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Why Orthodox Christians Are Not Cremated
GOARCH.ORG ^ | Fr. John Touloumes

Posted on 04/18/2007 1:57:05 PM PDT by kawaii

Why Orthodox Christians Are Not Cremated Fr. John Touloumes

Cremation (burning the bodies of those who have died to the point of ashes) is a practice which is being "sold" as a cost-effective, space-conservative alternative to traditional burial of the body. Throughout her history, however, the Orthodox Church has prohibited this practice. But, as in many areas of the Faith, we must take the time to learn why the Church takes such a position. In doing so, we not only grow in our own knowledge of the Lord and His Church, but we are better prepared to answer questions others ask us about our Orthodox Christian Faith.

The following passage is drawn from the Orthodox journal, "Life Transfigured" a publication of the Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Ellwood City, and from "Contemporary Moral Issues" by Father Stanley Harakas.

Compiled by Father John Touloumes

A Growing Practice & Problem In our country, cremation is increasingly being practiced. In part this is due to the influence of Oriental religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, and to the rise of neo-paganism. But it is also a result of the eroding of traditional beliefs among non-Orthodox Christians. In many Christian denominations — or at least among their liberal preachers — it is no longer necessary to believe in the "empty tomb, " in Christ’s physical Resurrection. These teachers call the "empty tomb" a myth and reduce all the post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus to merely spiritual experiences. The Orthodox conviction that the Son of God was also truly Man and was raised in His whole human nature — body and soul — explains the Church’s traditional rejection of cremation, a practice which is diametrically opposed to the expectation of the resurrection of the dead in Christ. If the Resurrection is merely a legend or a beautiful metaphor, then as Saint Paul writes, "If Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain" (1 Cor. 15.17)

The Church’s Historical Foundations The Church throughout her entire history has stressed the importance of understanding that Jesus was born with an actual human body with the same attributes and needs of any other human body, which upon being crucified died the same death that every other body has died. Three days later, the Resurrection included His human body. Through all this Jesus makes abundantly clear that the whole of our humanity – body as well as soul – has been called to salvation and eternal life. All of human nature has been raised by Christ’s Ascension to the right hand of the Father. Jesus gave us many proofs of this, but it is seen most clearly in Christ’s appearance to Thomas. In his "Commentary on Saint John," Saint Cyril of Alexandria writes:

"What need was there for the showing of His hands and side, if in accordance with the depravity of some, He did not rise with His own flesh? If He wanted His disciples to believe differently concerning Him, why did He not rather appear in a different and by putting the form of the flesh to shame, draw them towards a different understanding? But it was more important that He show Himself carefully at that time so that they should believe in the future resurrection of the flesh."

Saint Cyril adds that the Body of Christ had to be raised in order to vanquish death and destroy the power of corruption. Christ’s body, which Saint Thomas proved through touching to be real, gives clear witness to the future resurrection of our own bodies.

In God’s Image The human person is created in the image and likeness of God. When we are baptized it is not only the soul which becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit, but also the Body. When we receive Holy Communion, we take the real Body and Blood of Christ into our bodies. In the mysteries of Chrismation and Holy Unction it is our bodies which are anointed with Holy Chrism. Particularly clear proof of the sanctity of the body is given by those saints such as Saints Spyridon, Paraskevi, Savas, Gerasimos and Dionysios, whose bodies remain incorrupt centuries after their physical deaths. The Church knows innumerable accounts of healing occurring upon being blessed with the relics of a saint. These men and women lived the life in Christ so fully that not only were their souls taken to heaven but their bodies retain the sanctity and healing power of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

The Example of Holy Friday The future resurrection of the believer’s soul and body, according to the truth which Christ revealed, dictates the nature of Orthodox traditions concerning the body at death. In an Orthodox funeral, "the mourners gather" as the "myrrhbearers to provide the last ministry to the Christian body in preparation for the Resurrection." Anyone who has attended the Orthodox Great Friday services knows the sequence following Christ’s death: Joseph of Arimethea goes at great personal risk to beg Pilate for the body of Jesus. As our icons show, the Theotokos, Nicodemos, John the Apostle and the Myrrhbearing Women helped Joseph, covering the Most Precious Body with tears.

