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Pope Set to Make Mark on U.S. Church
Guardian Unlimited ^ | April 12, 2007 | ERIC GORSKI (AP Religion Writer)

Posted on 04/13/2007 6:54:57 AM PDT by Frank Sheed

Two years into his reign, Pope Benedict XVI is finally poised to make a major mark on American Catholicism with a string of key bishop appointments and important decisions about the future of U.S. seminaries and bishops' involvement in politics.

Benedict's election on April 19, 2005, shook liberals and comforted conservatives who expected a doctrinal hard-liner. So far, they have found an easier hand - and someone who has not made the United States much of a priority.

When Benedict has gained attention, it has mostly been on the world stage, focusing on the re-Christianization of Europe, Islam and mending relations with Orthodox Christians. He also has stressed universal themes of faith and reason.

``The last two years have been much quieter years as far as the papacy is concerned because you have a very different personality'' than John Paul II, said Monsignor Robert Wister, chairman of the church history department at Seton Hall University's School of Theology.

``Many Americans were surprised - some happily, some disappointed - that he did not turn into the pit bull of dogma. He is taking a very pastoral approach, and I think people resonate very positively with that.''

Yet America's turn may be coming. At the top of the list is a looming generational shift among the nation's bishops, whose decisions at the local level greatly affect Catholics in the pews and can carry national weight. For instance, church leaders recently closed parishes in Boston and New York, while the St. Louis archbishop has clashed with a heavily Polish parish over control of its assets.

Key appointments are expected in New York, Baltimore and Detroit, where cardinals have reached retirement age - 75. And retirements or appointments are likely in at least seven other archdioceses...

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: allyourzotrbelong2us; bishops; bxvi; catholicundead; fan; fridaythe13th; guinnessisgoodforyou; jackchick; molassesmiasma; monkeyfacerocks; monkeyfacerules; orthodoxy; penguinhumor; undeadthread; usepiscopate
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Comments?
1 posted on 04/13/2007 6:55:04 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
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To: NYer; narses; wagglebee; Coleus; sandyeggo; AnAmericanMother; Campion; Petronski; ninenot; ...

US Catholic Church Ping on expected changes to the Episcopate...


2 posted on 04/13/2007 6:57:04 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad)
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To: Frank Sheed
Comments?

IMO there's little worth commenting on, at least not until we see who he actually appoints. This one line in the article may be prescient, however:

So far, they have found an easier hand - and someone who has not made the United States much of a priority.

3 posted on 04/13/2007 6:58:23 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Frank Sheed

When is LA’s abp reaching retirement age?


4 posted on 04/13/2007 6:58:54 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Frank Sheed
Yet America's turn may be coming. At the top of the list is a looming generational shift among the nation's bishops, whose decisions at the local level greatly affect Catholics in the pews and can carry national weight. For instance, church leaders recently closed parishes in Boston and New York, while the St. Louis archbishop has clashed with a heavily Polish parish over control of its assets.

I think the author is simply repeating words he doesn't understand, like me singing a song in Polish.

And he uses "different than" instead of the correct "different from." I can't stand that.

5 posted on 04/13/2007 6:58:56 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: AnAmericanMother

I believe Huitzilopochtli has five years to go.


6 posted on 04/13/2007 6:59:27 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: AnAmericanMother

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Cardinal_Mahony

Born: 1936. He has until he is 75 which is 2011!


7 posted on 04/13/2007 7:01:50 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad)
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To: Tax-chick

I should check the First Things website to see what Fr. Richard has to say. He is usually shy and retiring, but we may get a quote from him!

;-o)


8 posted on 04/13/2007 7:05:17 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad)
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To: Tax-chick; AnAmericanMother

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=700

There is always something interesting brewing over at First Things!


9 posted on 04/13/2007 7:11:55 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad)
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And now, News from the morality front:

Church vandalism continues to spread across Italy

Naples, Apr. 12, 2007 (CWNews.com) - Vandals continue to spray-paint slogans on Italian churches, with the latest graffiti appearing on a church in Naples.

The slogan “Bagnasco, Ratzinger: shame on you!” was spray-painted in red on the church of St. Eligius the Great. The reference was to Archbishop Angelo Bagnasco, the president of the Italian bishops’ conference, and Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news).

