Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies.
Locked on 04/13/2007 1:17:11 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:

Childish behavior



Skip to comments.

More Evidence Pius XII Was Not Hitler's Pope - German Files Point to a Russian Plot
Zenit News Agency ^ | April 2, 2007

Posted on 04/03/2007 2:32:00 AM PDT by NYer

ROME, APRIL 2, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Adolf Hitler's No. 1 enemy was the Vatican's secretary of state, Eugenio Pacelli, future Pope Pius XII, according to documents recently found in Europe.

In an article published last Thursday by La Repubblica, reporter Marco Ansaldo announced that he has a dossier on Pius XII that complements documentation found in the Vatican Archives.

According to the newly discovered documents, Pius XII was considered an enemy of the Third Reich. Memos and letters unearthed at a depot used by the Stasi, the East German secret police, show that Nazi spies within the Vatican were concerned at the Pope's efforts to help displaced Poles and Jews.

One document from the head of Berlin's police force tells Joachim von Ribbentrop, the Third Reich's foreign minister, that the Catholic Church was providing assistance to Jews "both in terms of people and financially."

Russia's motives

In a commentary on the new documents, Sister Margherita Marchione, author and expert on Pius XII, explains the campaign against the Pope was the work of the Soviets.

"Russia's plans were to control Europe after the war. The only outspoken obstacle to Russia's plan in Europe was the Catholic Church," Sister Marchione wrote.

"The first attacks claiming that the Church had endorsed silently the atrocities of the Nazis came from Communist Russia," she explained. "Soon to control Poland, and other vast areas in Eastern Europe, Russia saw the need to break the loyalty to the Pope of Catholic majorities in those countries.

"The plan was a simple one: convince everyone that the Pope supported the hated Nazis during the war and, therefore, neither he nor the Church could be trusted after the war. The destruction of the Church would leave the field wide open for Russian influence and control."


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Judaism; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: anticatholicism; bigotry; catholic; germany; hitler; nazis; piusxii; prejudice; revisionism; sanitized
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 801-826 next last

1 posted on 04/03/2007 2:32:02 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

The evidence continues to mount.


2 posted on 04/03/2007 2:33:02 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Roosha plotting Marxists—Surprise!!


3 posted on 04/03/2007 3:29:19 AM PDT by wildcatf4f3 (Find out what brand the Ethiopians are drinking and send a case to all my generals.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
According to the newly discovered documents,

Wow --- these will probably rival the infamously fraudulent Isidorian Decretals and the Donation of Constantine in credibility.

And those quotes from Sister Marchione --- like she's going to be some kind of objective credible source.

Pope Pius XII brought Hitler to power with the Concordat that he negotiated for the RCC and all your attempts to try to rewrite history are useless exercises in futility.

BTW Just what did he do to stop the massacre of 800,000 Serbs during the War by that Catholic Ustasha and their Vatican facilitators?

And those Rat Lines of Nazi war criminals after the war ran right through Pius XII's Vatican. He certainly wasn't an enemy of these Third Reich criminals, was he??? Get Real.

4 posted on 04/03/2007 5:38:58 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Pope Pius XII brought Hitler to power with the Concordat that he negotiated for the RCC and all your attempts to try to rewrite history are useless exercises in futility.

You're the one rewriting history.

Pope Pius XII enjoyed an excellent reputation for helping the Jews both during and after the war. It wasn't until the communist-inspired play, "The Deputy," was released in the early '60s that the smear campaign against him began.

"Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.

Albert Einstein
Time Magazine, 12/23/40

**************************************

The charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that in 1944 he was open to the grace of God which led him into the Catholic faith. As his baptismal name, he took the same one Pius had, Eugenio, as his own. Later Israel Eugenio Zolli wrote a book entitled, Why I Became a Catholic.

**************************************

"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all... the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a Christian peace."

The New York Times editorial
12/25/41 (Late Day edition, p. 24)

**************************************

"This Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent... Pope Pius expresses as passionately as any leader on our side the war aims of the struggle for freedom when he says that those who aim at building a new world must fight for free choice of government and religious order. They must refuse that the state should make of individuals a herd of whom the state disposes as if they were lifeless things."

The New York Times editorial
12/25/42 (Late Day edition, p. 16)


5 posted on 04/03/2007 5:54:04 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
Did Pope Pius XII ever place Hitler's Mein Kampf on the Vatican's Index of Forbidden Books?
6 posted on 04/03/2007 6:05:30 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
So you'd rather stand with the communists than be proved wrong? Look at the company you're keeping - why would any conservative side with Marxists?

