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THE IMPORTANCE OF [rebuilding] BABYLON [socialism began thr; bk critique R We Living N END TIMES?]
BK: Are We Living in the END TIMES? | 1999, 30 APR 2007 | Tim LaHaye, Jerry B Jenkins, Quix critique

Posted on 04/30/2007 9:00:21 PM PDT by Quix

Quix: I've been undecided about whether the Bible clearly indicated Babylon was to be rebuilt in these END TIMES until reading as far as I have in this book. I believe this excerpt is an important one to prayerfully consider and that it is indicative of a wealth of well researched info in the book. I consider it well worth getting and reading all of—for anyone seriously interested in the END TIMES and Bible prophecy.

Pp132-143
Babylon is mentioned 280 times in the Bible—more than any city except Jerusalem. It is easily the most important pagan city that ever existed, for there is hardly any city in the world that it has not in some way influenced—whether religiously, governmentally, or commercially. Her influence spread not only west to Rome, where it shaped all the developing nation states and most cities during the next two and a half millennia, but also to the east and south. Long before the word for it had been coined, socialism had been a Babylonian philosophy for the conduct of government, commerce, and religion. Most of the governments that followed it adoped many of its policies—a form of organized living independent of God.

Babylon is where Satan located his headquarters and began his centuries-old battle against God for the conquest of the souls of men. It was there that the seeds were planted for all the major religions of the world. There, government had its earliest beginnings, eventually producing Nebuchadnezzar, considered by some to have been the most autocratic dictator in history. According to both Daniel the prophet and secular history, all world governments from that time on have been inferior to Babylon. [Qx: I wonder, in terms of what—efficiency? Not the best measure of the quality of life under a government, I’d say]

Since the demise of Rome fifteen hundred years ago, no other world government has arisen—just as the prophet foretold (Daniel 2,7). Not that many haven’t tried! But they all failed, for God revealed that there would be only four world governments. Then at the “time of the end,” the world would unite once more under ten kings who would loan their authority to one man—a Nebuchadnezzar –type, if you will—who would do as he pleased, even “changing the times and seasons” . . . for a very short time.

And in the days of these kinds the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. (Daniel 2:44)

These great events will occur when God puts an end to the conflict that has been raging for millennia between Him and Satan for the allegiance of human hearts. God woos us through His Word and His Spirit to walk by faith; Satan woos us through government, commerce, and religious idolatry to walk by sight.

When Christ comes to set up His kingdom, He will destroy the city of Babylon, as well as Babylonian religion, commerce, and government. Then He will rule the world forever (Revelation 17-18). But first . . .

THE CITY OF BABYLON MUST BE REBUILT!

Once Satan moved his religious, commercial, and governmental capital to the city of Rome (in the first century before Christ), he lost interest in the original site of Babylon, located in the present country of Iraq. The city was abandoned many years later and was gradually covered by the winds and sands of time.

Around the turn of the twentieth century, some Bible teachers began to popularize the idea that the abandoned ruins of the city fulfilled prophecy. To support their position they quoted some of the prophecies relating to the eventual destruction of the city, particularly those that predict that it will never again be built. It made for colorful preaching. But as we shall see, Babylon was never destroyed as the Bible says it would be, in a single day as God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

The failure to take literally these prophecies about Babylon has led otherwise good men to make some fanciful attempts to identify the Babylonian cities of Revelation 17 and 18. I well recall hearing a noted prophecy teacher expound on those texts, predicting that New York City was the new Babylon of the twentieth century [Qx once believed that] and would soon be destroyed. Again, it made for colorful preaching . . . but it was wrong.

Many of us who take a literal approach to Bible prophecy have felt for years that the city ofBabylon must be restored before the Second Coming. In fact, when I wrote my commentary on the book of Revelation thirty years ago, I predicted that Babylon would be rebuilt. Little did I realize that Saddam Hussein, one of the cruelest dictators of our time, was launching such an undertaking as a monument to himself!

WHY MUST BABYLON BE REBUILT?

The main reason for believing that Babylon must be rebuilt depends on some unfulfilled prophecies concerning the city’s destruction. Let’s briefly consider five sets of these prophecies.