Similar slogans have appeared during the past 10 days on the doors and walls of parish churches and other Catholic institutions in Genoa, Bologna, and Turin. The vandalism is a reaction to the Italian hierarchy’s public opposition to a legislative proposal that would give legal recognition to same-sex unions.


10 posted on 04/13/2007 7:15:41 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad)
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To: Frank Sheed

** a string of key bishop appointments and important decisions about the future of U.S. seminaries and bishops’ involvement in politics.**

Yes!


11 posted on 04/13/2007 7:23:24 AM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: Frank Sheed; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; ELS; Pyro7480; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

12 posted on 04/13/2007 7:25:45 AM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: Frank Sheed
Dear me. Long time to wait (although I guess not by the geological time standards of the Vatican).

(shouldn't it be "coinean marbh"?)

13 posted on 04/13/2007 7:27:50 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Alex Murphy

Actually, that was how I felt about JPII. He is known to have simply shrugged off the US as being out of control and beyond hope. JPII, despite our great hopes for him in 1979, did almost nothing to correct things in the Church here and did nothing about the US bishops until almost the very end, when a new nuncio was appointed. That nuncio started giving us some good bishops. But JPII was very much (too much, IMHO) into collegiality and prior to that did nothing in the face of poor performance or even defiance by bishops.

I think Benedict XVI is letting things proceed because they are actually improving, and he only has the opportunity to make changes as the bishops reach retirement age. So he does have some big challenges coming up, such as replacing Egan. Cardinal O’Connor went to the Vatican twice to plead with JPII not to appoint Egan, but JPII did so anyway. It will be interesting to see who BXVI looks to as his replacement.

That said, I haven’t been very impressed by some of his other picks - Wuerl and Neiderauer, for example. I believe the way it works is that the nuncio submits three names, and the Pope picks from among them. Of course, I don’t know who the other names were in either case! Maybe they were even worse...


14 posted on 04/13/2007 7:28:44 AM PDT by livius
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To: Salvation

The rochester diocese is firmly entrenched in the liberal agenda religion. It will take a while to filter down to me if there is a change in the wind. And our bishop was a very young man when appointed...


15 posted on 04/13/2007 7:31:30 AM PDT by tioga
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To: livius; Alex Murphy
Actually, that was how I felt about JPII. He is known to have simply shrugged off the US as being out of control and beyond hope. JPII, despite our great hopes for him in 1979, did almost nothing to correct things in the Church here and did nothing about the US bishops until almost the very end, when a new nuncio was appointed. That nuncio started giving us some good bishops. But JPII was very much (too much, IMHO) into collegiality and prior to that did nothing in the face of poor performance or even defiance by bishops.

************

Agreed, although the author paints a discouraging picture of Pope Benedict. I didn't see a lot in the article that was encouraging, but perhaps it is simply my own bad attitude today.

16 posted on 04/13/2007 7:33:33 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: livius
Actually, that was how I felt about JPII. He is known to have simply shrugged off the US as being out of control and beyond hope. JPII, despite our great hopes for him in 1979, did almost nothing to correct things in the Church here and did nothing about the US bishops until almost the very end, when a new nuncio was appointed. That nuncio started giving us some good bishops. But JPII was very much (too much, IMHO) into collegiality and prior to that did nothing in the face of poor performance or even defiance by bishops.

Had I posted that, I can think of a half-dozen FR Catholics who'd demand to have my head on a platter.

17 posted on 04/13/2007 7:34:12 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Tax-chick; Frank Sheed
Roger Cardinal Mahony has 1,415 days until his mandatory resignation letter is due on the Pope's desk.

That's 3.8 years.

18 posted on 04/13/2007 7:36:42 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Alex Murphy

You’re wrong there. Had you used that tone and limited your remarks to that scope, no one would have criticized you.


19 posted on 04/13/2007 7:37:54 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Salvation

I’m happy about this too.

Liberal American bishops need to be replaced, either directly or through attrition. Tough challenges are coming in the form of gay marriage, hospitals being forced to provide Plan B to rape victims, Catholic politicians who openly support abortion and a severe shortage of priests.

We need men who won’t bend to popular demand.


20 posted on 04/13/2007 7:38:26 AM PDT by kidd
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To: AnAmericanMother

Not soon enough.


21 posted on 04/13/2007 7:38:43 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Not soon enough.


22 posted on 04/13/2007 7:39:09 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: AnAmericanMother

See post 18.


23 posted on 04/13/2007 7:40:06 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Alex Murphy

If you’d posted anything that reasonable and fact-based, nobody would have said a word.


24 posted on 04/13/2007 7:42:40 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: wideawake
You’re wrong there. Had you used that tone and limited your remarks to that scope, no one would have criticized you.

LOL I beg to differ, and I have the FReepmails to prove it!

25 posted on 04/13/2007 7:43:14 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: wideawake
A Rosary a day
Makes Mahony go away?
26 posted on 04/13/2007 7:43:17 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Alex Murphy
LOL I beg to differ, and I have the FReepmails to prove it!

No sale.

27 posted on 04/13/2007 7:45:20 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: AnAmericanMother
LOL!

BTW, my Savannah-based s-i-l entered the Church this past Easter Vigil.

She had been raised in the Church of Christ denomination. Father and brother are ordained pastors in that community.

28 posted on 04/13/2007 7:47:33 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Tempus fugit!


29 posted on 04/13/2007 7:49:36 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: wideawake
Any symptoms of whiplash there? That's a bit of a change. We had a shakedown period that lasted about 3-4 months, and we were ultra-high Anglicans to begin with (as my dad says, "Up in the rafters with the bats" or "Up in the cheap seats.") Seriously, prayers for her and welcome.

I think the hardest thing for us converts is not the theology, but the little details that "everybody" (i.e. cradle Catholics) draw in with their mothers' milk and don't even have to think about. Like -- how much is considered appropriate as an offering when you sign up to have a Mass said for a relative?

I've gotten past looking out of the corners of my eyes to see what everybody else is doing. If I don't know . . . I just ask.

30 posted on 04/13/2007 7:53:58 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Frank Sheed; Campion
Michael Linton is head of the Division of Music Theory and Composition at Middle Tennessee State University.

"Can anything good come out of Murfreesboro?" (You say it, "Murfsbrruh," if you're a local.)

Interesting article, though, especially the connections between the Handel oratorios and the contemporaneous events. I had no idea!

31 posted on 04/13/2007 7:58:44 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: Tax-chick

That should be, “O Tempo, fuge!!!!!” (please)


32 posted on 04/13/2007 7:59:11 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Thank you. I knew my conjugation was incorrect, but I misplaced all my foreign verb tenses several moves ago, leaving me to chat with my Spanish-speaking neighbors in the Eternal Present.


33 posted on 04/13/2007 8:00:31 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: Alex Murphy; livius

Not me....Livius was right-on.


34 posted on 04/13/2007 8:08:36 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: Frank Sheed
Well, THAT's a novel and entertaining thesis . . . < snort >

. . . I've read a good deal about Handel in general and the Messiah in particular. The connection to Zadok is obvious to anybody who listens, the whole idea that it's anti-semitic is nonsense.

The English really did think of themselves as the new "chosen people" . . . I mean, think of the British-Israelites. This is more or less the period (he was about 20 years younger) when you had Sam Johnson roaring in big caps that he was a "TRUE BORN ENGLISHMAN!" . . . and that was the context that the English considered the Old Testament in. I don't think anti-semitism was really on their radar, other than the usual casual and dismissive attitude the English have always had to the non-English of any stripe. Certainly not important enough to make it the focus of an entire oratorio!

. . . wonder why the writer didn't zoom in on the fact that Handel was actually . . . oh the horror! . . . German.

35 posted on 04/13/2007 8:09:24 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Tax-chick
Actually, your conjugation was perfectly correct - for the present indicative.

. . . and I'm not SURE that mine is correct for the imperative and vocative . . . I didn't look it up.

36 posted on 04/13/2007 8:11:05 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Any symptoms of whiplash there?

Plenty.

But she's been married to my practicing Catholic brother for five years and attending Mass every Sunday for that time - even during the almost three years he's been away in Iraq.

The thing that really appealed to her, that really brought her over the wall, is the full doctrine of the Eucharist. It was completely alien to her tradition, but it intutively made sense to her.

And the fact that her parish has many other military wives her age who do things together - wholesome outings for the children, volunteer work, etc., has created a real feeling of community for her in the parish as well.

I also met and spoke with the Monsignor there when I stood godfather to my niece: a very solid, orthodox, no-nonsense guy - affable and sensitive to the concerns of young families.

37 posted on 04/13/2007 8:11:35 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: AnAmericanMother

That’s me, keepin’ it real in the present indicative!


38 posted on 04/13/2007 8:12:04 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: AnAmericanMother
When is LA’s abp reaching retirement age?

Not soon enough.
39 posted on 04/13/2007 8:13:17 AM PDT by Antoninus (Have you donated to FR yet? What are you waiting for?)
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To: wideawake
Bless her heart! She's got plenty of company for the trip.

Our Monsignor is a darling too. . . . a no-nonsense Irishman of the gruff but genial variety.

40 posted on 04/13/2007 8:16:31 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Tax-chick; AnAmericanMother
Actually, it would be: o tempus, fuge.

Tempus is a third declension noun (tempus, temporis) and forms its vocative identically to the nominative - hence o tempus.

41 posted on 04/13/2007 8:16:36 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
Servus!

I almost went with tempus . . . but couldn't remember if it was a 3rd declension or not.

I need to brush up on my Latin grammar . . . and my Greek grammar . . . and my Gaelic grammar . . . and while we're at it I need to review the English too . . . < g >

42 posted on 04/13/2007 8:18:41 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I’m going to eat some leftovers for lunch and go for a run, occasionally calling, “Hola! Que va?” to a neighbor.


43 posted on 04/13/2007 8:23:42 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: wideawake
She had been raised in the Church of Christ denomination. Father and brother are ordained pastors in that community.

You're very much mistaken. They could not have been "ordained pastors" in the CoC because the CoC doesn't have "ordained pastors" or ordained anything. It's "not authorized by scripture!"

44 posted on 04/13/2007 8:26:44 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ("Biqrovay 'eqqadesh, ve`al-penei khol-ha`am 'ekkaved.")
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To: Tax-chick
I'm going to walk my big dog down to the polo fields to work on her sight blinds.

Then I'll take the Puppy From Hell to the polo fields to do a few retrieves on a long line (I can't take them both together, there is too much competition for Mom and the Puppy From Hell won't stake out yet.)

Then I'll hit the Publix for some Friday sushi . . . have a nice run!

45 posted on 04/13/2007 8:27:12 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

They have polo fields where my parents live, too.


46 posted on 04/13/2007 8:27:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: Tax-chick
Don't know how I'd retriever train without 'em!

Plus, about this time when the ponies come back from Palm Beach, I can get as much riding time as I want exercising the ponies!

47 posted on 04/13/2007 8:28:36 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: trisham

There are scads of articles out there in the press (Newsweek, for example) painting a discouraging picture of BXVI, but I think they actually have little substance Iand are to marginalize him by simply dismissing him. Newsweek criticized him for not travelling enough, for example; what’s “enough,” and where is it written that any Pope has to go globe-trotting?

BXVI proceeds in a very slow and deliberate way, but he does proceed. He built up the case very carefully in Italy, for example, having a special study on the Church, legislation, and natural law, and then issuing a paper, so that the Italian bishops could then declare that anyone who voted for same-sex “marriage” was violating Church teachings and thus excommunicated. He is very thorough, and I think we’ll see the same thing here when he turns towards the US. But we’re in a difficult situation, with many difficult “leaders,” and I think he has to proceed carefully and with confidence that what he is doing is iron-clad from a doctrinal and canonical point of view.


48 posted on 04/13/2007 8:35:14 AM PDT by livius
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To: Zionist Conspirator
You're very much mistaken.

Not at all.

They could not have been "ordained pastors" in the CoC because the CoC doesn't have "ordained pastors" or ordained anything.

They do not have a rite of "ordination" like liturgical churches do, but the congregation elders do indeed formally choose pastors and give them pastoral authority in the congregation. And unless the congregation is extremely rural or old-fashioned, the elders insist on having as a pastor someone who has completed biblical studies at an institution they approve of. In the case of my s-i-l's brother, Faulkner University in Montgomery.

It's "not authorized by scripture!"

The elders and deacons theoretically use Paul's admonishment's in Timothy as their guide for selecting pastors - considering a well-educated man a man "apt to teach."

49 posted on 04/13/2007 8:36:13 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Alex Murphy

I think there’s room for the analysis of any Pope’s activities. After all, he’s one of the most important public figures in the world and what he does (or doesn’t do) certainly has major consequences.


50 posted on 04/13/2007 8:38:08 AM PDT by livius
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