How We Care for the Body The Church has unequivocally taught since Christ’s Crucifixion that the proper way to treat the dead is a reverent burial of the body in the context of a proper Church funeral and prayers for those who have fallen asleep in the Lord. We sing hymns and psalms to escort the dead on their way and to express gratitude to God for their life and death. We wrap the body in a new shroud, symbolizing the new dress of incorruption the person is destined to receive. We pour myrrh and oil on the body as we do at baptism. We accompany this with incense and candles, showing our belief that the person has been liberated from darkness and is going to the true Light. We place the body in the grave towards the east, denoting the Resurrection to come. We weep in our grief, but not unrestrainedly, as we know what happiness is to come.

The Process of Death "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (1 Cor. 15.55). Death is neither a finality nor it is merely an evolutionary step. The Church in her wisdom commemorates saints on the day they died in this life, calling it their day of birth into eternal life in heaven. A Christian death means eternal life with Christ, where at the Last Judgement body and soul will be reunited and glorified together.

The Bridal Chamber A radiantly beautiful verse from the Orthros of Pascha concerning Christ’s bodily Resurrection from the grave encompasses the blessed hope He has given to each of us, saying: "Today, as from a Bridal Chamber Christ has shown forth from the Tomb and filled the women with joy, saying: Proclaim the glad tidings to the Apostles!"

The Broad Picture Acceptance of cremation, therefore, would represent a radical departure from an established practice for which there seems to be no adequate reason to institute a change. The argument that cemeteries waste space does not stand in a nation as immense as our own, especially when the universality of modern transportation makes burial sites away from urban centers easily accessible. The sky-rocketing cost of burial is not seen at this time as a compelling reason to sanction cremation, for the Church does not ask that funerals be extravagant and costly, but that a certain amount of respect be maintained for the human body that was once the temple of a human soul. Thus the Church, due to a pastoral concern for the preservation of right beliefs and right practice within the Tradition of the Fathers, and out of a sense of reverence for its departed, must continue its opposition to this practice. Each Orthodox Christian should know that since cremation is prohibited by the canons [rules of the Church], those who insist on their own cremation will not be permitted a funeral in the Church. Naturally, an exception occurs when the Church is confronted with the case of some accident or natural disaster where cremation is necessary to guard the health of the living. In these special situations, the Church allows cremation of Orthodox people with prior episcopal permission and only by "economia."


TOPICS: Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: burial; cremation; orthodox
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1 posted on 04/18/2007 1:57:14 PM PDT by kawaii
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; FormerLib; Agrarian

thoughts? pings?


2 posted on 04/18/2007 1:58:09 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kawaii

THANKS

REF MARKER


3 posted on 04/18/2007 2:18:10 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: Quix

i’m actually vaguely interested in your own thoughts on cremation...


4 posted on 04/18/2007 2:22:48 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kawaii

Well I’m no fan of cremation, but I don’t think that it would prohibit you from entering into heaven. Think about all of the people killed in fires that don’t have a choice about being cremated.


5 posted on 04/18/2007 2:30:15 PM PDT by rednesss
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To: kawaii

Cremation used to be forbidden for Catholics, too. One of the (many evil) fruits of Vatican II was that this became permissible. However, there are restrictions: the ashes are supposed to be buried, not kept in a locket, or on your TV, or scattered, etc. Our bishop has written several letters encouraging people to choose burial, and pointing out that cremation is permitted only if for some reason there is a necessity for it. Like everything else after Vatican II, this then became a general permission.

I want to have my coffin brought into the church, spend the night before the altar, and be buried properly after a funeral mass. That said, the current Catholic funeral stinks. The old one was beautiful, but the most beautiful of all is the Orthodox one (Beholding the Sea of Life, etc.). I’m Byzantine rite, and I’m hoping to hold out long enough to see reunion between the Orthodox and Rome so that I can be buried with the Orthodox rite...But if the worst happens and I don’t make it that far, I will rise up and haunt anybody who subjects me to the indignities of “On Eagles Wings” or any of the other Catholic happy face garbage that’s out there.