You've bought into the slanders created out of whole cloth by the Soviets and by Hochhuth, son of an SS officer and a dedicated communist himself. This reminds me of the Sacco and Vanzetti supporters who continued to "believe" against all evidence, or those who just couldn't believe that Casement's "Black Diaries" were real and therefore took refuge in the claim that they were forgeries. More "true believers" from the anarchist and anti-capitalist crowds.

The truth is finally coming to light, despite the best efforts of the Marxists to slander the Catholic church.

7 posted on 04/03/2007 6:08:58 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
And your point is . . . ? The Index Librorum Prohibitorum overwhelmingly consists of theological works and those which corrupt personal morals. It doesn't include frankly atheistic authors because those are excluded by their nature from the reading of the faithful. Mein Kampf was considered for inclusion at one point but was still in discussion by the Congregation when the war broke out. The Communist Manifesto didn't make it either. The Pope, btw, had no power to place a book on the Index by decree - it had to go through the Congregation.
8 posted on 04/03/2007 6:18:40 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Before jumping into condemnation of the failings of the Catholic Church, I would like to first hear about what other Christian Churches did about Hitler, his persecution of the Jews, and Mein Kampf. I’m particularly interested in the actions taken by your church and its leaders, Uncle Chip.


9 posted on 04/03/2007 6:27:06 AM PDT by Titanites
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
So you'd rather stand with the communists than be proved wrong? Look at the company you're keeping - why would any conservative side with Marxists?

So all of those who fought against the Third Reich that had been brought to power with the assistance of Pope Pius XII were all Marxists???

10 posted on 04/03/2007 6:32:28 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
No - you're standing with the Marxists now, though, in sticking to false beliefs that were planted by Marxists after the war in an attempt to slander the Church.

Contemporary accounts make it clear that Pope Pius and the Church fought harder against Naziism than any other organization in Europe. Perhaps they could have prevailed if more other churches had helped them, instead of hanging pictures of Schickelgruber in the place of honor in their sanctuaries.

11 posted on 04/03/2007 6:38:15 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Titanites

No other church signed that Concordat that brought Hitler to power —— just the Vatican.


12 posted on 04/03/2007 6:41:46 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Pope Pius XII brought Hitler to power with the Concordat

The Church did not crown Hitler. He was well established by that time. This Concordat was to secure the rights of Catholics to practice their faith. The text in German and english translations of the text abound.

History will always remember Mit Brennender Sorge as the document that dealt with the Reich, well before the start of hostilities and before the Kristallnacht. It was written by the future Pope Pius XII, and written in German and required to be read in every Church in Germany. It was kept secret until the release, so it could be read in every Church unhindered.

The collusion between Marxists and the media in the 1960 to tar the name of Pius XII is well established outside Church circles. The corruption after the war even extended to the Church, and allowed some Nazis to escape to South America where there, they did not escape justice. For what Pius XII really believed, read his Christmas Messages during the war.

Christmas 1942, Pius XII:
A great part of mankind, and, let Us not shirk from saying it, not a few who call themselves Christians, have to some extent their share in the collective responsibility for the growth of error and for the harm and the lack of moral fiber in the society of today.
...
Mankind owes that vow to those numberless exiles whom the hurricane of war has torn from their native land and scattered in the land of the stranger; who can make their own the lament of the Prophet: "Our inheritance is turned to aliens; our house to strangers." Mankind owes that vow to the hundreds of thousands of persons who, without any fault on their part, sometimes only because of their nationality or race, have been consigned to death or to a slow decline.
...
Mankind owes that vow to the flood of tears and bitterness, to the accumulation of sorrow and suffering, emanating from the murderous ruin of the dreadful conflict and crying to Heaven to send down the Holy Spirit to liberate the world from the inundation of violence and terror.


A voice in the wilderness indeed.
13 posted on 04/03/2007 6:43:32 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother

No dear -— I stand with the truth and those who are willing to admit it -— painful as it may be. Are you saying that anyone who tells the truth about the Vatican is a Marxist??? Even Catholic historians admit that Pope John XXIII had Marxist leanings. You can’t hide behind that cloak forever.


