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To: narses
You do, as an individual, what the Council of Trent did as an Apostolic Authority. You have no such authority. They did.

Have you ever read the bible?

Matthew 7:1-5

   1.  "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
 2.  For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
 3.  "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
 4.  How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
 5.  You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

  (A warning to judge correctly in support of this scripture
John 7:24  24.  Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." )

* 1 Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges ~all~ things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
* 1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
 11.  But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
 12.  What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
 13.  God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

Scripture tells us to judge and how to judge.  

34 posted on 05/09/2007 4:00:23 PM PDT by ears_to_hear
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To: ears_to_hear

How then is Trent not doing just that, AND with Apostolic Authority (again, an authority you lack)? More - while you may be called not to associate with the public and persistent sinner, where are you called on to publish your opinion?


35 posted on 05/09/2007 4:02:53 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: ears_to_hear
Scripture tells us to judge and how to judge

God dose not abandon or orphan us, He loves us as His children. He is our Father and the perfect, loving Father He left for us a visible Church which has authority, in fact in matters of the faith , perfect authority.

If you take a look Matthew 18:15-17, you will find that it is the Church that has the authority to settle disputes. Like wise, it is the Church alone that is promised perfection, take a look at Matthew 16:18, what is hell but imperfection made present, it is the embodiment of all that is not perfect. The Church, as Christ promised is perfect (its members, however are sinners, every one). But where is the Church? She is with Peter and the Apostles, they alone were given the power to bind and loose, and peter alone was given the keys and a particular commission to feed and teach His sheep and lambs.

The Revelation of the fullness of the message of salvation flows only through Christ to His Apostles and the Church, this is not to say that you and other believers are not in possession to some understanding of the Gospel, but it is an understanding burdened by a self imposed limitation, specifically the abandonment of the Church in favor of the novel idea of sola scriptura. Take for example your use of 1 Corinthians in reference to the authority to judge, it is no wonder that you made no use of the fourth chapter of that book, it serves you not. We are called to judge that which can be observed objectively, but not in the role of the Eternal Judge but for our own good, avoidance, and for the good of the sinner, to help call that sinner out of darkness ( a work of grace, the kind James wrote about).

God gave us the Church, through which He gave us the full canon of Scripture, a tool which the Church uses to instruct us on the good news of salvation, such a tool should not be used to whack a brother about for sport or self aggrandizement.

72 posted on 05/09/2007 8:54:29 PM PDT by conservonator (Pray for those suffering)
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