6 posted on 04/18/2007 2:30:23 PM PDT by livius
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To: kawaii

They are basically very consistent with the article.

I’m not interested in copying the pagans and wish to copy my Lord Jesus every way I can.

I appreciate the article. I often lack something of any substance to give folks who ask me about it.


7 posted on 04/18/2007 2:30:56 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: Quix; kawaii
I’m not interested in copying the pagans and wish to copy my Lord Jesus every way I can.

The first thing I thought of when I read the above is the scene from the movie version of Return of the King (it's also in the book) where the steward Denethor said, "We will burn, like the heathens kings of old."

8 posted on 04/18/2007 2:36:17 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Pyro7480

Hmmmm.

Is there a relationship with your screen name?

LOL.


9 posted on 04/18/2007 4:22:42 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: livius

Note to self: Don’t buy any home previously inhabited by livius (unless he gets the funeral he wants). :-)


10 posted on 04/18/2007 4:35:28 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hunter-Thompson '08)
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To: Quix

LOL!


11 posted on 04/18/2007 5:28:55 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Larry Lucido

LOL! Unless you can smell the incense and see wax from the tapers, stay away!


12 posted on 04/18/2007 5:50:38 PM PDT by livius
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To: kawaii; kosta50; FormerLib; Agrarian

“thoughts?”

Sure; I agree.


13 posted on 04/18/2007 6:04:38 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kawaii

***1Cr 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.***

And what about these?
(Christians blamed for burning Rome)
...Therefore, first those were seized who admitted their faith, and then, using the information they provided, a vast multitude not so much for the crime of burning the city, but for hatred of the human race. And perishing they were additionally made into sports: they were killed by dogs by having the hides of beasts attached to them, or they were nailed to crosses or set aflame, and, when the daylight passed away, they were used as nighttime lamps. Nero gave his own gardens for this spectacle and performed a Circus game, in the habit of a charioteer mixing with the plebs or driving about the race-course. -—Tacitus


14 posted on 04/18/2007 7:42:07 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: kawaii; Kolokotronis; Quix; FormerLib; Agrarian; Ruy Dias de Bivar; livius; Pyro7480
The Churchs makes a weak case for prohibition of cremation. It is safe to say that 99.999% of all the dead will be raised without an intact body.

There is nothing pretty about rotting bodies. Worms crawling through you and protruding from all the orifices, and fungus mushrooming out of your eyeballs and skin is hardly a dignified sight. Of course we don't see that.

Bodies must not be intentionally mutilated. But that's quite different from a dignified cremation, made in reverence for the departed.

I agree that remains should not be kept on furniture, but given a Christian burial.

15 posted on 04/18/2007 8:16:46 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Quix

**I often lack something of any substance to give folks who ask me about it.**

I’ll offer some.

The physical body of the Lord Jesus did not ‘suffer corruption’.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, so is the way for the rest of us.

(unless one is still alive when ‘in a twinkling of an eye’.......)

Vanity is in the funeral details. I’ve told my family: Do only what is required by guv’mint. Spend as little as possible.

Jesus didn’t put a great deal of emphasis on attending funerals, unless there was someone that he chose to awaken from ‘sleep’.


16 posted on 04/18/2007 8:21:47 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; kawaii; Kolokotronis; Quix
***1Cr 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.***

Early Greek NT manuscripts say "a body to give to glory" [kauchswmai], and not "to be burned" [kauyhswmai]. The difference of one letter appears in Textus Receptus, and is obviously a latter-day copying error by someone who didnt know Greek.

Textus Receptus, full of similar errors, metastasized to find home in the King James version and practically every western Bible — invariably leading to a faulty understanding of the scripture, and assuming — as in this case — that the Bible says it's okay to cremate bodies, whence the Protestants got their idea that it's okay to do so.

17 posted on 04/18/2007 8:39:09 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Zuriel; Quix
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, so is the way for the rest of us

Amen.

