Posted on 04/22/2007 7:20:02 AM PDT by Rhadaghast
I need to desrcibe succinctly several different philosopies of the nature of man. I will also need to support this with citations.
I believe that man is inheirently selfish, prone to promote self above all else. His natural bent will be self gratification devolving into ever lower levels of depravity. Without the tempering influence of the Holy Spirit, or the presence of the conscience there is no hope that man will attempt to do good. The good that he does attempt without these influences or after 'quenching the spirit' or 'searing the conscience' all his efforts result from the basic drive of self gratification; either avoiding pain or persuing pleasure. Even when that action appears to be altruistic it is simply amilerating a sense of guilt or obligation.
Therefore many may choose God simply out of fear of damnation or hope of eternal reward rather than the desire to please God.
Please feel free to present other ideas of man, but be brief.
Thanks.
Not so, as usual with such blanket philosophical statements.
They refuse to see the uniqueness of man and what individual man can choose. I do believe Paul mentions this in Romans.
a curious bump for later reading.
Because of our depraved nature, we can’t even choose God unless He graciously allows us to. And He desires that we would all choose Him because of Who He is, not what He can do for us.
Eternal communion with God is the reward I’m looking for. Everyone who goes to Hell will chose it freely. Why would anyone choose Hell? That is a mystery.
Could it be................SATAN?!?!?!
(sorry, I couldn’t resist. ;-)
It is grace of man that turns man to God. Selfishness turns man to evil, and thus away from God.
It is Love that man worships when he worships God. There is no selfishness in Love only forgiveness.
Evil is a choice. Love is inherent.
The Lord is akin to our Father, now if we can deduce from the natural the spiritual, who loves their Father only because they are afraid that He will punish them? Who loves their Father only because they hope to “get something nice from him”?
Interesting site and a great exposition of the various dead ends which result from separation theology. Thanks.
I believe that the idea of heaven and hell are really irrelevant to the idea of good and evil-the concept of an eternal reward/punishment makes right no more virtuous and and evil no less reprehensible. I’m a Catholic, and I do my best to live up to the standards of my Savior, as that is the domain of man, but I’m going to let God decide what happens I die, as that is His domain.
Romans 3:10-12 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no not one.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Commentary: Well, God created us with a brain and feelings that logically SHOULD seek to escape eternal punishment for our sins in the way that He provides; but what most of us really are crying out for is to really know God through the Holy Spirit in the inner man, and He is also crying out to each one of us to just ask Him in. All the religious arguments fall by the wayside with the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Would you please post this under the “Religion” category? It’s also a vanity post. Thank you!
Can you be more specific about the reference please, and do you have a different view of man?
Jesus pointed out the motivation of people in many instances, specifically when asked what was the greatest commandment. That definitely pointed to movitation and underlying repsonse. Man can still join a church to get fire insurance and now he can join a church for future and current reward, but the motivation as described in I Corinthians means his selfish nature is creating hay, wood and stubble, not gems in a crown. Are you saying you have a different view of man and if so, what is it?
It seems you have a strange mix of Armenian and Calvin-istic views here. If we can’t even choose God (Calvinism) then that doesn’t change the selfishness presupposition of my original argument. But if we can choose God for who He is versus what He has done for us, are you excluding Salvation as an act of Christ?
Starting with breakfast.Green eggs and ham.
Wrong thread moron!
Can you be more specific about the reference please, and do you have a different view of man?
I have a similar view of man in general, but not of individuals specifically, in Romans 4.9 Paul is explaining why Abraham was righteous before God, not out of fear of punishment, nor of hope of reward, but because Abraham believed God, he was considered righteous.
To follow your initial statement would require the elimination of Abraham’s acceptance by God just based on belief.
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