Posted on 03/09/2007 3:53:04 PM PST by Terriergal
We're that good, hey? (as human beings can we create the image of God?)
"But that was because they were putting up spiritual roadblocks that kept people from the simple message of salvation."
"YEP you got it! That's exactly what I'm saying!"
No, if I remember correctly, on the other thread you said,
"Yes I would like it to be exclusive to believers. It is a place for believers to be edified. It was never intended to be a place of evangelism."
No, that's not what he's doing. He's not 'suggesting' - you have to take this in the context of his greater teaching -- this is what you HAVE to do to make your church grow. He never tells you what message you shouldn't compromise. All kinds of cults and sects and religions can use his PDC with 'success' -- so obviously it is not 'Christian.' So I don't know about you, but I am going to quote from my hubby here as he addressed our church council during their driving us out of the church:
Ultimately though, if the first and last impulse of the spiritual leadership of the church is not rooted in the Word of God, then how can we expect it to accurately determine what His will is in every situation?
It is important not to consider any decisions or actions by the council to be minor, in light of Luke 16:10: “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.”
It should not take a crisis within the church to produce the proper reliance on biblical concepts and processes; in that case, it may well be too late. Rather, if in all matters the correct and primary focus on God's will as found in the Scriptures is kept, then the procedures of the council will be tuned to handle any more serious concerns.
Praise to God!
Thank you, thank you--- you said that so concisely!
I'm betting the religious leaders' speech was polished and didn't smack of cynicism and bitterness... that would be too obvious. On the contrary, I'm betting the sinners (of whom I am chief) probably did talk like that. I'd rather be put outside the camp with Jesus.
I guess it would depend on the motive. If the motive was just to hear the Word, then fine, I'll endure some hardship. If the motive is to punish myself to bring myself closer to God or whatever, to give myself a sense of piety or self-denial, no that will not do me any good and may in fact do me harm, not just physically, but spiritually too.
Making your relationship with Jesus your own. Each person comes to know
Christ in their own and unique way. One of the biggest problems I see, are people who have accepted Christ as their Savior, but don't
really have a close, intimate, personal relationship with Him. I submit to
you today that a large percentage of Christians, people who are saved and
going to Heaven, look at being a Christian the same way they look at being
part of the Tuesday-night bowling league. It is part of their life, it is
not their life.
Look,
just tell me where you go to church so I'll know not to go there.
Thank you and have a nice day!
That totally applies to "spiritual food" too!
Some people come to church hungry to be fed the word. They hear it, receive it, do it, and their lives are changed forever.
Others come because they feel obligated and don't really know what they're being fed. They don't hear it, can't receive it, never do it, and then wonder why others are getting blessed and they're not.
After reading your post, I'm left wondering what importance you would put on the message you would hear in either setting - whether the high church or the ultra modern church. I suggest if you're putting the emphasis on the look of the building, (or how comfortable you are, or if the parking lot is convenient), your priorities are wrong.
I agree we're human and our emotions can be manipulated by a clever showman. The bible calls us to be discerning.
If ambience were the main consideration, the Big Tent Revivals of olden days--and the more recent packed stadiums of Billy Graham, Harvest Crusade and others would not occur.
Meanwhile, it is good to not let the house of the Lord fall into disrepair; ancient Israel certainly was not permitted mediocrity in this area.
Yet the mediocrity of the sermon is a far greater concern, far more often.
You're talking about using your senses to choose the worship service you attend. I'm suggesting that the content of the message shared from the pulpit should be most critical in the decision. Is it a clear and complete message of the gospel?
Other criteria are simply personal preference. The article that initiated this discussion seems to be more about manipulation of the senses to "project a mood." Ummm, I think that is what a showman does.
Touche'
No place to sit and no place to park and that church will lose a huge number of visitors.
You're right of course, in this consumer-oriented society it is often more about comfort. Thankfully, in this country at least, most churches allow both a place to park your car and your butt!
Oh, but to consider sitting at the feet of Jesus or Paul. Wouldn't that be enough to consider some inconvenience to hear the message they would have to share?
Then you don't understand humans very well. Each is an individual (ah ha! a conservative tenant) and each reacts differently to distractions, stimuli and their environment.
Some can happily worship in a cement truck full of cats and bricks going 100 miles an hour over speed bumps.
Many, can't.
In my life, I've grown to associate the 'cats in dump trucks' churches with bad people and evil events and misery--- not worship. I've grown to associate the soft lights, quiet churches with good people and pleasant events and as close to worship someone like me will ever get.
And that's saying a lot.
The message is the same, my interpretation of the message is directly resultant to my level of misery while hearing it. It's also called triggering.
Sue me. It's the way my brain is wired.
7. Coffee. Nothing can keep the johnnies...err the people from coming back the next week faster than bad coffee. I recommend Starbucks or, if you can't afford it, a high-end coffee service brand. Selling 'fair trade' coffee at a steep markup can make your sheep feel virtuous and add to your bottom line err... help you fulfill your mission. People enjoy drinking from ceramic mugs rather than from styrofoam cups. These should have the church's logo and can be sold in the bookstore for an additional budget bump. Just remember, people love coffee and they're willing to pay through the nose for it. Why let Starbucks get the glory when you could be diverting it to the Glory of God?
As I said in an earlier post, there isn't anyone (or extremely rare) on these threads who wouldn't leave their currently air-conditioned church if that church voted to permanently end air conditioning to use the money saved on behalf of more outreach.
That's just my opinion. I doubt anyone would test it.
The question is this: Wouldn't it make sense, then, for churches to have air conditioning?
(If they want to attract people, that is.)
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