Vanity is in the funeral details

You speak my mind. Thank you.

18 posted on 04/18/2007 8:42:32 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kawaii

Funerals are overrated. Compost my body and plant a tree, hindend up of course so all the folks who never cared before can kiss it.


19 posted on 04/18/2007 8:45:19 PM PDT by cyborg (Just make it to mile 13 cy.)
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To: Zuriel

Agree! I don’t want a funeral myself. They’re morbid to me and I wouldn’t put my family through such a process.


20 posted on 04/18/2007 8:48:59 PM PDT by cyborg (Just make it to mile 13 cy.)
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To: kawaii
So what about embalming? Many of the same arguments made here against cremation would carry over to embalming I would think.
21 posted on 04/18/2007 9:41:46 PM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations. So should you.)
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To: kawaii; All
Cremation is a practice which is being "sold" as a cost-effective, space-conservative alternative to traditional burial of the body.

For those who have these two concerns, you might want to look into "green cemeteries" instead of cremation.

22 posted on 04/18/2007 9:48:47 PM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations. So should you.)
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To: Between the Lines

the orthodox church views them the same though i suspoect your milage may vary amoung western converts...


23 posted on 04/18/2007 9:59:19 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis

the vast majority of respoonses underscore why folks prefer cremation and its all wordly tripe.

given the loaded pagan fascination for it, and the worldly idiocarcy a buriel sans open casket and sans disfuration makes sense.

plus for those who defer to the church, and in this case very Orthodox See, it makes sense to leave it up to the Holy Spirit which speaks through the one true church.


24 posted on 04/18/2007 10:03:44 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: Kolokotronis

well said kolo, and i’m very happy that the greek article i found articulates clearly and with much substantiation the orthodox reasoning, and much more articulatly than the oca or orthodoxinfo stuff i found...


25 posted on 04/18/2007 10:07:11 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: cyborg; All

I’m not a great fan of funerals either.

However, I do recognize that most of us need some sort of closure on a relationship with a loved one. And, for many, the funeral serves that purpose as no other event does. And, that’s OK with me.

I am most hostile to the GROSSLY UNNECESSARY charges and actions of the funeral folks. Embalming serves no eternal and even no greatly lasting purpose in this life. It mostly helps things smell tolerably at the funeral viewing.

In Taiwan, they have refrigerated glass coffin sorts of things that serve a similar purpose.

My mother, hearing her in-laws who managed the oldest cemetary in town—bringing it up to speed in a list of hard work ways—realized that EVERYTHING decays sooner or later—and was quite willing to put her mother in a cardboard coffin that we both picked out. That would be fine with me.

And, they can have a large recent pic at the funeral vs an open casket viewing. No need to embalm me. Take me from wherever I fell or am found straight to the hole in the ground. Though I may fall on some distant field somewhere and the birds take care of me.

Burial at sea would be tolerable though there’s a family plot for me here and I could be buried at a vet cemetary.

But I really DO APPRECIATE AND REJOICE IN AND WITH THE TRULY CHRISTIAN SERVICES where someone’s life is TRULY CELEBRATED AND WHERE IT IS CELEBRATED THAT THEY REALLY HAVE GONE TO THEIR HEAVENLY REWARD AND ARE IN A FAR BETTER PLACE THAN WE MORTALS. Some of those can be hymn singing, toe tapping glorious times of worship, laughter and uproariously great stuff amidst loved ones of the departed.

So, I guess I have a range of feelings. But personally, for me, the less hoopla, the better. And, I want whatever happens to be real and authentic. No phoney fluff and whitewashing.

And, I’d rather God be glorified somehow in the whole process.


26 posted on 04/18/2007 10:33:14 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: kawaii; kosta50; Kolokotronis
This is a little off topic, but it's a question that's been bothering me a little.

In the last 4 1/2 years I've lost both of my parents. To this day, I haven't been back to the cemetery to visit their graves since the funerals, although I pray for their souls on regular basis. I don't believe they are in those boxes that were planted in the ground. I like to believe their souls are in heaven.

