Posted on 04/18/2007 11:20:10 AM PDT by Salvation
How oddly interesting! Why, my copy of “The Faith of Millions” by O’Brien only has 416 pages! Funny how the quote you cite is allegedly found on pages 543 and 544 of a 416 page book...
**How oddly interesting! Why, my copy of “The Faith of Millions” by O’Brien only has 416 pages! Funny how the quote you cite is allegedly found on pages 543 and 544 of a 416 page book...**
Hmmmm — LOL!
I had no idea you were such an important person. I should have showed you more respect. I'm sorry.
"But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." Faith of Millions, pp. 400 and 401, by the Reverend John A. O'Brien, PH.D., Copyright 1938, published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington Indiana
this debate has really sunk into the juvenile.
I'm a completely insignificant person.
But I did point out your grave error in translation earlier and you not only failed to address that error, but repeated it again.
Your tone now suggests that you intend to continue ignoring the gaping hole in your argument rather than addressing it frankly. You are translating Greek the way a tourist translates his dinner menu using a traveler's phrasebook.
Reality: You do not have a sufficient command of Koine Greek to draw exegetical conclusions from it. You are unable to distinguish a possessive genitive from a partitive genitive. That is a very basic gap in Greek comprehension.
Learn Greek properly before you argue from the Greek.
I have a better idea. Why don't you just explain to all of us what my mistake is....pointing it out specifically...and then we will be able to correct it.....
Your tone now suggests that you intend to continue ignoring the gaping hole in your argument rather than addressing it frankly.
Your tone suggests that I have much to learn....and I am eagerly awaiting your instructions.
We should take the Bible seriously.
I do,and I believe many Catholics on FR do.
It is overly simplistic to ask whether we take the Bible literally or figuratively.
The Bible should be examined in the idiom under which it would have been intended and understood for its original audience. This requires an enormous amount of scholarship in ancient literature, history, philosophy, culture, and world religions. Each original audience would have had a very specific reaction to each specific writing.
Asking whether the Bible should be taken literally or figuratively is like asking whether one should load one’s toner cartidge with green toner or red toner. One needs a full range of color, and it needs to be adapted to the original intention of the photographer.
If you would like some excellent preaching and teaching, visit the sermon store at Redeemer.com and download the 21 free sermons. I bought an iPod just so I could listen to this guy.
So....I would need “an enormous amount of scholarship in ancient literature, history, philosophy culture, and world religions” to understand the Bible?
I’m doomed.
And I don’t even have an iPod.
The end is near.
Much of the Bible can be understood by the lay mind. But our God is the God of infinite knowledge, and, yes, he does want us to imitate him. Time and again, the Bible exhorts us to STUDY.
It also tells us to pay our teachers. Christians ought to fund the education of qualified scholar/preachers.
Take my point in the spirit that it’s meant, and try not to be a jackass. Our lives should be preoccupied with serving the poor and studying the Bible.
Do you doubt that knowledge of the disciplines I have mentioned would prove invaluable in understanding God’s word?
Explain “turn the other cheek” without understanding that to offer one’s cheek was a sign of friendship in that culture.
Explain Hannah’s torment without understanding what it meant in her culture to be barren. Nothing at all like it is today.
Explain what the word “meek” means, as in “blessed are the meek,” without understanding that the word was usually used to describe an animal.
Explain the change of heart over Herod’s lifetime without knowing that the Herod who was obsessed with John the Baptist was the same Herod the Christ confronted on his final day.
Explain Paul’s dissertation at the Acropolis without realizing he was actually referencing non-Biblical texts in his speech.
A solid knowledge of language, history, literature, culture, and philosophy are necessary to understand much of the Bible.
I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t refer to me as a jackass.
I have had many years of Scriptural study. But I have compassion on those who have minimal time for it due to the necessary daily grind, who don’t have the gift of availability of good and knowledgable and worthy teachers, who don’t have easy access to computers, and other convenient devices, who may be not so educated through no fault of their own, who may be anawim. I have been around people like that in my life and they have blessed me. They have invited me to “dinner” in their little hovels with dirt floors and they have touched me with their holiness. In my youth, so many, many years ago, I was one of those kind.
One could call them the unwashed masses, or something akin to that and perceive what I mean.
So, God being omniscient and merciful beyond our expectations, will fill all the gaps of such privileges,and give to His beloved in ways beyond our comprehension.
His word can pierce the marrow of their bones even when they seem deprived and they learn what He tells us: “All is grace”.
“Take my point in the spirit that it’s meant.”
God expects us to think, my friend. That’s my point. Framing a study of God’s word as a choice between literal and figurative is simplistic. That is my point.
I have a dear old friend, Sister Julia, who lives on a small pension, depends on help from others, and is lucky to have a few teeth in her head. She has little or no formal education. But she reads everything she can get her hands on, and in her eighties, not only has a sharp mind, but is always open to new ideas.
There are very few communities in America that, banding together, cannot afford to fund a well educated scholar to teach them, or teach their preachers.
I have no idea what you mean when you say you have many years of scriptural study. But you don’t seem to want to discuss how a study of the many other disciplines that are essential — not optional — in an understanding of scripture.
Your reverse snobbery is well evident, but I don’t hold it against you. I just encourage you to wake up to some new ideas and move the boundaries of your study far beyond where they currently lie. There is a vast treasure awaiting you.
*Ahem*
Not just Catholics.
Besides, there is humor to be found in the Bible. (1 Kings 18:27)
So you are saying then that you are not saved...You do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you...And you don't have a clue where you'll end up until you get there...Correct???
It is a lot easier to be a Christian with an ox-cart in the driveway instead of a Cadillac.
It’s very difficult to discuss theological matters on FR and not come off like a jackass... or worse.
And if that doesn't work, get saved and the Holy Spirit will guide you into all biblical truth...
Watch the language
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