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To: markomalley
Matthew. 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church,

One method of Hermeneutical understanding of Matthew 16:18
is to do a word study of all the scriptures which were then known
as the Holy Word of G-d when Y'shua spoke these words.
This will allow one to understand that all of the Holy Word of G-d
was inspired by YHvH; the whole counsel of G-d.

The only conclusion that one can come to unless you are
predisposed to believe in man's tradition over the Holy Word of G-d
is that Y'shua was speaking of himself as the "Rock "
e.g.

Genesis 49:24 But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed
[Or archers will attack...will shoot...will remain...will stay] supple,
because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,

Deuteronomy 32:3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock , his works are perfect, and all his ways are
just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

Deuteronomy 32:15 ..... He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Saviour.

Deuteronomy 32:30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten
thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless
the LORD had given them up?

Deuteronomy 32:31 For their rock is not like our Rock , as even our enemies concede

Deuteronomy 32:32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness.

1 Samuel 2:2 "There is no-one holy [Or no Holy One] like the LORD;
there is no-one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2 He said: "The LORD is my Rock , my fortress and my deliverer;

2 Samuel 22:3 my God is my Rock , in whom I take refuge, my shield and the
horn [Horn here symbolises strength.] of my salvation.
He is my stronghold, my refuge and my saviour — from violent men you save me.

2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

2 Samuel 22:47 "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God, the Rock , my Saviour!

2 Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me:
'When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,

Psalm 18:31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

Psalm 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God my Saviour!

Psalm 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 42:9 I say to God my Rock , "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

Psalm 78:35 They remembered that God was their Rock , that God Most High was their Redeemer.

Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Saviour.'

Psalm 92:15 ..... "YHvH is upright; he is my Rock , and there is no wickedness in him."

Psalm 95:1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

Psalm 144:1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock , who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy
One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to
execute judgment; O Rock , you have ordained them to punish.

b'shem Y'shua
8 posted on 03/18/2007 3:46:58 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHVH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya’aqob.”Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt

Wonderfully done.


10 posted on 03/18/2007 4:33:39 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS ABLE; LOVE GOD WHOLLY, HIM & HIS KINGDOM 1ST)
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To: XeniaSt

this is pretty much what markomalley said...you just reiterated his point.


14 posted on 03/18/2007 6:54:48 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: XeniaSt; Dr. Eckleburg
If you actually read my response, you'd note what I said, precisely:
Could you share where a person was named Peter (Kipa, Petros, Cephas, Tsuwr) prior to that point?

(Having said that, I do realize that God identifies Himself as "Rock" several points in the OT, but the way I read it, the expression is primarily used as an adjective, with the following exceptions:

  • 2Sa 23:3 (Rock of Israel)
  • Isa 30:29 (Rock of Israel [RSV])
  • Isa 44:8 (There is no Rock[RSV])
  • Hab 1:12 (and thou, O Rock[RSV])

And even those do not reflect so much a "Proper Name" as a metaphor (imho).

Bottom line, you didn't need to repeat a superset of those citations I already referenced. To do so insults the work that I already cited. Further, you missed several of the citations where Tsuwr was translated as some other word than "rock" in the KJV. I have a feeling that you must be using a Young's Concordance (that is a weakness of that particular tome).

BTW, as a point of interest, petros is the Greek, kipa is the Aramaic, cephas is the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic, and Tsuwr is an English transliteration of the Hebrew.

First point of clarification, I do not contest (nor would I ever be so presumptuous to do so) that God identifies Himself as "the Rock" throughout the OT. If you would be so good as to read my post #4, you would see that I clearly make that statement.

Second point of clarification, the question I asked in post #4 was,

Could you share where a person was named Peter (Kipa, Petros, Cephas, Tsuwr) prior to that point?

That question was prompted due to XeniaSt's comment, That is not a true statement !

This comment was made in response to the following in the original article:

Even as He conferred the authority, Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter; i.e., “rock.” The name “Peter” had never existed prior to this divine event in Cesarea Philippi.

So if you could attempt to answer the question I posed in post #4 or, again, above, I would appreciate it.

Please to note, I, again, am not questioning that God calls Himself 'the Rock' at many points throughout the OT. I am also not trying to get into a petros vs petra argument here. Although we might disagree about the interpretation of petros and petra, I am not arguing that 'petra' is a much larger scale than 'petros.' So I would appreciate you answering my question...not answering some other question that you may attempt to read into my words. Thank you.

18 posted on 03/18/2007 7:57:59 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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