14 posted on 04/03/2007 6:47:42 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Just go ahead and bring up Alexander VI while you're at it, and get it out of the way. We're discussing Pope Pius and his valiant struggle against the Nazis despite having no (temporal) divisions, as Uncle Joe Stalin observed. Not John XXIII or the failings of the Church or its leaders at other times.

The facts are against your position, and more facts are coming out daily at this point. It's like the Venona papers turning a lot of parlor pinks' ideas on their heads. As East German Stasi materials continue to be examined, more of the covert operations against the Church can be expected to come out. It will make the manufactured fiction that Pope Pius collaborated with the Nazis harder and harder to believe, but I'm sure you'll stick to your guns to the bitter end.

15 posted on 04/03/2007 7:02:49 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Did Pope Pius XII ever place Hitler's Mein Kampf on the Vatican's Index of Forbidden Books?

Did he stop beating his wife?

Rather than address the testimony of the pope's contemporaries, like that of the NY Times, Einstein and the chief rabbi of Rome, you've decided to drop a non-sequitur. Nevertheless, I'll address it.

The Index wasn't meant to be an infallible list of every book containing anti-Christian ideologies. It's a fairly short list, and it wasn't even kept by the pope. The job of maintaining the list was the job of the office of the Inquisition, as far as I know. Regardless, the Index was pretty much defunct by WWII, as the last non-fiction entry is Satre in 1948, at least according to this site.

Marx isn't listed in the Index either, but that doesn't mean communism was approved by the Church. Marxism (and all forms of Socialism - like Nazism) was denounced many times in papal encyclicals, such as the Syllabus of Errors, On Atheistic Communism, and On the Doctrines of the Modernists.

16 posted on 04/03/2007 7:22:55 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
And those quotes from Sister Marchione --- like she's going to be some kind of objective credible source.

There's always got to be one pro-communist, Catholic-hater on these threads, squealing like a stuck pig whenever the truth comes out.

Thanks for filling that niche so perfectly.
17 posted on 04/03/2007 7:30:17 AM PDT by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Pope Pius XII brought Hitler to power with the Concordat that he negotiated for the RCC

Wrong. Hitler was already in power.

The Concordat was the Holy See's attempt to get some sort of guarantee for the rights of Catholics in return for peacefully dismantling the Catholic political party, as required by the Nazis (peacefully, or otherwise).

Does your "Christianity" support slandering an innocent man? Because that's exactly what you're doing ...

18 posted on 04/03/2007 7:51:29 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
No other church signed that Concordat that brought Hitler to power

Hitler became chancellor January 31, 1933.

The concordat was signed July 20, 1933.

Try to tell the truth, even if you can't get mileage against Rome from it.

19 posted on 04/03/2007 7:54:50 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
No other church signed that Concordat that brought Hitler to power —— just the Vatican

No, they didn't sign the Catholic condordat which protected the right of Catholics to practice their faith in Germany. The Protestants signed their own agreements.

Now, instead of dodging, please tell us what your church did to save the Jews?

20 posted on 04/03/2007 7:55:50 AM PDT by Titanites
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

That should read:

Now, instead of dodging, please tell us what your church and its leaders did to save the Jews?


21 posted on 04/03/2007 7:58:14 AM PDT by Titanites
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
No other church signed that Concordat that brought Hitler to power

The Nazi-inspired 'German Christian' movement

There was no comparable perversion of Christianity in the Catholic Church in Germany; the bishops wouldn't permit it.

22 posted on 04/03/2007 8:01:12 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Pope Pius XII brought Hitler to power with the Concordat that he negotiated for the RCC and all your attempts to try to rewrite history are useless exercises in futility.

Your mind is obviously totally closed on this subject so this is not an attempt to bring light to your own tortured universe. Rather, it's for the benefit of any lurkers who may be taken in by this swill. This is Cornwell's hypothesis as published in his book "Hitler's Pope".

The Concordat between the Holy See and the German Reich was concluded in July 1933, while Hilter was appointed Chancellor in January 1933. January 30, to be exact. This completed his rise to power which had been occurring for some considerable time previously.

It was no coincidence that Hitler's appointment preceded the Concordat for the Vatican foresaw possible difficulties ahead and wished to secure the rights of Catholics to freely practice their religion. A practice which continues to this day, for the Vatican attempts, as far as is possible, to maintain cordial relations with all countries for precisely this purpose.

Intemperate outbursts like yours really only serve to spend any capital you may have regarding credibility and good sense.