1. Isaiah 13 and 14 and Jeremiah 50 and 51 describe the destruction of Babylon at “the day of the Lord.”

A careful reading of these four chapters will reveal that the prophecies concerning the destruction of Babylon use the law of double reference; that is, they refer to two overthrows of Babylon. The first occurred in the seventieth year of Israel’s captivity. The second will occur on the day of Yahweh, that is, the seven-year Tribulation. At that time Babylon will be the headquarters of the world’s governmental, commercial, and religious systems—in opposition to the will of God. And at that time it will be utterly destroyed, never to rise again.

2. The ruins of Babylon have been used to build other cities, contrary to Jeremiah 51:26.

Jeremiah predicted of Babylon, “They shall not take from you a stone for a corner nor a stone for a foundation, but you shall be desolate forever.” It is reliably reported that at least six cities bear the marks of ancient Babylon in their buildings: Seleucia, . . . Kufa, by the Caliphs; Hillah, just a twenty-minute walk from ancient Babylon, built almost entirely from Babylon’s ruins; and Baghdad, fifty miles north of Babylon, also used materials from the ancient city.

These facts alone demand the rebuilding of Babylon, because when God destroys it as recorded in Revelation 18, no part of it will ever be used to build another city.”

3. The prophecies of Jeremiah and Isaiah indicate that Babylon will be suddenly and totally obliterated.

“Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed” says the prophet in Jeremiah 51:8 (KJV). And Isaiah 13:19 states, “And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah” (KJV).

A look at history reveals the city was never destroyed in the way these Hebrew prophets predicted it would be, which guarantees it must be rebuilt. Babylon declined gradually, over hundreds of years, and never was devastated in anything like the sudden conflagration that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah. . . .

An interesting aspect to Isaiah’s prophecy is that, like the city of Sodom, Babylon is built over vast supplies of bituminous asphalt and pitch. When my friend, prophecy preacher Dr. Charls Pa, led a tour of Babylon in 1975, he was told that the asphalt is only ten feet below the surface of the earth throughout the whole city. And while that may indicate there is oil underground, it is also an ideal condition to produce its ultimate destruction by fire and brimstone. A volcanic eruption could easily fulfill the destruction of the city as described in Revelation 18. . . .

4. Isaiah 13:20 states that the ruins of Babylon are never to be inhabited.

The prophet declared of the devastated Babylon, “It will never be inhabited, nor will it be settled from generation to generation; nor will the Arabian pitch tents there, nor will the shepherds make their sheepfolds there.”

But as we just saw, Babylon was inhabited for much of ancient history even after the Medes and Persians conquered the Babylonian Empire. In fact, one writer records that about A.D. 1100, under the name of Hillah, Babylon was enlarged and fortified; in 1898 Hillah boasted ten thousand inhabitants.

And certainly it has never been true that ‘Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there, nor will the shepherds make their sheepfolds there.” Both still occur to this day. Neither can it be said of Babylon, “Her cities are a desolation, a dry land and a wilderness, a land where no one dwells, through which no son of man passes” (Jeremiah 51:43) . . .

No, in order for this prophecy to be fulfilled, Babylon must be rebuilt, then destroyed in a mighty display of God’s righteous power.

5. An ancient rabbinic rule of interpretation says that when the Bible mentions an event twice, it means the event will happen twice.

If this rabinnic guideline is correct, then we can be assured that Babylon will be rebuilt, for both Isaiah and the apostle John use the same double verbs to describe its destruction:

Babylon is fallen, is fallen! And all the carved images of her gods He has broken to the ground! (Isaiah 21:9)

Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. (Revelation 14:8)

Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! (Revelation 18:2)

Since the word “fallen” is used twice in each of these passages, the rabbinic rule demands that the city fall twice. But if it is to fall again, it must first be rebuilt.

BABYLON ALREADY LIVES

During the early eighties I began hearing stories of rebuilding in Babylon. Several times I tried to inquire how to make a visit there so I could see for myself. My friend Dr Joe Chambers was invited in 1989 to make an official visit to the rebuilt city as a guest of the Iraqi government. When he returned, he wrote a book titled A Palace for the Antichrist, complete with pictures of the walls, the magnificent gate of Ishtar (the female goddess whose history dates to themother of Nimrod, the worship of whom is growing in the Western world), the palace of Nebuchadnezzar and three pagan temples.

On June 28, 1990, Diane Sawyer and Sam Donaldson took the nation to this incredible city of Babylon via their television program Prime Time Live. They pointed out that Saddam Hussein had spent over a billion dollars of his oil wealth rebuilding the city as a monument to himself.

