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McGreevey to Enter Episcopal Seminary
New York Times ^ | May 3, 2007 | THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted on 05/04/2007 12:26:52 PM PDT by fgoodwin

The nation's first openly gay governor has become an Episcopalian and been accepted into a seminary, according to a published report.

Former Gov. James E. McGreevey, who was raised as a Roman Catholic, was officially received into the Episcopal religion on Sunday at St. Bartholomew's Church in New York, said the Rev. Kevin Bean, vicar at the church.

McGreevey has been accepted to study at the General Theological Seminary in New York, the oldest in the Episcopal Church, school spokesman Bruce Parker said Wednesday. Parker did not know whether the former governor wants to become a priest.

''Mr. McGreevey has been admitted to the master of divinity program and he will be starting in the fall,'' Parker said. ''Where Mr. McGreevey goes with this is up to him. We have a lot of people studying here who are not interested in ordination at all.'' Growing up in Middlesex County, McGreevey was an altar boy and attended Catholic schools. While in office, he continued to practice the religion, but differed from church teachings in several areas, including his support of abortion rights.

Religion has become an issue in his contentious divorce proceedings. His estranged wife, Dina Matos McGreevey, has demanded that their 5-year-old daughter not be allowed to receive communion in the Episcopal Church because she is being raised a Roman Catholic.

The issue of gay clergy has exposed divides in the worldwide Anglican Communion, which includes the Episcopal Church in the United States. Anglican leaders this year demanded the U.S. denomination step back from its support of gays or risk losing its full membership in the Anglican fellowship.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: adultery; anglican; anglicancommunion; apostasy; apostates; catholic; catholicchurch; ecusa; episcopalchurch; episcopalians; gaypriests; heresy; heretics; homosexualagenda; mcgreevey; priesthood; romancatholic; seminary; tec

1 posted on 05/04/2007 12:26:56 PM PDT by fgoodwin
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To: Huber

Please ping your Anglican list.

Thanx


2 posted on 05/04/2007 12:27:28 PM PDT by fgoodwin (Fundamentalist, right-wing nut and proud father of a Star Scout!)
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To: fgoodwin

The Episcopal church has become the church of liberalism rather than the church of Jesus. It makes sense that McGreevey would be welcomed with open arms. Maybe they will take in Al Gore too and have “An Inconvenient Truth” in their pews instead of Bibles.


3 posted on 05/04/2007 12:35:27 PM PDT by dan1123 (You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. --Jesus)
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To: dan1123

He joined the religion almost a week ago. Yeah, that should be enough time to be accepted to the priesthood.

Apart from the sex stuff, the other sleaze that went on in his administration is no problem either I guess. Pretty sad. If he were a conservative though, he’d be out of luck.


4 posted on 05/04/2007 12:41:06 PM PDT by TNCMAXQ
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To: fgoodwin

Is this like being thrown into the briarpatch ?


5 posted on 05/04/2007 1:33:30 PM PDT by stylin19a (It's easier to get up at 6:00 AM to play golf than at 10:00 to mow the yard)
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To: fgoodwin

If McGreevey’s daughter is being raise Roman Catholic, she shouldn’t be receiving communion from the Episcopal Church. To do so would be excommunicating herself from the Catholic Church. I’m sure her father knows that.


6 posted on 05/04/2007 3:30:40 PM PDT by toothfairy86
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To: toothfairy86
If McGreevey’s daughter is being raise Roman Catholic, she shouldn’t be receiving communion from the Episcopal Church. To do so would be excommunicating herself from the Catholic Church. I’m sure her father knows that.

If he knows, then perhaps he should study Matthew 18:6:

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

7 posted on 05/04/2007 3:38:42 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (The most dangerous place in the world is between Hillary and the Oval Office)
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To: toothfairy86; Frank Sheed; NYer; Salvation; AnAmericanMother

Can one of you clarify RC doctrine on excommunication in response to TF86’s comment?


8 posted on 05/04/2007 3:43:40 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: fgoodwin; ahadams2; sionnsar; Alice in Wonderland; BusterBear; DeaconBenjamin2; Way4Him; Peach; ...
Thanks to fgoodwin for the ping.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail Huber if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by Huber.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com
Humor: The Anglican Blue

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[The gray lady breathlessly weighs in...Meanwhile back at 815, attempts to also recruit Peewee Herman and Paris Hilton continue --Huber]

9 posted on 05/04/2007 3:53:22 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Huber
She would not be excommunicated, she's too young to be guilty of mortal sin. (Seven is generally considered the age. Friend of mine told her little brother on his seventh birthday, "Happy Birthday! Now you can go to Hell!")