23 posted on 04/03/2007 8:04:59 AM PDT by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Dominick

The media only goes after these Pope claims to cover up the ideaologies that truly promoted and enabled Hitler;Darwinism and Islam.


24 posted on 04/03/2007 8:46:33 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: kawaii; Religion Moderator
This is out of hand. This person is taking his anti-catholic attack from another thread and followed me here.
25 posted on 04/03/2007 9:17:23 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Dominick; Religion Moderator

Actually if you’d bother to read I was defending the Pope...


26 posted on 04/03/2007 9:22:41 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

Brother, would you mind rephrasing #24. I’ve read it several times, and I’m really not sure what it means.


27 posted on 04/03/2007 9:27:25 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: kawaii; Dominick
Following a poster around the forum(s) inciting the same argument over and over again can be considered "trolling" - and that never ends well.

On the other hand, evading a counter-argument by other means - such as filing abuse reports (which didn't happen here) asking for counter-arguments to be removed - or by starting a new, clean thread to prosecute the very same argument also can incite flame wars or cause resentments.

So please pick a thread and make your case and then leave it alone unless a third party brings it up again. That way everyone has clean hands.

28 posted on 04/03/2007 9:29:45 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ArrogantBustard; Dominick; Religion Moderator

Post clarified: The Pope had nothing to do with Hitler’s rise to power nor the actions of the Nazis. The media loves to harp on these aledged connections so as to distract from the fact that Hitler got most of his ideas from Darwinism, and collaborated extensively with Muslims to advance his goals. Thus they invent connections with the Vatican so as to distract from the true associations between Nazism and the media darlings; Islam and Darwinism.


29 posted on 04/03/2007 9:37:47 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

My post on this thread had nothing to do with posts on any other threads. It’s not realated at all, and I’m hardly following anybody.


30 posted on 04/03/2007 9:38:59 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

Thank you, sir. Well said.

Part of the reason this forum exists is the MSM’s allergy to the truth.


31 posted on 04/03/2007 9:45:53 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator
Following a poster around the forum(s) inciting the same argument over and over again can be considered "trolling" - and that never ends well.

On the other hand, evading a counter-argument by other means - such as filing abuse reports (which didn't happen here) asking for counter-arguments to be removed - or by starting a new, clean thread to prosecute the very same argument also can incite flame wars or cause resentments.

Good and wise advice. Please knock me over the head with this (again), should I ever need it.

32 posted on 04/03/2007 10:28:54 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Campion
Hitler was already in power.

No --- he was tenuously in power at that time and in dire need of a Concordat to keep him there. And Pacelli's Vatican was only too willing to oblige by making their deal with the devil that guaranteed great financial benefits for the Vatican's prelates. And they enjoyed those benefits throughout the war without interruption.

Pacelli's Vatican was willing to secure the devil in power as long as it feathered their own nests at the same time. And this is Christianity to you???? Is this what you think that Christianity is all about???

Does your "Christianity" support slandering an innocent man?

Obviously your "Catholicism" is unable to discern the difference between innocence and guilt. How many Nazi war criminals escaped to South America through Pius XII's Vatican?

Did Pius XII ever either during the war or afterwards excommunicate those monsigneurs, cardinals, archbishops, priests who were collaborating with the Nazis? or did he reward them with a promotions for their service during the war, like Aloysius Stepinac, the Archbishop of the Ustasha, to whom he gave a cardinals hat after his long service to the Ustasha?

How far are you willing to go to try to resurrect his reputation?

33 posted on 04/03/2007 11:18:56 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
You must be appallingly ignorant with regard to German history.

The Concordat was signed in July of 1933. That is after Hitler's appointment by Hindenburg (1/30/33), after the Reichstag Fire (2/27/33), and after the Ermächtigungsgesetz (enabling legislation) that gave Hitler dictatorial powers. Hitler had also already arrested opposition delegates. And Britain, France and Italy had already agreed to the Four-Power Pact with Germany in June.

That is not "tenuously in power".

Moreover, the concordat guaranteed freedom of religion to Catholics in Germany, including the Nazis not shutting down the parochial schools, in exchange for an agreement that Catholic clergy would refrain from politics and the dissolution of a Catholic political party. The so-called "great financial benefits"? -- the right to keep collecting the church tithes. Wow.

Of course the Nazis violated it almost before the ink was dry.