Now, Saddam Hussein dreams of rebuilding the grandeur, reclaiming the vision . . . In fact, right over here there are bricks that bear an ancient stamp. It says, “I am King Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, king of everything from sea to far sea.” But there are new bricks here too, . . . . This one says . . . “I am Saddam Hussein, president of the Republic of Iraq.”1

. . .

SADDAM, THE SERVANT OF SATAN

It is difficult to explain the bizarre behavior of Saddam Hussein without thinking him quite possibly demon possessed. Before he ever declared the eight-year-long war on his closest neighbor, Iran—a conflict that cost both countries over a million men and crippled countless thousands of others for life—he already had earned the title of “butcher of Baghdad” for killing his own people. Even today [1999], if it were not for the United Nations and U.S. presence in northern Iraq, he would exterminate the Kurds living in his country.

Many Westerners still don’t understand what Hussein wasdoing when he invaded Kuwait and triggered the Gulf War. He had his eyes set not on little Kuwait alone but on the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Jordan—all the enemies of Israel and the very countries who own 70 percent of the world’s oil. . . .

Religiously, Saddam may give lip service to Muhammad and act like a devoted Muslim, but there is strong indication that he is actually a Satanist. A key is found in Dr. Charles Pak’s report of his 1975 visit to Babylon to witness firsthand the rebuilding of that ancient city. There, for the first time in his life, Dr. Pak witnessed the worship of the devil at a reconstructed temple to the sun. When you recall that Hussein is known to micromanage everything in his country, including that entire rebuilding project, you can be sure that a temple to Satan would not be there without his approval.

Certainly Hussein is not reported to be “normal.” What normal man would take his revolver and blow the brains out of one of his own generals merely for asking to be excused from a staff meeting (where Hussein was rambling on and on) because his wife had just called to say she had to go to the hospital to deliver their child? . . .

P143
You can be sure that any city mentioned seven times in two chapters as is Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18, will be a literal city. And since it is seen there as an enormously influential city, perhaps even the capital of government, commerce, and religion, it must yet be rebuilt. . . .

Add to the above, various reports I’ve read in the last year or three about the globalist’s plans to build their world government headquarters in rebuilt Babylon . . . and it definitely begins to be more than a little interesting.

I believe that LaHaye and Jenkins’ research is accurate and conclusive. I no longer believe that Biblically predicted Babylon of the END TIMES is New York or London or Hong Kong or Tokyo. Babylon is the only one that fits the prophecies so accurately. And that’s without considering the global government’s plans to place their headquarters there.

I also believe that the above facts demonstrate the validity of taking prophecies mostly—certainly overwhelmingly—literally where at all workable. We are seeing END TIMES prophecies come alive right before our eyes on CNN month after month.

The book has many other examples of literal fulfillment of END TIMES prophecies either in the last 60 years or on the brink of being fulfilled. I consider it one of the better prophecy focused books that I’ve read in the last 35 years.

I think that the above paragraphs are indicative of the writing style and flow of the writing. It is very readable and fast paced, imho.

There are ample footnotes for each chapter but put annoyingly at the end instead of the bottom of each page. Cost considerations, I guess—or editorial stupidity.

I realize that many believers love to mock and dismiss LaHaye and Jenkins because of their fiction series. I was not a great fan of the series though I enjoyed the concluding one where Christ returned.

However, this is a pleasure to read and is full of meaty information, well documented. I heartily recommend it to anyone interested in the END TIMES—including those who have decided on their own wisdom that we are not in the END TIMES because all such prophecies happened long ago. This book proves otherwise in abundance.


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: babylon; endtimes; prophecy; timlahaye
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I hope we can discuss the book and related issues peacably. I will post some more interesting points from the book later in the thread, Lord willing and the Creek don't rise up.
1 posted on 04/30/2007 9:00:27 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl; airborne; American in Israel; AnimalLover; auggy; backhoe; backslacker; ...

PING TO END TIMES PING LIST.

Please let me know if you want on or off this ping list.

May you be strengthened in The Lord by this discussion.


2 posted on 04/30/2007 9:02:48 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Quix

It’s amazing how creative folks get. Remember the USSR-era end-of-times theories?

The fact is, we’ve been living in the “end times” for about 2000 years, ever since that day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit empowered the Apostles.

Now let’s all take to heart Matthew 24:36, live as Jesus directed in Matthew 24:44, and obey His commandment in Matthew 28:19-20.


