Posted on 05/16/2007 1:51:59 PM PDT by Friar Roderic Mary
God created all that is. Evil does not have a real existence - it is the absence of that which was created, that which is good, that which has real existence: the good.
This is why evil brings such suffering - evil rejects the good, the eternal, that which is of God. Thus evil is a great void. Man, who was created for good, was not made for this rejection of the good, and so evil brings great sufferings to man. If man, in his God-given freedom, rejects God finally, his eternal soul is in a state of eternal contradiction to what is, and to what is good. This eternal contradiction is eternal destruction of an eternal soul - thus, the “everlasting flames” of hell - because what is contrary to God cannot stand.
I never said otherwise. I'm not talking about sin. I'm talking about hell that you seem to deny God has created. Hell is a place. It can't have existed unless God created it.
This is what happens when the only thing a person focuses on is the love and grace of God. They are there to be sure but so is judgment and wrath. People want to accept heaven but deny hell. Sorry, but God made them both.
It’s not a matter of philosophy. It’s along the lines of purpose
I brought up philosophy, because it supplies the definitions of all the terms that we are using. I want to make sure we mean the same thing.
But it is not only that. If one has a faulty philosophy (especially metaphysics), then there Theology is going to be wrong also
You also used the word purpose, and I agree, the purpose of the Mass is to perpetuate in time the one sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross on Calvary, It is that one and same sacrifice. Obviously there is not 'bloody; crucifixion going on on the altar, hence is is an 'unbloody' sacrifice, but still the same sacrifice.
Let me take this all a step further; Why did God change the sacrifice from a bloody sacrifice to an unbloody sacrifice, if the bloody sacrifice fulfilled its 'purpose perfectly?
You will probably say that it is because Jesus cannot die again, and this is true, but also it is not so easy for the average person to sit through a real life crucifixion. Many saints have said that the reason Christ remains in the form of bread, is so that people may approach Him with confidence.
So the change from bloody to unblooody was so that Gods people could participate (I use that word in its proper perspective) in the sacrifice of Christ. So could the Church not also make changes in order for the people of God to be able to participate in a more perfect way?
I admit, that i don't know if this has actually happened, but I have not been put in the position by God to make these decisions, so i continue to trust in His guidance of His Bride the Church.
JMJ
God created the POSSIBILITY for hell. Lucifer sinned thus hell became a real place.Thus satan owns hell
God does not own hell.satan does. It was not a place until sin happened.
I,m not saying hell is not a place.
I,m saying it would not be a place if lucifer had not sinned.
Eucharist has replaced the bloody animal sacrifices of the Old Testament.
That is why it is called a clean oblation.
We must remember that GOD is outside of time. Time is a measure of change for the things He has created. Since He never changes, He Himself is outside of time.
Consequently, everything from creation, and before, and for all eternity is now with GOD, including the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. It is a continuous, never ending sacrifice.
Something that never ends can not be repeated.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church # 1366
“The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: (Christ), our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper ‘on the night when he was betrayed,’ (he wanted) to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.
(Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24,27.)”
Scripture puts focus on Bread and Wine then?
Genesis 14.17-20, says....
After his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with them, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh, (that is the King’s Valley). And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out BREAD and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
maker of heaven and earth;
and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand!”
This is the first time in the Bible that anyone is addressed by the word coen, the Hebrew word for priest. As a “priest of God Most High,” Melchizedek “brought out bread and wine.”
There is a connection between his priesthood and those two offerings
Here is what scripture says....
Jesus said “Your ancestors ate manna in the wilderness and died...I am the living BREAD that came down from heaven...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man you will not have life within you.”
Jesus was born in “Bethlehem” which, in Hebrew, literally means “house of Bread”
A manger was not a place where animals stayed. It was a trough where food was put to feed the animals. Mary laid Jesus in a place where food was placed
At the last supper, which was a passover meal, Jesus said “take this and eat it, this is my body.”
“I Am The BREAD of Life”
John 6:48
Scripture says “For indeed Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep this feast.” (1 Cor 5:7-8) This relates to Exodus 12:1-42. The Passover meal saved from the angel of death who was striking the first born children in Egypt. At a traditional Passover supper, the Jews ate the sacrificial lamb.
Paul is saying that this feast should continue. They don’t think that he was “re-sacrificing” Christ when he kept this feast.
We see the Eucharistic formula throughout Scripture. At table, Jesus takes . . . blesses . . . breaks . . . and gives the bread. He also took a cup of wine; after giving thanks to God, He gave it to His disciples saying, “This is My blood . . . of the [new] covenant.” Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:15-20. This is the same formula Jesus uses during the first Eucharistic celebration after the resurrection when He encountered two disciples on the road to Emmaus (see Luke 24:13-35). When the Corinthians drift from the proper Eucharistic formula, Paul corrects them.(1 Corinthians 11:23-29)
“Give us this day our daily bread.”
Matthew 6:11
This is from the prayer that Jesus taught us, the “Our Father”.
It means in totality, bread as food for our bodies and spiritual bread as food for our souls.
Egad! What kind of theology is this! Whatever your views of Revelation may be, there can be no doubt that hell was created and is controlled by God.
BTW-Satan is not the ruler of hell. Since God is omnipresent (everywhere), God has to be in hell as well. Everyone in heaven or hell will bow down to His glory.
Sin is the cause of Hell existing and Hell is eternal separation from God. Thus if satan had not fallen Hell would not exist.(of course thats as they say "water under the bridge")
From the Catechism.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:619
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”484 Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage.”485 Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”486
Here is a few things from the Catechism
413 “GOD DID NOT MAKE DEATH, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil’s envy that death entered the world” (Wis 1:13; 2:24).
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”
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