Am I being disrespectful by not visiting their graves? Placing flowers or talking through the ground to a decaying body in a box isn't something I personally feel is necessary or even something I want to do, although I completely respect those that find comfort in such rituals.

Are my beliefs I outta line with the teachings of the Church?

27 posted on 04/19/2007 1:11:42 AM PDT by getoffmylawn
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To: getoffmylawn; kawaii; Kolokotronis
I hope you are doing a lot of panikhidas (parastas, memorials) in the church for the souls of your parents asleep in Christ.

I think they do more than all the talking.

28 posted on 04/19/2007 1:39:10 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

?


29 posted on 04/19/2007 6:43:17 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: cyborg
Cemeteries are a waste of real estate.
30 posted on 04/19/2007 6:46:53 AM PDT by the_devils_advocate_666
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To: kawaii

Whgat’s the question, kawaii?


31 posted on 04/19/2007 8:53:05 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

made the mistake of reading posts in reverse, made sense in chrnological order...


32 posted on 04/19/2007 8:55:16 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kawaii

Apply to poor souls that lost their flesh over ages in the ground, too?


33 posted on 04/19/2007 9:30:47 AM PDT by polymuser (There is one war and one enemy.)
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To: Quix

I agree. I guesss what I don’t like are the fake,phoney, sham funerals where people who couldn’t stand you in real life show up.


34 posted on 04/19/2007 9:44:16 AM PDT by cyborg (Just make it to mile 13 cy.)
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To: the_devils_advocate_666

Never thought of that.


35 posted on 04/19/2007 9:45:52 AM PDT by cyborg (Just make it to mile 13 cy.)
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To: Quix

I actually do not like funerals that are all about the dear departed. They’re often frivolous, trivial and do not seem to have any understanding of either Christian death or the Resurrection. Sometimes, in fact, they are practically embarrassing to attend.

The thing that I like about a very formal Orthodox (or traditional Catholic) funeral is that it’s about life, death and the Lord. That’s it.


36 posted on 04/19/2007 10:13:01 AM PDT by livius
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To: cyborg

Much agree. Thx.


37 posted on 04/19/2007 10:44:59 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: livius

I don’t mind a life review of the departed. I think they need to be a BIT more honest than usual.

And, for Christians, I think the emphasis needs to be on Christian values and The Resurrection.


38 posted on 04/19/2007 10:45:50 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: livius

is there any way you could get permission or something for the orthodox rite?


39 posted on 04/19/2007 10:52:17 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: Quix
I appreciate the article. I often lack something of any substance to give folks who ask me about it.

I'd say emulating Christ as opposed to pagans is a good rationale.
40 posted on 04/19/2007 10:53:10 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: kawaii

I’m Byzantine rite Catholic, so if I lived in a place where there was a functioning Byzantine rite Catholic church, it would be no problem. Unfortunately, there aren’t many of them, and none around where I live now. So I’ve either got to move or hope the Orthodox and the Catholic churches hurry up and work out their differences before then...hmm, maybe I’ll just hang on until then, that should give me another couple hundred years...


41 posted on 04/19/2007 10:56:53 AM PDT by livius
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To: Quix

No, I don’t mind a brief overview, either.

But I think there was also something to be said for the sort of “standardization” of funerals. When I grew up in New York, prior to Vatican II, it was normally the custom to bring the body into the church the night before, so it was usually present at the daily mass and in fact sometimes the daily mass was actually the funeral mass. This was often for somebody who had no family - one of hte many solitary old people who lived alone in single rooms in parts of Manhattan.

To me, there was always something dignified and solemn about this soul, whom none of us at the mass had probably known in life, being “sent forth upon his journey” at the mass, a solitary, somewhat marginal person being treated with the same respect that everybody else who had families and mourners got.

The coffin was usually open and I remember standing on line next to the it while I waited to go to Communion and looking at this person and saying a prayer for him. It was nice to think that we were all saying prayers for him and his face was being seen for one last time. Then they would close the coffin.