6 posted on 04/30/2007 9:20:02 PM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: pjr12345

Of course we are to be ready at all times as He’s coming when we think it less likely. Mat 24:44.

Been doing Mat 28:19-20 most of my life here and abroad as a tentmaker Good News sharer.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Perhaps you’d be so kind as to point out when in the last 2,000 years there have been more than a few somewhat similar to the END TIMES Prophetic signs true in the same era—say compared to this era where there are 100’s of data points including the great one of Israel becoming a nation again in a day in 1948 as predicted.


7 posted on 04/30/2007 9:27:55 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: pjr12345

Russia still has a part to play in Biblical prophecies. And their courting Iran fits well within those prophecies.

Of course, some prefer to look the other way and pretend that such prophecies have no modern relevance.


8 posted on 04/30/2007 9:29:14 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
I have no clue if Babylon is a literal city, or a spiritual condition. What I do feel fairly confident in saying is I believe this is the last generation of fallen humans to inhabit the planet, and we are soon going to have an infinitely greater understanding of all the events of the end times, as they unfold. I also think many Christians are going to be just as shocked as the world is at what transpires, especially in regards to what the true meaning of being “caught up” is, and the second coming of Christ to His temple, “the church which is his body”.

The other thing I know is I don’t argue with people about politics and religion, so I never respond to posts. I state my position, and “let the reader” decide. I believe I am the king of nonresponse on FR.

9 posted on 04/30/2007 9:34:28 PM PDT by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (Christ's Kingdom on Earth is the answer. What is your question?)
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To: Quix

I read through your post and think you are a nut. Glad to see the nuts in conservative disguise are protected. Conservatism is not dependent upon religion. Please don’t ruin it for the rest of the conservatives by being “jihadist” about what you believe and causing another Pelosi. My comments being pulled as they were smell of Iran. Thanks Mulla.


10 posted on 04/30/2007 9:34:46 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.)
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To: Quix

The nation that calls itself Israel is not the Israel of the Bible. Not one Israeli can demonstrate his genealogy. That nation is gone forever.

But don’t let me hijack your thread. I’ve been beaten up for that a couple of times recently already. Please, continue...


11 posted on 04/30/2007 9:35:57 PM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath

I certainly am eager to see THE RETURN OF THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


12 posted on 04/30/2007 9:40:19 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

Your additional personal assault is noted. Interestingly, I did not press the abuse button . . . yet. I suspect the moderator will get around to it soon enough.

The forum rules are there for a reason. If you don’t like them, you might begin your own forum.

The vast majority here tend to like this one the way it is.


13 posted on 04/30/2007 9:42:27 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: pjr12345

1. No other nation in history has been reconstituted after being conquered and dispersed.

2. No other dead language has been reconstituted as a National language.

3. God Promised HIS BUDDY Abraham many literal promises. GOD ALMIGHTY FULFILLS HIS PROMISES. He’s a point about which HE’S VERY PICKY.

4. The priestly genetics have been confirmed by DNA. They are now confident of being able to pick pure descendants of Aaron.

5. Stay tuned. God is going to make sport of lots of assumptions.


14 posted on 04/30/2007 9:45:23 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

You seem to want to hurry the process. Gods work is Gods work. Ours is to do our best at being what he wants and certainly not to guess when he comes. It is sheer arrogance to assume you can know his ways... as in when and where. You are blasphemous if you think you can decipher his exact intent and methods. If you do you are either a prophet or a heretic. You are no prophet. You can spread the word. Get back to it and quit the false prophecy.


15 posted on 04/30/2007 9:45:28 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

I rebuke in the Name of Jesus any hint that I’m engaging in false prophecy.

When you have a book or commentary accepted by The Body of Christ as part of Canonized Scripture, perhaps I’ll consider the perspective presented.

Please take your venom elsewhere. This thread is not a fitting place for it.


16 posted on 04/30/2007 9:47:51 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

- “If you do”


17 posted on 04/30/2007 9:50:07 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!

For guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum, click on my profile page.

18 posted on 04/30/2007 9:51:30 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Quix
4. The priestly genetics have been confirmed by DNA. They are now confident of being able to pick pure descendants of Aaron.

How on earth could they possibly confirm DNA? They have to have a known, valid accurate standard to measure against. They don't. Not one living Jew can authentic his heritage.