Since the child is supposed to be raised Catholic, however, the xGov should not allow her to receive in the Episcopal church. Aside from the doctrinal differences that have always existed, that church is now completely heretical and to receive there would be affirming all the nonsense the church is up to these days.

Like admitting to seminary a guy who joined the church last week . . .

(Sweet Holy Jesus on a Bicycle!)


10 posted on 05/04/2007 3:55:26 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Huber
Dear Huber,

I have a sense of needing to apologize to Episcopalians in general for this turn of events.

* Sorry *


sitetest

11 posted on 05/04/2007 4:00:07 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I clearly don’t see a problem with receiving Communion in a church, if you are a believer and accept the doctrine of what it means. Why would it matter?


12 posted on 05/04/2007 4:01:32 PM PDT by secret garden (Dubiety reigns here)
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To: fgoodwin; All

I’d like to know where he went to school in Middlesex County, NJ. Does anyone know?


13 posted on 05/04/2007 4:02:49 PM PDT by secret garden (Dubiety reigns here)
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To: secret garden
That's the problem.

Catholics believe that during the Eucharist the bread and wine becomes the actual Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, of Christ.

Most Episcopalians do not believe that. The very High Church Piskies do (I was one before I became a Catholic), but then you have the additional problem of the invalidity of Anglican orders due to the change in the consecration of bishops under Edward VI. No Apostolic Succession, no valid Eucharist.

So a Catholic receiving in another denomination would be acting a lie, so to speak, because you're acting as though it makes no difference -- when it does.

That's also why non-Catholics don't receive in the Catholic church, because they don't believe what Catholics believe and, again, it's acting a lie.

14 posted on 05/04/2007 4:08:13 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I’m not going to argue apostolic succession. Most Episcopalians I know do believe in transubstantiation. I’ve been on both sides of this issue and heard all the arguments of man but God hasn’t changed. And that’s what is truly important.


15 posted on 05/04/2007 5:36:19 PM PDT by secret garden (Dubiety reigns here)
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To: secret garden
It depends on whether you're low or high, I suppose. Many do not believe in transubstantiation, but that is probably because my former ECUSA diocese is historically "low".

You asked a question; I gave you the answer. I'm not trying to argue, just to give you the reason a Catholic should not receive in a Protestant church or vice versa.

16 posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:41 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: secret garden
I’ve been on both sides of this issue and heard all the arguments of man but God hasn’t changed. And that’s what is truly important.

Amen!

17 posted on 05/04/2007 5:51:17 PM PDT by proud_2_B_texasgal
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To: fgoodwin

The nation’s first openly gay governor

Oh Please, NYT.....”openly gay” is what your punk publisher is......this faggot got jerked out of his closet....that’s why his wife is now most likely sleeping with a Man, nowadays!


18 posted on 05/04/2007 6:41:11 PM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: Huber

My point was that McGreevy is aware that his daughter shouldn’t be receiving communion from the Episcopal Church, when his ex-wife clearly intends for the child to be raised Catholic. I think he’s doing this out of spite. Because of the girl’s age, she probably won’t be “excommunicated” per se, because her parents are responsible for guiding the girl’s religious upbringing. The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches generally forbid their members from receiving Communion in churches of other denominations.


19 posted on 05/04/2007 6:46:28 PM PDT by toothfairy86
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To: fgoodwin

And he’s going to teach a graduate class in ethics at Kean University. It’s nice to see him doing something so positive after all he’s been through.

Mrs.


20 posted on 05/04/2007 7:55:21 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: toothfairy86; All

I keep waiting for someone to say that Communion for children is not a part of Episcopal practice.

You must be confirmed in the church at a later age...and free choice.

Anyone else confused by this...it seems a non-issue which the Mother does not understand.


21 posted on 05/04/2007 8:03:30 PM PDT by 3D-JOY
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To: AnAmericanMother

Did I miss something?

The story says he will study there. This is just a higher education opportunity...not a path to “PRIESTHOOD”.

I am afraid a lot is being read into this story...that is not there.

I am, however very sorry to see that the church has accepted this situation...I believe it makes the point...”follow the money”.

Is this worse than all the schools who accept foreign students at FULL tuition or Rehabs accepting money for weird reasons including privacy?


22 posted on 05/04/2007 8:13:38 PM PDT by 3D-JOY
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To: 3D-JOY
I keep waiting for someone to say that Communion for children is not a part of Episcopal practice.

Used to be true but not any more. I'm in my 50s - when I was a kid you had to be confirmed at about age 12 or 13 before you could receive. Before that age, you left church after the sermon (the "Mass of the Catechumens" in Catholic parlance) to go to Sunday School.

But sometime between then and when my daughter was about six (she's 18 now) the church changed to the Catholic practice of First Communion at about age 6 or 7, long before Confirmation. They had a "First Communicants Class" and then received like everybody else.

So this is most definitely an issue, and if the XGuv is running true to form and being a treacherous hound, the mom is right to worry.

23 posted on 05/04/2007 8:16:03 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: 3D-JOY
Other sources than the NYT say he's studying for the priesthood.

This story is all over the Anglican/continuing blogs.

I am very, very glad that I am observing this horrific train wreck from a safe vantage point on a hill, rather than from inside one of the passenger cars . . . we swam the Tiber after GC 2003.


24 posted on 05/04/2007 8:25:25 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I guess you have more facts than I do from this reading.

Did Gore ever plan to be a priest when in Seminary? I think not.

I was high church and am over 70...thought it was still the same.

Can “just anyone” take communion today? Not unless confirmed in the church before.

Cannon Cowdery was always making people mad in the “old days” when he refused them at the rail.

I read about the craziness now and see why I “drifted away”.


25 posted on 05/04/2007 8:51:00 PM PDT by 3D-JOY
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To: 3D-JOY
Gore went to seminary simply so he could leave Vietnam early (it was a deferment in those days). He flunked out after a very short time, too.

Maybe the XGuv will do the same thing and solve the problem himself.

Any baptized Christian can receive in ECUSA. We moved from a very "high" church to a moderately "high" church in the 80s -- and so far as I recall this was the practice even then at our new church. Some ECUSA churches now allow "open communion" - anybody who wants to can receive, I guess Buddhists and pagans qualify now.

If you're very "high", have you looked into the Catholic church? Theologically there is actually very little difference, other than acknowledging that there was a problem with Anglican Orders around the time of Edward VI . . . . Apostolicae Curae always did bother me a little, I thought Canterbury and York's response in Sapius Officio was weak. There's a great book by an Englishman, Canon Francis Ripley, addressed specifically to Anglicans/Episcopalians. And of course Cardinal Newman's wonderful autobiography.

We have been extremely happy in our new parish. You do have to be a little careful, because there are some loons left over from the 60s and 70s still running some Catholic parishes out there, but ours is a reverent and traditional church (and the music is surprisingly good!)

26 posted on 05/04/2007 9:01:45 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Thanks for the information.

No, the Catholic church would not be an answer for me. I thought there were very many other differences in beliefs, even if the traditions were similar.

I guess I will go on as I have for many years.

I often feel the Republican party has left me behind too! LOL

Now I lay me down to sleep...night-night.


27 posted on 05/04/2007 9:14:52 PM PDT by 3D-JOY
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To: fgoodwin

Just wait and watch. This guy is going to re-enter politics with his newly purchased moral authority.

He had to pick between the unitarians and the episcopalians. He chose the episcopalians because there are more potential voters, AND he might fool some real christians into voting for him.


28 posted on 05/04/2007 9:48:55 PM PDT by pjr12345 (What is it about "The Radicaleftists want to kill us!" don't you people understand?)
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To: secret garden
Because Catholics don't believe what Episcopalians do...that's why. Catholics believs that Holy Communion IS the Body and Blood of Christ....Episcopalians just think of it as a SYMBOL of the Body and Blood of Christ......HUGE DIFFERENCE!!

May I ask what religion you are? I'm guessing not any Christian denomination or you wouldn't have been quite so cavalier about your response.

29 posted on 05/04/2007 9:53:50 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: secret garden

No, God certainly has NOT changed.....Henry VIII changed the religion from Catholic to Anglican/Episcopalian because he wanted a divorce, and it has gone “Lighter” ever since.


30 posted on 05/04/2007 9:56:17 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

You ARE kidding, right?


31 posted on 05/04/2007 9:58:10 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: Suzy Quzy

Yeah, feeling snarky tonight, so I left off the /sarcasm.

Mrs VS


32 posted on 05/04/2007 10:04:13 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor

Thank God!!! Thought ANOTHER Freeper went braindead....glad to see you didn’t!! :)


33 posted on 05/04/2007 10:07:59 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: 3D-JOY
Good morning! I beat you to night-night as it turns out.