Don’t know if this makes any sense, but that was how I felt about it at the time and I wish some of this solemnity and dignity would come back.


42 posted on 04/19/2007 11:05:00 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius

Beautiful.

Thanks for sharing such memories.


43 posted on 04/19/2007 11:32:26 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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To: kosta50

***Textus Receptus, full of similar errors, metastasized to find home in the King James version and practically every western Bible — invariably leading to a faulty understanding of the scripture, ****

I just checked my translations.
Wycliff
Geneva
KJV
DOUAI RHEIMS
NASV
RSV
All say “burned”

The Confraternity Verion says “boasting”.

Others on line can be found below, all say “burned”.

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B46C013.htm

Also again, what of those burned by Nero?


44 posted on 04/19/2007 7:23:01 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: livius
I wish some of this solemnity and dignity would come back

Indeed.

45 posted on 04/19/2007 8:50:03 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
All the bibles you list are western bible which came either from Vulgate or Textus Receptus. The former is a 5th century Latin version made by Jerome, but the oldest copy of that bible is an 8th century copy.

The Vulgate replaced the Old Latin Bible and was expressly used only in the western Church.

The rest of the Bibles you quote are essentially based on Textus Receptus or TR, a 16th century collection of 12th century Greek texta and Staphanes' French Greek sources (all of which are latter-day copies).

This was done because no one but Wycliffe believed the Vulgate was a true translation of the Greek originals, so the English speaking community wanted an English-language translation based on Greek text. Trouble is, the quality of the Greek text was extremely poor, with plenty of copying errors, editions, deletions, and so on.

TR is an expressly unreliable source of Greek Text. Where needed verses were missing, they were supplemented by using Vulgate and retro-translating a Latin translation backwards into Greek again. Portions of the Revelation of John was done that way and other examples are plentiful.

Thus in Acts 9:6 the section reading "And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me do..." is not found in any Greek manuscripts but was added to TR from Vulgate.

There are also known forgeries such as (in)the famous Pericope Adulterae and Comma Johanenum that are incorporated into the TR, and from Tr ended up in just about any English bible afertwards.

Your own refreence lists Alexanbdrian text (4th century complete Greek bible) as having "boast" and so does latter-day Hort and Westcort, which are Alexandrian sources in English. The other two are TR versions.

46 posted on 04/19/2007 9:25:07 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Can you recommend an Orthodox bible in English?


47 posted on 04/19/2007 9:57:29 PM PDT by Rytwyng (Mr. Bushbachov, close down this border!!!!!!)
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To: Rytwyng
Can you recommend an Orthodox bible in English?

Yes The Greek English Interlinear New Testament, Robert K. Brown, Phillip W. Comfort, Tyndale House Publishers, 1990. Or The Greek New Testament by United Bible Societies, 1993.

They represent the oldest available full biblical texts (4th century). The Greek Orthodox Church unfortunately suggests KJV, a very bad choice.

The GOC also uses a 5th century NT which is a heavily redacted and doctored source which makes it highly unreliable. It also mixed the the Byzantine and Alexandrian text-types (the Gospels and the Epistles of Paul being in different text-types).

The GOC's OT is likewise heavily influenced by the Hebrew rather than Septuagint OT. The Apostles almost exclusively used the Septuagint as OT reference.

For OT, I recommend C. L. Benton's Septuagint Old Testament.

It is actually available online in both Greek and English versions.

48 posted on 04/19/2007 10:20:23 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

****The rest of the Bibles you quote are essentially based on Textus Receptus or TR, a 16th century collection of 12th century Greek texta and Staphanes’ French Greek sources (all of which are latter-day copies).****

Not quite. Those from the Revised Version onward use the Alexandrian, Vatacanus and Sinaiaticus texts of the 4th century and say “burnt” except for the Confraternity text.

Again, what of those burnt by Nero and those eaten by lions in the Arena.


49 posted on 04/20/2007 6:22:58 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: kosta50

***It is actually available online in both Greek and English versions.***

Links please. We will be grateful for it.


50 posted on 04/20/2007 6:25:07 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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