34 posted on 04/03/2007 12:10:07 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Titanites
Now, instead of dodging, please tell us what your church and its leaders did to save the Jews?

It sent soldiers to fight against the Third Reich, not blessings to its prelates who collaborated with it. It sought justice for Nazi war criminals rather than helping them to escape from justice into South America through Pius XII's Vatican Rat Lines.

35 posted on 04/03/2007 12:21:20 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Pope Pius XII brought Hitler to power with the Concordat that he negotiated for the RCC and all your attempts to try to rewrite history are useless exercises in futility.

That's false.

Regarding your tagline:

TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.

And you can't FIND it.

36 posted on 04/03/2007 12:24:13 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
It sent soldiers to fight against the Third Reich, not blessings to its prelates who collaborated with it. It sought justice for Nazi war criminals rather than helping them to escape from justice into South America through Pius XII's Vatican Rat Lines.

That sounds like what the government did. I was asking about the specific action of your specific church and its specific church leaders. What did they do? Or is the government your church?

37 posted on 04/03/2007 12:25:49 PM PDT by Titanites
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

The Concordat didn’t bring Hitler to power.


38 posted on 04/03/2007 12:26:32 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
Moreover, the concordat guaranteed freedom of religion to Catholics in Germany

And that guarantee was at whose expense??? At the expense of other people's religion, their freedom and their lives??? Your prelates were willing to sell others down the pike so that they could continue on unmolested??? And you think that God was pleased with this sell-out???

39 posted on 04/03/2007 12:29:54 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Can you explain ‘just war’ and justice from a New Testament standpoint with footnotes please?


40 posted on 04/03/2007 12:30:39 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
No --- he was tenuously in power at that time and in dire need of a Concordat to keep him there.

By July 1933, all other political parties in Germany had been banned and the Enabling Act (the Ermächtigungsgesetz) had been approved by the rump Reichstag, giving Hitler dictatorial powers.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

41 posted on 04/03/2007 12:33:14 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
Pacelli's Vatican was willing to secure the devil in power...

The devil Corporal already held all the power...all that remained was the death of Hindenberg, and the Gleischaltung. Indeed, by July 1933 the brownshirts had been deputized as law enforcement officers.

42 posted on 04/03/2007 12:35:39 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Titanites

And running rat lines for Nazi war criminals: Was that the calling of the Roman Catholic Church or just a special dispensation in Pius XII’s Vatican?


43 posted on 04/03/2007 12:36:44 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Your understanding of the period is demonstrably deficient (to be polite). You have no credibility on this topic.


44 posted on 04/03/2007 12:38:28 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: NYer
According to the newly discovered documents, Pius XII was considered an enemy of the Third Reich. Memos and letters unearthed at a depot used by the Stasi, the East German secret police, show that Nazi spies within the Vatican were concerned at the Pope's efforts to help displaced Poles and Jews.

One document from the head of Berlin's police force tells Joachim von Ribbentrop, the Third Reich's foreign minister, that the Catholic Church was providing assistance to Jews "both in terms of people and financially."

*************

It makes perfect sense.

45 posted on 04/03/2007 12:42:14 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Petronski
By July 1933, all other political parties in Germany had been banned and the Enabling Act (the Ermächtigungsgesetz) had been approved by the rump Reichstag, giving Hitler dictatorial powers.

The signing of the Concordat was a mere formality of a deal that had been made earlier. But you know that.

46 posted on 04/03/2007 12:43:05 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip
And that guarantee was at whose expense???

No one.

At the expense of other people's religion, their freedom and their lives???

No.

Your prelates were willing to sell others down the pike so that they could continue on unmolested???

No.

And you think that God was pleased with this sell-out???

There was no sell out.

Oh, and Pius XII saved 860,000 Jews from the Holocaust.

47 posted on 04/03/2007 12:44:01 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

It did not bring Hitler to power, but you knew that.


48 posted on 04/03/2007 12:44:57 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: kawaii
Can you explain ‘just war’ and justice from a New Testament standpoint with footnotes please?

Can you post a list of websites that document the atrocities of the Vatican-supported Ustasha against the Serbs during World War II, and then I'll get busy on it.

49 posted on 04/03/2007 12:47:58 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

You suggested that there was a plan to bring some people to justice, do you care to back up that claim with scripture, or are you fine to abandon Christianity for this thread?


50 posted on 04/03/2007 12:49:00 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 801-826 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson