Posted on 05/01/2007 9:24:30 PM PDT by Coleus
Bishop's yoga ban is a stretch, parishioners say, Complaints end classes at south Fort Myers parish
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When practiced strictly as a form of exercise, there’s nothing sinful about yoga. While it’s true that many yoga practitioners are middle-aged hippie/granola-munching suburban types who think it’s “speerchul” to pretend to be Hindus for an hour a week, they don’t force anybody to pray to Ganesh or anything.
My wife does yoga for health reasons (it’s one of the few kinds of physical exercise a lady can do while pregnant), and while the rest of the class does their Hindu meditations or whatever, she just says an Ave and waits for the stretching to resume. Meanwhile, dad (me) sits outside with Baby Chan reading a library book.
As long as priests and bishops are careful to ensure that Hindu or other religious practices are not part of the course of instruction, I see no problem with the holding of yoga classes at a church gym.
Interesting.
Catholic Bishop learns a parish once had a yoga class scheduled at the same time as a church service, though in another room, and that people attending the service could look through a window and see the people doing yoga.
Let’s make this fun and do a multiple choice quiz.
The Catholic Bishop declares:
(a) The church can’t schedule yoga class during church services if the class will be in view of people attending the service.
(b) The church can’t schedule yoga class during church services even if the class cannot be seen by people attending the service.
(c) The church can’t schedule yoga class during church services even if the class can neither be seen nor heard by people attending the service.
(d) Yoga classes are forbidden at all times and under any circumstances, but I swear I have no objection to yoga per se.
Don’t bother reading the article. Just guess ;-)
Do you think it might have something to do with people feeling bummed out about being in church if they can see people having fun doing yoga instead?
I mean, what if instead of doing yoga they were exercising on treadmills with a nice row of 1040P HDTV’s to watch while they work out?
Thanks for that link.
Pope Benedict is a funny guy.
Maybe. I’m not completely comfortable with yoga myself — in its pure form, it’s definitely a religious practice. As practiced in America, it’s more of a light workout with meditative overtones. As long as due care is taken to keep the Hinduism and the stretching separated, yoga is fine. That being said, it’s important for Church officials to keep an eye on yoga. Syncretism is everywhere.
Bestimmt. Er ist der typische Deutscher nicht.
I’ve never, ever heard of anyone “going Hindu” because they took up Yoga.
Is there an epidemic I don’t know about?
His personality isn’t what makes him funny; it just accentuates it.
And what about running on a treadmill while watching ESPN and a game on ABC at the sime time on nice new 1040P HDTV’s?
No connection with Hinduism. Do you think if they were doing that instead of Yoga the Bishop would have been a bit more keen on the whole idea?
Yoga, Transcendental meditation and eastern mysticism are in the crosshairs of the Church. The church has finally woken up to the fact that they are in competition for the minds and hearts and spiritual well being for the New Age seekers.
The power of prayer is not the same thing as the spiritual void of Transcendental Meditation.
TM is inner directed and prepares the mind - through self-directed emptying to be a tool for unseen spiritual forces. TM secures the human body and soul to be a portal. Yoga as an excercise is not the problem - its the other spiritual baggage that is finally being examined and found wanting.
A sign that the Church is waking up from its winter sleep to a new spiritual springtime.
An unidentified woman stumbled upon a Friday morning class and was incensed to see yoga in a church, DiLorenzo said.
The woman returned the next Monday, armed with holy water that she sprinkled on the participants as they started their class.
"This is sinful. This is evil," DiLorenzo recalled her saying.
DiLorenzo and her students had never seen the woman or her companion who handed out leaflets in the parking lot condemning yoga as anti-Christian.
Some fundamentalist Christians object to yoga because of its Eastern spiritual roots and its philosophy of reflecting on the self rather than God.
DiLorenzo said the woman also condemned it as being "sexual."
Gee, she sounds very rational. Who wouldn't take her complaints seriously?
I love the one comment about there being nothing in the Bible that says we can't do yoga. Also very rational.
Since the bishop seems to have responded to the squeaky wheel, maybe they should complain about the complainer and see where that gets them.
I go back and forth on this whole yoga issue.
You are right that no one can force anyone in a yoga class to practice hindu.
On the other hand a good friend of mine is literally losing her mind because of the path that began with yoga.
Yoga stretches are based on an underlying philosophy and religion.
If a person wants to stretch - then what is wrong with simply stretching? Or with a basic workout.
Yoga brings more to the class than just working the body, and I’m sure in most cases there is no harm done.
However, if someone really “gets into it” - like my friend, and pursues yoga with a passion, and manages to release their “kunalinga” energy (do a google search of kunalinga!)
That’s when you get into some pretty scary territory.
As soon as I saw that VOTF had gotten involved in this, I wondered about the accuracy of the report. The article is very confusing, and if the situation was actually this confused, I can understand why the bishop may simply have wanted to put a stop to it.
That’s certainly within his rights and in fact it’s his responsibility. It doesn’t seem that he came out and said anything about yoga in general (which is perfectly harmless if it’s just a form of exercise) but he obviously realized it was causing problems there and decided the easiest thing to do was to put an end to it.
I must say I couldn’t see why they initially had it in the “chapel” - do they mean the Blessed Sacrament chapel? That would have been highly inappropriate. Even for running on a treadmill!
Hindus definitely believe that yoga is a religious practice and they are beginning to get ticked off about its popularity as exercise.
I don’t see any reason why it should be supported by any church. There are many forms of exercise that involve gentle stretching so dropping yoga in favor of something else isn’t exactly a hardship.
Hindus per se have no say in who does yoga. It was invented in Tibet. The posture names are Sanskrit, not Hindi. It’s every bit as much Buddhist as Hindu. Or Christian for that matter.
The question is this: why would a Catholic church offer classes in yoga? Frankly, if they were offering classes in C++, I’d question it, unless, say, the parish had a need for C++ programmers...
>> I’ve never, ever heard of anyone “going Hindu” because they took up Yoga. <<
They don’t go Hindu; they just start confusing Hindu notions with Christian ones.
Incidentally, I have known a few people who went Hindu after taking up Yoga. Most Caucasian Hindus I know started out with Yoga. I also know a couple people who reconverted back to Christianity, after dabbling with Hindiism and New Age through Yoga.
>> Hindus per se have no say in who does yoga. It was invented in Tibet. The posture names are Sanskrit, not Hindi. It’s every bit as much Buddhist as Hindu. Or Christian for that matter. <<
I wasn’t going to hit on the issue of whether Yoga is Hindi or just Buddhist; you’ll note in my last post, however, I noted that those who adopted Eastern religious mentalities after studying yoga just don’t necessarily call themselves Hindi per se.
Buddhism is a faith which, because it lacks certain Theistic doctrines, is readily syncretized into other faiths; and so, yes, yoga can be both Buddhism and Hindi. It certainly is NOT Christian; even Buddhism itself is more compatible with Christianity than yoga.
“They don’t go Hindu; they just start confusing Hindu notions with Christian ones.”
Examples please.
>>>>“They don’t go Hindu; they just start confusing Hindu notions with Christian ones.”<<<<
>>Examples please.<<
Not that I’m blaming this 100% on Yoga, but almost 1 in 5 Americans believe in reincarnation. Then there’s transcendentalism, becoming “one with nature,” etc. Mostly “New Age” is repackaged Hindiism.
“Hindus per se have no say in who does yoga. It was invented in Tibet. The posture names are Sanskrit, not Hindi. It’s every bit as much Buddhist as Hindu. Or Christian for that matter”
Buddhist...yes. Hindu...yes. As these are pantheistic approaches to religion.
Christianity....no.
“Examples please.”
One of my very best friends since we were kids took up yoga about 8 yrs. ago.
Slowly her definition of what is “divine” began to change.
The purpose of her meditation was to become one with the divine - and the divine exists in everything, and the divine IS everything - animate and inanimate.
It is classic pantheism.
The purpose - in the end - is to become divine - just like the serpent described to Adam and Eve.
There isn’t a personal loving God who we need to reconcile with...no - in order to unite with the divine we must remember “who” we really are. We do this through hours of intense meditation - channelling the chakra energy, seeking out “spirit guides”, releasing the kunalinga energy (energy that is coiled like a serpent at the base of your spine)
I kid you not.
This is the mildest of what she has shared with me.
Lately her messages to me would make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck.
There isn’t much room here for christian belief at all.
I’ll take pilates over yoga anytime.
If your friend is meditating hoping to become "one with the divine" she is wasting her time.
You don't "become" one with the divine. You might realize what you are.
It's Kundalini, not kunalinga. And only a fool would try to "channel" it.
yes - I just realized I got that wrong....kundalini is what I meant.
I am not arguing against meditation, I am arguing against yoga.
Yoga isn’t simply meditation...it is meditation based on a set of underlying principals which reflect a pantheistic system of beliefs.
Anyone can meditate on anything they care to.
Maybe there are yoga classes that do not attempt to push the “oneness” issue, but from what I hear from friends and family who have taken it, this often is presented (and why not? it’s yoga afterall)
As far as a fool channeling kundalini...maybe so - but those that attempt it are told they have reached a certain level of spiritual maturity. They are taught how to “handle” it - or convince themselves they can handle it.
My friend justifies it by saying the knowledge she has gained from it outweighs the risk.
scratch that...it’s not kunalinga...it’s kundalini.
A serpentine energy coiled at the base of the spine.
It WAS yoga!!
Yoga is not just about stretching.
Stretching is about stretching...pilates is about stretching and strength.
Yoga is based on underlying spiritual principles.
She became so enthralled with the health benefits of yoga she decided she wanted to become an instructor.
She started attending retreats and certification seminars.
This is where she was introduced to transcental meditation.
from there on it got stranger and stranger, and her story is not unique. There are many stories like hers out there you can read about with a good google search.
I went to a Yoga class with my wife once....ONCE!
It was pretty much the exact same thing as all of the stretching exercises we used to do before soccer practice.
If yoga is to blame, then everyone who does or has ever done yoga (including me) is at risk.
Since the vast majority of us are sane, your contention would seem overstated.
If it weren’t yoga, very likely something else would have caused your friend to go off the deep end . . . friendly local “Wiccans” or the Secret or TM or the Forum or some such.
No, it wasn’t. You are now very likely insane from being exposed to yoga. Check yourself into rehab immediately before you start rejecting the triune God.
(/sarc)
Not everyone takes yoga to it’s logical end.
Not everyone is going to become so enamored with it that they research it’s true fundamental principles and make it a guiding force in how they approach life.
So yes...for most people they are going in, doing a little balancing, a little stretching, a little breathing.
That doesn’t mean yoga is “good” - heck...anyone can balance, stretch, and breath without having to name the poses after hindu gods.
what it means is that most people taking the classes are not going to follow yoga the same distance down the spiritual path my friend has.
everything she has learned, she has learned from yoga “masters” - those who are experts in yoga.
She is a very well respected instructor with a thriving business.
“You are now very likely insane from being exposed to yoga”
Where did I say that? Why do you feel you have to exaggerate what I’m saying?
I never said everyone who does yoga will wind up crazy.
I am saying yoga is based on spiritual priniciples which are at odds with christianity.
Because my friend has immersed herself in this religion, and because she is messing around with this “kundalini” energy - THAT is why she is becoming less “stable.”
Don’t take my word for it...research it on your own and you will see many stories like it.
Oh, classes:-) They usually cost money.
Odd, isn't it, that these classes teaching "oneness" have assumed the concept of two? This isn't Yoga, I think.
“Odd, isn’t it, that these classes teaching “oneness” have assumed the concept of two?”
I hadn’t thought of it that way before, but you’re right.
“Not that I’m blaming this 100% on Yoga, but almost 1 in 5 Americans believe in reincarnation.”
Heh. You think Yoga has anything to do with that?
Not that I blaim Catholicism for it, but Catholicism has more to do with it than Yoga. Yoga doesn’t make people credulous. And it doesn’t select for them either.
“One of my very best friends since we were kids took up yoga about 8 yrs. ago. Slowly her definition of what is “divine” began to change.”
What was going on in her life besides Yoga?
“One of my very best friends since we were kids took up yoga about 8 yrs. ago.”
Off topic, but is she hot?
I’m not sure what your type is, so I don’t know if you would think she is “hot” or not.
She is thin and fit and looks a bit like Princess Diana.
She had typical things going on in her life...marriage, kids - she had typical losses in life (grandmother) that may have set her on the road of questions we all wrestle with.
Sounds good to me.
Check out some of the India/Catholic threads. It IS an epidemic there.
hey i read all the posts here and i must tell u that i am an Indian and a Hindu too. and i think u r blaming too much on yoga. its not a 1 day or even 1 yr deal to get to ur so called kundilini energy feeling stage or whatever.it may take decades of hard work to do that and its not for ppl like us who live a normal life with the so called “worldly attractions”.for ppl like u its just a normal workout and if u feel guilt than i recommend that u shouldnt do it anymore cause its about calmness of ur mind when u do yoga which u cant get if u think u r committing a sin.and as far as the conversion to Hinduism is concerned there isnt anyway for anyone to convert to “Hindus” as its the oldest religion and there weren’t any religions around to convert ppl to like Christians and muslims normally did in the history or even today namely “converting ppl”.
and i really doubt that theory that kundilini energy is like a serpent or whatever.well many teachings in Christianity and for muslims r opposite to that of Hindus and i wont deny that cause in ancient times Hinduism was widespread to middle east and even Russia.recently some Hindu idols were excavated in an old very populous town of Russia.
so its obvios that the proponents of newly found religions of muslims and Christians will try to go against the pre-established religions.
well what i am saying is that nobody is asking u to do yoga or convert to Hinduism .u just should not go against yoga .
Ballet is better for stretching than anything else including Tai Chi and Yoga.
The interesting part about Christianity is that it isn't a set of beliefs as much as a REACTION to the birth, death and physical resurrection of the son of the God of Moses.
That said, one must ask how the God of Moses relates to the Gods in Hinduism. Why does the God of Moses insist on being the "one God"? Is there an alignment of "Gods" in heaven - a pecking order - a hierarchy? Could the God of moses be in charge or in a war with other Gods? Does any of this mean a hill of beans to hindu scholars for whom the "Time of the Gods" stopped several millenia ago?
The son of the so called one true god was born not in India but among a people that were segregated and genetically manipulated as a population. They were instructed to carry out "ethnic cleansing" against their neighboring palestinians several thousands of years ago for the express purpose of reducing genetic contamination from other "gods".
India is very far from Christianization as a whole since the sense of a "new and current history" is impossible. The Time of the Gods is set in the past and is not now currently active - in the mindset of Hinduism.
If an ancient God returned to India today the Scholars and priests would be empowered. If the angels of heaven descended in India today there would be controversy. If Christ or Mary appeared in India today there would be denial of fact.
Hindus pride themselves on their rationality but have yet to grapple with historical facts two thousand years old. Christ was very clear about who he was or is and where he came from and where is was going. There were more written eyewitness accounts about his life than about any Hindu deities. Go Figure.
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