Also, I know for a fact that many of those living in Israel, claiming to be Jews, Aren't. Many of these "Jews" found their religion when this new nation offered to welcome any Jew to the new homeland. I have met more than one of these folks, and they confirm this reality.

I am certain God has a plan and will carry it out. However, assigning any sort of "special" status to this country in the middle east based upon its name and language will simply disappoint.

19 posted on 04/30/2007 9:52:28 PM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: pjr12345

History of the not too distant future will prove which perspective covered more data points/predicted more data points accurately.

Stay tuned.

In my 60 years, it’s always been a fairly sure bet to bet on the Bible’s literal fulfillment.


21 posted on 04/30/2007 10:54:59 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
socialism began thr; bk critique R We Living N END TIMES?

Somebody has been doing a little too much text messaging.

22 posted on 05/01/2007 12:33:20 AM PDT by iowamark (What if the Right said Fred?)
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To: Quix
Some scholars claim that 75% of the bible is prophecy...I see no reason to dispute that...

It's bizarre to claim that the bible's prophecy ends with the church and we are now living in the physical Kingdom of God/Heaven...

There is so much in the bible that we can not relate to because the true meaning of much of the bible has not been revealed yet...And will not be revealed except to the people that it was written to...The bible does not end with the church...

P143 You can be sure that any city mentioned seven times in two chapters as is Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18, will be a literal city. And since it is seen there as an enormously influential city, perhaps even the capital of government, commerce, and religion, it must yet be rebuilt. . . .

I believe it is, and has been rebuilt for some time...But not in Iraq...In looking again to Jer. 51, there is much that could be applied to the here and now...

23 posted on 05/01/2007 2:09:42 AM PDT by Iscool (I'm Back...Now what were your other two wishes???)
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To: pjr12345; Quix
How on earth could they possibly confirm DNA?

There are certain genetic markers that were found to be in common with most Jewish people (and some Samaritans) that are not found in other Gentile peoples. But the problem is that many of the Eastern Jews have a lot of Khazar blood, and don't look like the Western European Jews.

A VERY political subject, and one that almost most no one likes to look into. The Khazar were a Turkish people between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Caliph that decided to split the difference and become Jewish. There were already a large number of Jews living in the land, so this wasn't as surprising as it could have been. The claim that "All Jews in Israel are Khazars" is made by many islamics to say that Israel doesn't have a right to exist.

24 posted on 05/01/2007 6:42:34 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Why don’t they just start measuring skulls like the Nazis used to???


25 posted on 05/01/2007 7:03:49 AM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: pjr12345

??

By using the common genetic trait, there is at least a good idea that they came from the same people somewhere along the line. It is uncommon enough that it is fairly specific.


26 posted on 05/01/2007 7:20:14 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

what about their required genealogies? What about being an “israelite” only if your mother was? Science can’t reproduce that.


27 posted on 05/01/2007 7:24:43 AM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: pjr12345
True. But that is where the genetic tests came in.

There are communities of Jews who can or claim to trace their families back to the historical kingdom of Israel. The DNA was looked at, and certain common markers were found. That later was used to ascertain if someone was “Jewish”.

28 posted on 05/01/2007 7:30:05 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Quix
A key is found in Dr. Charles Pak’s report of his 1975 visit to Babylon to witness firsthand the rebuilding of that ancient city. There, for the first time in his life, Dr. Pak witnessed the worship of the devil at a reconstructed temple to the sun. When you recall that Hussein is known to micromanage everything in his country, including that entire rebuilding project, you can be sure that a temple to Satan would not be there without his approval.

Saddam Hussein became president of Iraq in July, 1979.

29 posted on 05/01/2007 7:33:59 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion

this is nothing new... all of islam worships the devil and calls him allah.


30 posted on 05/01/2007 7:42:28 AM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: Campion; pjr12345

Do you agree with post #30?


31 posted on 05/01/2007 8:13:31 AM PDT by Augustinian monk
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To: Augustinian monk

Clarification:

The allah of islam is no different than baal of the moab.

Surely muslims believe allah to be god.

Sadly, they will be mightily surprised when they come face-to-face with the Almighty God of the Universe, the Great I AM.


32 posted on 05/01/2007 8:53:53 AM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: Augustinian monk
Muslims correctly identify God as the uncreated, "first-principle" creator of all things, and correctly call the true God merciful and benificent.

They then proceed to wrongly ascribe to him a number of qualities which make (their understanding of) him closer to a demonic slavemaster than the God of the Bible.

33 posted on 05/01/2007 8:59:02 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Iscool; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Marysecretary

Agreed. Verse 5 of jer 51 is particularly important, I think.

Many REPLACEMENTARIANS contend that Israel has forsaken God so all the PROMISES OF GOD are forfeited.

5: For Israel has not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the Lord of Hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel


34 posted on 05/01/2007 9:46:07 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: redgolum; SJackson

Correct.

I believe there was a thread on FR some time ago. The Jews claiming to be descendants of Aaron were sampled and compared to everyone else. They determined through some process that there was, indeed, a very high probability that the individual claiming such lineage was a valid priestly candidate.


35 posted on 05/01/2007 9:53:03 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: pjr12345

Perhaps you would learn a lot from the National Geographic’s DNA project. You can search out your own ancient ancestoral path across the planet. It’s available at their website.


36 posted on 05/01/2007 9:55:58 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Campion

He had been in charge of many things as Vice President for years before he led a successful coup against the President.


37 posted on 05/01/2007 9:56:52 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Campion; pjr12345

I believe Muzzies will be shocked, too.

However, I also believe God meant what He said when HE SAID that those who earnestly SEEK HIM, shall find Him.

Therefore, it would not surprise me that God turns out to be amazingly merciful to folks of true heart who, doing the best they knew, sought ALMIGHTY GOD in the way they were taught.


38 posted on 05/01/2007 9:58:47 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
Matthew 7:7-8 -- 7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened."

John 14:6 -- 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Yes. If one seeks one shall find. And what they shall find is the only way to the Father: Jesus.

The problem with many muslims is that they are not seeking truth, they are following a lie. Seeking that lie will lead to hell.

39 posted on 05/01/2007 10:11:22 AM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Terrorists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: pjr12345

Agreed.


40 posted on 05/01/2007 10:29:12 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: iowamark

Actually, haven’t had a cell phone since in Taipei in 2002.


41 posted on 05/01/2007 10:32:06 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix; All
A comment from the book re taking Scriptures literally.

Note in Mat 24:1-8 . . . Christ comments about "not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

p 31 ARE WE LIVING IN THE END TIMES:

History records that our Lord's words were fulfilled to the letter in A.D. 70. In that year the Roman army under the command of Titus destroyed the city of Jerusalem. Fires raged through the city and in the temple area itself. After the flames burned themselves out, the soldiers saw that large amounts of gold had melted and flowed into the crevices of the blocks of the temple. In order to recover the precious metal, the Romans had to take the buildings apart, stone by stone. And so Jesus' prophecy was fulfilled literally; not one stone was left upon another.

We can expect the vast majority of prophetic Scriptures yet to be fulfilled to be literally fulfilled to the letter. And, we can expect 100% of those obviously to be taken literally or literally AND symbolically to be fulfilled literally.

I have a difficult time understanding how any other perspective can be considered to be authentically Biblical in any serious sense.

42 posted on 05/01/2007 4:37:13 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

I have always found this sort of thing funny. Despite the fact that God says that we won’t know when the end is coming, there is a certain group that just doesn’t want to believe that. They think they are so in tight with God that surely He will give them advance notice over the heathens.


43 posted on 05/01/2007 4:42:10 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Quix
We can expect the vast majority of prophetic Scriptures yet to be fulfilled to be literally fulfilled to the letter. And, we can expect 100% of those obviously to be taken literally or literally AND symbolically to be fulfilled literally.

I agree with that, but that doesn't mean that anyone can reasonably predict when it is going to happen.

44 posted on 05/01/2007 4:43:15 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Rodney King

Careful, the religious police will pull your comment. BTW, spot on. There are 10 commandments. Didn’t see a date for the end time in there.


45 posted on 05/01/2007 5:01:36 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.)
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To: Rodney King
But there's also a clear indication that He expects us to study so we can know the general time/season/years of such. He chides the pharisees for being able to tell the signs about weather but not 'signs of the times.'

And, He gives us some great clues.

One covered in LaHaye and J's book p 39 involves Mat 24:7-8:

For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places, All these are the beginning of sorrows. (LA&J emphasis added).

Our Lord used two Hebrew idioms here that His Jewish friends would quickly recognize. The first, based on 2 Chronicles 15:1-7 and Isaiah 19:1-2, is "nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (KJV), He was speaking of a war started by two nations, each combatant soon joined by the surrounding kingdoms until all the nations involved in the prophet's vision are included. In Matthew 24 our Lord had the world in view. So He is saying, "When you see a war started by two single nations that is soon joined by the kingdoms of the world--followed by unprecedented famines, pestilence, and multiple earthquakes at the same time--you have the sign."

We submit that is exactly what occurred in June 1914 when the Archduke of Austria, prince Francis Ferdinand was shot by a Serbian zealot in the very area of the world where in these days UN peacekeepers must be stationed to keep the Serbs and Croats from killing eachother. One month later Austria declared war on Serbia, followed shortly by the other kingdoms of the world, until all but seven nations officially joined the conflict (and even the seven "neutral" countries sent mercinaries), At first historians officially called it "the Great War," for indeed, to that point it was the greatest war in human history. The war involved more men in uniform (estimates total 53 million, 13 million of whom were killed) than all the troops in all the wars before it. But it didn't end there . . .

If this were all that happened in 1914-1918, however, it would not be sufficient to fulfill all of our Lord's prophecy. Remember, He added, "There will be famines, pestilences . . . in various places." A look at history reveals that the flue epidemic of 1918 spread throughout Europe, Canada, and the United States and took more lives than were lost on the battlefields. . . .

The authors LaHaye and Jenkins go on to mention earthquakes which happened subsequent to all such--some bigger than for a long time.

However, I do not think that WWI really qualifies. I don't think it meets even their criteria sufficiently dramatically enough to be THE SIGN. I think it still is a major sign that is pending. But they contend that the beginning of sorrows began then.

I believe that the beginning of sorrows could not really come about until Israel had become a Nation again in a day as in 1948.

46 posted on 05/01/2007 6:45:12 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places, All these are the beginning of sorrows

I just don't know how you can possibly see today in that phrase, as opposed to almost any other time in history. Nation against nation? Has happend thousands of times. Kingdom against Kingdom? Happens less now than at any other time in the past since there aren't many kings any more. Earthquakes? There is no sign that they are more prevalent now than at any other time? Famine and pestilence? Way down. Far more common prior to 1900 than now.

47 posted on 05/01/2007 6:54:03 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Rodney King; Dr. Eckleburg; Uncle Chip; Alex Murphy; Alamo-Girl; Jim Robinson; Neil E. Wright; ...
END TIMES PING LIST PING plus extra loved ones. This is a quick summary off the top of my head of events which I believe to be puzzle pieces proving that these are the Biblically predicted END TIMES. They also mention the END TIMES predictions related to the tyrannical socialist world government that is so eagerly waiting and working so hard in the wings via Shrillery & Dillbo Klintoon et al.

I believe that once Israel became a Nation again in a day in 1948, that the END TIMES prophetic clock speeded up. And, that the generation that saw that happen will have at least one member of that generation alive when the concluding acts of the play transpire on the world stage. So, if that contention is accurate, it should mean that the end of history as we have known it will occur before our lifetimes are out.

And, certainly it seems that each year, the speed of such prophetic events increases with more and more data points fitting more and more puzzle pieces into the ending events presented in Scripture for the END TIMES.

For example, just a few off the top of my head:

1. Israel again a nation in a day. No dispersed people ever reconstituted again as a nation before or since.
2. Hebrew as their resurrected language--never happened to any culture before or since.

3. Jerusalem made a heavy burden and focus of the whole world in contrast to it's not being a major center of anything economically or politically.
4. The Mark of the Beast computer chip ID implant is all ready and in use in the USA, Mexico and other locations and could be implemented manditorily world wide within 3-5 years easily--particularly in non rural areas.

5. The global government is functioning very effectively in the shadows and could easily force itself overtly on the world stage at virtually any time.
6. The globalists are satan worshippers.

7. The globalists have effectively begun to destroy Christianity in the public square shockingly effectively. Christians have been punished in Western countries in ways never imagined possible--ALREADY--and the global government is not even overtly in power--yet.
8. The North American Union and other sections of the planet divided up by the puppet masters into 10 regions fits precisely Daniel's vision regarding the satanic ruler and the 10 kings submitted to him.

9. "Even if you build nests among the stars--yet will I bring you down." Never before possible but from that era's idiom, is not possible--the Space Station is there twinkling similar to a star in the night sky.
10. Knowledge has increased so astronomically beyond ever before it abundantly fulfills the prophecy about that--particularly with the net.

