn't heard. Thanks for informing me.
Maybe this is merely a test to show those who believe the story that on Judgment Day they had less wisdom than those who simply placed faith in Him through Christ.
I think it's merely a fraud by a group of atheists.
Yes, but consider what group they are targeting to influence the thinking of others.
If they seek to influence the belief of real believers, they really don't understand the meaning of the Gospel and/or have such hardened arrogant hearts that they really believe they know more on their own, than is possible.
If their targeted audience are unbelievers, they simply manifest those who follow their thinking are incredibly stupid and naive.
In either case, they have blinded themselves, thinking themselves wise, they manifest their foolishness to all.
That's a good point. Like "The Da Vinci Code," this seems to be an attempt to be aimed at those who are intellectually and spiritually children, even if they're chronologically adults.
A line about millstones and the sea comes to mind ...
I read the whole article. As everyone knows, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
It doesn't matter whose name was on the ossuary. Anyone's remains could be in it. Moreover, there is no forensic evidence that would prove that these remains belonged to Christ.
Finally, why would Christians be happy about a documentary that is attempting to debunk one of the main tenets of our faith, namely, the Resurrection?
I agree with you completely.
Jesus appeared to over five hundred different people after He rose from the dead. His death and resurrection have been well documented. The presence of the soldiers at the tomb belies any claim that His body was stolen.
There is strong eyewitness and historical testimony that Christ rose from the dead. There is no historical evidence that He ever married or had children. The "scientific" evidence that supposedly shows the contrary is speculation and fabrication.
When I read this article, I thought, oh, ho-hum, it's the usual pre-Easter "we've found Jesus' body" article that somebody comes up with every year. Regular as clockwork.
Yep, the unbelievers just can't help themselves. They'll not be happy until all skulls full of mush beiieve their lies about our Lord and Saviour.
Wow!!! DNA evidence shows that people buried in a family tomb were related!!! AND one of them wasn't, so she may have been the wife of a family member!!! I think these guys should be required to debate the libs who claim Jesus never existed. Why don't the leftie loons ever have to argue with each other?
Yep. 'Tis the season...
Another reason to disdain all these " DaVinci Code" style theories is this.
It makes no sense for the Apostles who were devout Jews to make up a story that in the opinion of many contemporaries contradicted the beliefs of their religion. Why claim the core doctrines of Christianity, Virgin Birth, Incarnation, Atoning Death on The Cross, Resurrection, Ascencion, when such claims will only lead to outcast, derision, persecution and death. Why maintain this stumbling block?
Especially when it would have made more sense in trying to attract converts from Judaism that Jesus was a very wise teacher who taught us how to live perfectly in accord with God's will. Remember in the early days the Apostles limited their mission to the Jews. Yet they chose the illogical and very dangerous path of bringing infamy down on their heads.
The only answer that makes sense is as I have said their personal witness and encounters with the Risen Christ. Only that would persuade them to go agaist their own faith and culture.
And lest we forget, their very real awareness of death. In that time dead people were not whisked out of sight to a funeral home. The washing of the body, the wrapping in shrouds, the entombment were all done by family or other loved ones. No doubt at least some of the Apostles saw Jesus laid in His tomb. Their's was a culture that knew about death and decay. The external body held no mysteries for them.
All the attempts to discredit Christianity just show that Satan is desperate. He knows the war was lost when Jesus rose again. But he continues to battle against God, by sowing seeds of confusion and blasphemy amongst the world. Our weapon against this is prayer. For we know the Truth and it has set us free.
Agreed. Surely if any of this were true, it would have been mentioned in the most authoritative book of The Bible: The Gospel of Judas.
< /sarcasm >
My first thoughts too.
Wouldn't Joseph be buried in Bethlehem if he died near Jerusalem, or in Nazareth?
Of course his body and relics are nowhere to be found either, just like the Blessed Virgin's. St. Matthew 27.52-53.
I seriously doubt the legitimacy of their statistical manipulation -- the dishonest portrayal of the DNA 'evidence' is plenty of reason to be suspicious of any of their other claims -- but even aside from that, I strongly suspect that they included 'Matthew' simply because it's a New Testament name, even though there's no particular reason why Matthew would have been buried with Jesus' family (the same for the second Mary, who BTW is *not* identifed by the term 'Magdalene' on her ossuary). The reality is that first century Judea had lots of people with the same given names, which is why the New Testament has multiple Simons, Judases, Jameses, Marys, Philips, Johns, etc.
"I'd like to see how he arrived at his stats."
Then go look it up and read it.
".The box was originally owned by an antique dealer who has had much trouble in the past with the authenticity of his cllection."
That was the one box thatr WASNT found in the tomb.
Not sure if I caught all of them, as I only did a search for articles with "Jesus" in the title.
The collection is continuing to grow:
***this new information might serve to dissuade potential new converts***
I doubt it. His sheep know His voice and will respond, regardless of any such nonsense.
It didn't say Jesus. The tomb had air shocks and it said DeJesus.
This article mentions a statistical likelihood of one in 10 million of it not being the Biblical Jesus' family. Slight variation, there, huh?
Great post! For two-thousand years the loser has been pulling a gore-ism, trying to convince humankind that the winner didn't win
**600:1 against it being a different family.**
I wouldn't get on a plane with those odds of not crashing. Why trust James Cameron's "science?"
It's apparent that you're exercising your freedom of choice.