How the Protestant "Reformers" violated the integrity of Scripture

http://www.sspxseminary.org/apologetics/church/True_Religion/integrity.shtml ^ | Unknown | Saint Francis DE Sales

[stfassisi]

Saint Francis De Sales- Pray for us!

[Lurker]

since a good part of Scripture itself is only Tradition reduced to writing, with an infallible assistance of the Holy Spirit...

And several bottles of wine or beer....

L

[stfassisi]

We need more people with the zeal of Saint Francis De Sales in the Church today!

[Alex Murphy]

But I inform you that the holy Council of Trent does not reject translations in the vulgar tongue printed by the authority of the Ordinaries; only it commands (Reg. iv. Indicis.) that we should not begin to read them without leave of superiors. This is a very reasonable precaution against putting this sharp and two-edged sword ( Heb. iv. 12) into the hands of one who might kill himself therewith. But of this we will speak by and by.

The Church, then, does not approve that everybody who can read, without further assurance of his capacity than that which he persuades himself of in his own presumption, should handle this sacred memorial, nor truly is it right that she should so approve.

So much for those claims that the Catholic Church encouraged Bible reading among the layfolk at the time of the Reformation.

[RobbyS]

I like this remark:

For God’s sake take care that your judgment does not deceive you. Why, I pray you, do you call false, things which the whole of antiquity has held as articles of faith? Why do you not rather censure your fancies which will not embrace the doctrine of these books, than censure these books which have been received for so long a time because they do not jump with your humor? Because you will not believe what the books teach, you condemn it; why do you not rather condemn your presumption which is incredulous to their teaching?

I think it is what should be sent to all those Biblical scholars who push forward the histoico-critical method as though it provides an necessary key.

[Pyro7480]

We need more people with the zeal of Saint Francis De Sales in the Church today!

Amen! He's my favorite Doctor of the Church, and my favorite saint after Our Lady and St. Joseph.

[stfassisi]

Then what reason is there that the Holy Spirit should give inspirations as to what every one must believe to nobodies, to Luther, to Calvin, they having abandoned without any such inspiration the Councils and the entire Church. We do not deny, to speak clearly, but that the knowledge of the true sacred books is a gift of the Holy Spirit, but we say that the Holy Spirit gives it to private individuals through the medium of the Church. Indeed if God had a thousand times revealed a thing to a private person we should not be obliged to believe it unless he stamped it so clearly that we could no longer call its validity in question. But we see nothing of this among your reformers. In a word, it is to the Church General that the Holy Spirit immediately addresses his inspirations and persuasions, then, by the preaching of the Church, he communicates them to private persons. It is the Spouse in whom the milk is produced, then the children suck it from her breasts. But you would have it, on the contrary, that God inspires private persons, and by these means the Church, that the children receive the milk and the mother is nourished at their breasts; an absurdity.

I,m not meaning to pick on you Dear Brother,but what part of the above quote do you not agree with?

[gondramB]

“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Then when we fall short we ask forgiveness in the name of the Son who came to redeem us.

All the rest is details.

[Alex Murphy]

Then what reason is there that the Holy Spirit should give inspirations as to what every one must believe to nobodies, to Luther, to Calvin, they having abandoned without any such inspiration the Councils and the entire Church.

...what part of the above quote do you not agree with?

I can think of at least two things (and possibly as many as five) that I don't agree with, just in the first sentence alone.

[ears_to_hear]

The Church, then, does not approve that everybody who can read, without further assurance of his capacity than that which he persuades himself of in his own presumption, should handle this sacred memorial, nor truly is it right that she should so approve.

So much for those claims that the Catholic Church encouraged Bible reading among the layfolk at the time of the Reformation.

This article is worth saving :)

[stfassisi]

Luther and Calvin contradict each other on many things.
You have 2000 years of consistency verses 500 years of inconsistencies.
1 church still stands(The Catholic Church).The other is divided into 30,000 plus(protestant)

There is only one Holy Spirit and Truth!

Oh well,dear Brother,No need to beat a dead horse.Right?

I wish you a Blessed Day!

[OLD REGGIE]

I like this remark:

For God’s sake take care that your judgment does not deceive you. Why, I pray you, do you call false, things which the whole of antiquity has held as articles of faith?

For God's sake take care that your judgment does not deceive you. Why, I pray you, do you call true, things which the whole of antiquity has not held as articles of faith?

[OLD REGGIE]

"You have 2000 years of consistency..."

Consistency in what? Papal practices? Papal Bulls? The method of choosing "Popes"? The Catholic Church's toward the Jews? Non-Catholics?

There was no need for the so-called Counter-Reformation?

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Saint Francis De Sales- Pray for us!

I'd rather Jesus do my advocating with the Father.

[RobbyS]

A little different don’t you think, to contradict what has been said, and to contradict what has not been said?

[RobbyS]

As opposed to the consistency of the teachings and practices of the Reformers? They made a virtue out of inconsistency.

[stfassisi]

Consistency in what?

The Sacraments, the dogmatic teaching on protection of human life from conception til natural death etc.....

[Alex Murphy]

1 church still stands(The Catholic Church).The other is divided into 30,000 plus(protestant)

You know, we used to have a million plus denominations, having enjoyed a 25,000% growth rate earlier this year. I guess we must have healed a significant number of those "divisions" since last March, in order to bring the number back down!

Then again, I have to question the data behind this. Why? Because I've had Catholics tell me - with a straight face - that they include Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and even Rastafarians (!) in their list of Protestant denominations. What I've never seen, however, is an exhaustive list that shows the names of all of these (alleged) 30,000 denominations. I trust you have yours handy. Perhaps you could share it with us?

Pinging AlaninSA and FourtySeven, as I've used their posts from other threads in the above.

[OLD REGGIE]

A little different don’t you think, to contradict what has been said, and to contradict what has not been said?

Of course. Also, of course, that is not what I said or implied.

Is it possible that you have invented a new definition of "all" similar to your invention of a new definition of "unanimous"?

Unanimous Consent Of The Fathers

The Unanimous Consent of the Fathers (unanimem consensum Patrum) refers to the morally unanimous teaching of the Church Fathers on certain doctrines as revealed by God and interpretations of Scripture as received by the universal Church. The individual Fathers are not personally infallible, and a discrepancy by a few patristic witnesses does not harm the collective patristic testimony.

The word "unanimous" comes from two Latin words: únus, one + animus, mind. "Consent" in Latin means agreement, accord, and harmony; being of the same mind or opinion. Where the Fathers speak in harmony, with one mind overall-not necessarily each and every one agreeing on every detail but by consensus and general agreement-we have "unanimous consent". The teachings of the Fathers provide us with an authentic witness to the apostolic tradition.

Continue with your magic definitions.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Thank you.

Also, I could never accept the idea of having to confess my sins to a man who is just as fallen as I am; who is not qualified to forgive my offenses against Almighty God.

If all the Reformation had accomplished was to eliminate that, it was well worth it.