11. Running to and fro upon the earth has never been as rampant as it is now in the recorded history that we know of. Again fulfilling another end times prophecy as never before, since the prophecy was given.
12. The Gospel is within a decade and a half or so of being distributed to the last people groups not having it. This is CERTAINLY A HUGE SIGN in and of itself.

13. The globalists have begun their efforts to unify the world's religions [and to hyper activate the world's anger against "fundamentalist" religionists via the Jihadi terror folks who are also serving to scare the world into a world government and to remove guns from the populace].
14. The globalists have succeeded in transforming the founding American Judeo/Christian ethic into the lawlessness prophecies described where good is called evil and evil good.

15. The churches which most dismiss and/or trash Jesus' deity are also the churches most in support of the globalists and their world government agenda.
16. The Nations around the world which most prevent Christ's deity being preached and particularly prevent teaching about the 2nd Coming and END TIMES events are also those countries most in sympathy with the tyrannical socialist goals of the global government.

17. The bioengineered weapons that are probably already in the hands of terrorists as well as the main actors mentioned in biblical prophecies would fulfill very easily the Biblical predictions of pestilence devastations.
19. The weather changes already experienced and certainly those on offing whether due to sun spot cycle extremes or human forces or otherwise have already precipitated famines in some places and look well cocked to produce vastly more famines as well as floods.

20. The rebuilding of the literal city of Babylon as predicted in prophecy but doubted even by many END TIMES ASTUTE prophecy experts has begun. There are convincing reports that the globalists intend to set up the seat of their satanic world government there as Biblically predicted for the END TIMES. I didn't know before that ancient Satanic Babylon was the source of socialism as a form of government as well as the source of the roots of all the pagain religions.
21. The capacity to SEE Christ return all over the world at one time via global TV and the net sets the stage for the first time for that prophecy to be fulfilled.

22. The evidently vastly increased numbers of erupting undersea volcanos is one possible contributor to an increase in heat globally. This is also in keeping with an END TIMES prophecy--as would be some scientific predictions of extreme and unusual sun activity which is projected to destructively add to cancers, heat and other problems vis a vis communications systems.
23. The numbers of rare and/or dramatic astronomical, space born discoveries and events has gone off the scale compared to even 50 years ago--much less 100. This would certainly fit the "signs in the Heavens" prophecy.

24. The countries allied AGAINST ISRAEL fit rather precisely those Biblically predicted to be so in the END TIMES.
25. Israel is beginning to find oil as some feel has been Biblically predicted. They are also spoken of in terms of reaping the wealth of the minerals in the Dead Sea which would be in trillions of dollars.

It feels like I could come up with a number of others but I'll stop there. Clearly there has never before been such a combination of Biblically prophecied events, puzzle pieces in the same era fitting so well the Biblical prophecies. Denial of that fact is . . . well . . . blind denial. That kind of denial will likely in coming months and years be costly in terms of lives . . . and sadly, likely in terms of eternal life.

Christ Himself said to watch, to occupy, to prepare, to be ready with lamps [our lights as believers sharing Christ's light?] full of and with extra oil of Holy Spirit and trimmed, i.e. ready.

In any case, even just in the secularly natural sense, we must be ready for whatever the Jihadi's, the traitorous DIMRATS/socialist/globalists throw at us. Add in their demonized cohorts . . . it is likely increasingly to be--buckle seatbelts time.

We at least do well to be often in Scripture--digesting it and taking it into the fiber and fabric of our being; walking in Holy Spirit; in ongoing dialogue with Jesus--ready for whatever HE directs us to do.

48 posted on 05/01/2007 7:33:33 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Rodney King

That perspective, is not mine.

There are qualitative and numerical differences now in the direction of the Biblically predicted puzzle pieces. But, hey, I have no intention of proving such as in a court of law. I shall lay out enough evidence for those open to seeing such. I have no ability to force every perspective and type of eyesight to see much of anything—regardless of how IN ONE’S FACE the puzzle pieces and facts may be from my perspective.


49 posted on 05/01/2007 7:36:47 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Rodney King; Dr. Eckleburg

But, hey, perhaps you can come up with 25 Biblically sound criteria about 25 events, data points in the Biblically predicted direction—

AT ANY OTHER ERA IN HISTORY—ANY OTHER SET OF COHORT LIFETIME SPAN/GENERATIONAL SPAN.

Let me see YOUR list of 25 such from before say 1900.


50 posted on 05/01/2007 7:38:48 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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