Anti-Catholicism: A Phony Issue [Religion Forum Piñata]

The majority of American Catholics,

Dear Ms. Jacoby,

"Truth is not subject to a majority vote." - Cardinal Ratzinger

Why just yesterday, I read that Catholics were a cult and a threat to America that should be silenced. It took a while to quit laughing.

Obviously Susan Jacoby has never read the FR religion forum. I have seen 'Papist' so often here that I honestly didn't know that it was a derogatory term.

Let's throw in "prots", "separated brethren", "heretics" while we are at it. If someone does not like heated debates and to have their doctrines or dogmas questioned stick to the caucus threads. It's so silly this constant cry of "catholic bashing" every time someone points out the inconsistencies in your sect.

** I suspect that beating up on the WaPo is going to release something significantly less pleasant than candy.**

I suspect that beating up on the Catholic Church is going to release something significantly less pleasant than candy.

Thanks for sharing, have a nice day.

what's wrong with separated brethren? We are separated by our beliefs yet brothers and sisters in Christ. I don't get the objection to that phrase.....

As I understand it, the author's point is that a statistical minority of Catholics are social conservatives, therefore it's technically incorrect to claim that any bigotry is anti-Catholic and not anti-conservative Catholic.

Out of curiosity, do you believe EVERYTHING the Washington Compost says or just the Catholic bashing?

Something you may or may not have considered about this article, it is actually a hit piece on ALL devout Christians. If you substituted "evangelical Protestant" for Catholic and Christian Coalition (or a similar group) for Catholic League, the article would pretty much read the same way. The mainstream media hates you guys just as much as they hate us.

The evangelicals that I know and admire are in TOTAL AGREEMENT with Catholics on moral issues like abortion and homosexuality. When are you going to realize that Catholics are not your enemies?

"It's so silly this constant cry of "catholic bashing" every time someone points out the inconsistencies in your sect."

And to what inconsistencies are you referring?

"Something you may or may not have considered about this article, it is actually a hit piece on ALL devout Christians."

Correct!

As I understand it, the author's point is that a statistical minority of Catholics are social conservatives, therefore it's technically incorrect to claim that any bigotry is anti-Catholic and not anti-conservative Catholic.

I wonder where people come up with these "statistics" that some spout off... I've been a Catholic for awhile, and I think MOST Catholics are socially conservative.

Regards

This in itself is an act of anti-Catholic bigotry, denying the Church the right to define itself.

Precisely. Sort of like defining "Protestants" as "anyone not Catholic or Orthodox".

this political liberal author is actually arguing in favor of committing bigotry against a statistical minority.

Looks like you buried the article you yourself posted quite effectively.

However, the main thrust of the article is wrong too. The liberal Catholics -- who use contraception, divorce and remarry, consider abortion a right, ignore the Pope and the dogmata of the Church, but insist on receiving the Communion -- are themselves a part of the anti-Catholic force. Naturally, the anti-Catholics love them, -- it's their fifth column.

How many times do I have to tell you that if you come up with an acceptable alternative epithet, I'll be happy to use it?

This is getting ridiculous! I'm all but begging you to "define yourselves". Don't BMW about it, just do it! Please!

defining "Protestants" as "anyone not Catholic or Orthodox" [is likewise wrong]

On this, I agree. Given the state of affairs in Protestantism thus defined, I think it would be good if particular communities of faith that emerged following the Reformation started defining themselves in terms that decribe them positively, such as Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.

As a lifelong Catholic I can remember experiencing anti-Catholic bias as early as first grade.

I take it as a compliment because I've always believed that people hate you hardest when you're doing something right.

"Prots" is just shorthand for "Protestants" and is no more derogatory than the full form of the word. It is also no more derogatory than "RCs" as shorthand for Roman Catholics.

"Separated brethren" is actually a term of endearment. As Catholics, we do not believe that Protestants have what we call the fullness of the Faith just as many Protestants may not believe that we have the fullness of their reformed faith. While there is a separation which reflects theological disagreement, "separated brethren" emphasizes the "brethren" part. If you are Protestant and want to regard Catholics like me as "separated brethren", I will not be offended that you regard me as a brother albeit separated.

"Heretic" is the only strong term of the three of which you complain. Catholics and Protestants differ on matters of theology. Otherwise there would simply be one big Christian Faith. WITHIN Protestantism, there are hundreds (charitably speaking) of differing confessions, each with its own insights on what it regards as the meaning of Scripture. The strong term for differences of belief within Christianity is heresy. It may be aimed (accurately or not) at Catholics or Protestants by those belonging to the other group. It may also be used in intramurals.

Whether or not some specific argument or remark constitutes "Catholic bashing" almost certainly depends on the context and the substance of the remark. Likewise, does that standard apply to whether some remark is Protestant-bashing.

I DO suspect that Ms. Jacoby is neither Catholic nor Protestant but rather an agnostic or atheist who wants to start a fight between those like thee and those like me. Let's frustrate the heck out of her by not rising to her bait. I ought not to be here to question the doctrines of Christianity which you hold dear. Nor ought you to be here to question the doctrines of Catholicism. Until we have earned the right to squabble publicly for the entertainment of the Ms. Jacobys of this world, we should agree to disagree respectfully with one another where we must disagree and work together, arm in arm without compromising the essential beliefs of either of us, on the overwhelming majority of beliefs, practices and policies on which we agree with one another and disagree with the Susan Jacobys.

I post this as one who enthusiastically refought the 30 Years' War here giving as offensively as I got until it occurred to me that you really are my brethren separated doctrinally on a few matters to be sure but brethren nonetheless. For what it is worth, the very best Christian I ever knew was a very old-fashioned "hard shell" Methodist woman who was my Catholic mother's lifelong best friend. Her name was Hilda. I earned a sense of shame realizing that in bashing Protestants, I was really also bashing Hilda. Whatever God's plan may be it just has to be better than yours or mine. It apparently includes the divisions among Christians over which He wept in the Garden at Gethsemane. Let us not unnecessarily add reasons for His tears.

If you want to homeschool your kids or send them to reformed Christian Academies, I have your back as I hope you have mine when I have homeschooled my kids or when we Catholics send our kids to Catholic schools including those owned, controlled and taught by the parents themselves.

Although there is something of a tradition of anti-Catholicism at certain levels of American society at many times in history, we Catholics have thrived here and have been more likely to be treated well by the majority Protestants in the US than otherwise. Now, our mutual enemies of the secularist variety would like to extend their hostility against Catholics to also begin a tentative persecution of other Christians who hold conservative social beliefs. Again I've got your back as I hope you have got mine. I don't think your Saviour and mine wants Ms. Jacoby to win over either of us.

Finally, as a "papist" and a proud "Romish papist" at that, feel free to call me one. The truth is not our enemy. The truth will set us free.