What specific differences in belief do you think exist? When we converted I only found two -- the validity of Anglican orders and the supremacy of the Pope. I didn't have any problem with either one, because as to No. 1 the goings on in the ECUSA plainly demonstrate that they don't have God's blessing on their shenanigans and thus probably their orders are invalid . . . and as for No. 2 the ECUSA would be doing much better if it had Adult Leadership and the ABC could deliver a smackdown to Vicki Gene, KJSchori, and all the rest. . . .

If you're "high", you've been ignoring the XXXIX Articles for years. Unless you're high in ritual only, in which case I guess you're really "broad church".

Seriously, you might want to look into it. There's a big difference between what everybody THINKS the Catholic Church believes, and what its doctrine actually IS. People have got some serious misconceptions going on. And some of the worst offenders are Episcopalians.

34 posted on 05/05/2007 8:25:28 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Suzy Quzy
Actually, some "high church" Piskies do believe in Transubstantiation (I used to be one.)

The XXIX Articles (the charter I guess you would say of the Anglican church) are very anti-Catholic (Edward VI again, or at least his radical Protestant advisers, Edward was really too young to have any say in things, he died at age 14 or 15), but the high churchers have been studiously ignoring them ever since the days of the Oxford Movement and the Tractarians. I certainly did!

35 posted on 05/05/2007 8:46:48 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: 3D-JOY; sionnsar; AnAmericanMother
The Anglican Catholic Church continues to require confirmation prior to Communion. Other Continuing Anglican churches may do the same.

Here is a link to resources including Traditional Anglican churches:

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

36 posted on 05/05/2007 9:56:20 AM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: 3D-JOY; sionnsar; AnAmericanMother
The Anglican Catholic Church continues to require confirmation prior to Communion. Other Continuing Anglican churches may do the same.

Here is a link to resources including Traditional Anglican churches:

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

37 posted on 05/05/2007 9:56:22 AM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: toothfairy86

Understood. I was seeking clarity regarding at what age the child would be expected to understand the sin and to act independently of McGreevy’s direction.


38 posted on 05/05/2007 11:40:14 AM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Huber

Not true.


39 posted on 05/05/2007 11:51:28 AM PDT by fatima (Free (((Hugs))) today.)
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To: Huber; Suzy Quzy; VeritatisSplendor
I was seeking clarity regarding at what age the child would be expected to understand the sin and to act independently of McGreevy’s direction.

I think around age seven, is that right, guys?

A five year old child will not be penalized, so to speak, for disobeying her "parent".

But if McGreevy is deliberately using her as a pawn to get back at his wife, and undermining the child's Catholic education to do so, he might want to consider the possibility that he may be fitted for a millstone by St. Peter . . . Matthew 18:6/Mark 9:42/Luke 17:2

40 posted on 05/05/2007 5:17:15 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Seven is the age of reason. God will not punish the child but He WILL zap the dad if McSleazy goes against what the mom wants.


41 posted on 05/05/2007 5:58:37 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Speaking as the mother of young children - the youngest being 5 and 10, I find it hard to believe that God would hold a 7 y.o. in any way accountable for this.

At seven, most children’s religious understanding consists of what their parents tell them and no more. They want to please their parents and have their love - to keep the commandment. The child could be in the middle of a nasty parental tug-of-war; the parents could be total compromisers; religious education classes at this age are not at all rigorous. A child simply doesn’t have the intellectual sophistication to understand the issue at stake.

If there’s any argument the child’s going to go through “Your father’s church is a false church.” “Your mother’s church is a hive of intolerant bigots.”

Mrs VS


42 posted on 05/05/2007 6:28:15 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Millstone.

Neck.

Sea.

43 posted on 05/05/2007 6:29:44 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Many do not believe in transubstantiation...

Just to pick a slight nit, when I was Episcopal/Anglican (high), I firmly believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, but did not (necessarily) believe the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation.

Transubstantiation is an attempt to explain a profound mystery using scholastic reasoning.

Now that I am Orthodox, I still do not necessarily believe the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation. Transubstantiation does not automatically equate with "real presence." I don't know how the elements become the real body and blood of Our Lord; all I know is that they do.

44 posted on 05/05/2007 7:18:02 PM PDT by Martin Tell ("It is the right, good old way you are in: keep in it.")
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To: Suzy Quzy

I was raised Roman Catholic and attended Catholic schools from K-12. Cavalier in my response? Hardly. I might assume from your response that you have very little knowledge of the Episcopalian religion. However, I don’t think it wise to make assumptions based on a post. Have a peaceful night.


45 posted on 05/05/2007 8:52:41 PM PDT by secret garden (Dubiety reigns here)
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