Posted on 05/17/2007 10:08:04 AM PDT by Gamecock
Reading Francis Beckwith's interview with David Neff in Christianity Today, reminded me of how idyllic the Roman church can seem in the minds of those who embrace it (Click here: Q&A: Francis Beckwith | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction).
But then this news report appeared today which gives a much different picture of the supposed glories of Romanism (Click here: Pope to canonize first Brazilian saint - Yahoo! News).
All discussion of justification, the authority of Scripture, and reciting the Creed aside, the Pope is heading to Brazil to canonize Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao, a Franciscan monk who is credited with 5000 miraculous healings. Over 1 million people are expected to be in attendance. The healings supposedly come as a result of swallowing rice paper pills prepared by the monk over two hundred years ago. According to the AP news report . . .
"The Vatican has officially certified the medical cases of two Brazilian women as divinely inspired miracles that justify the sainthood of Galvao. Both of these women spoke of their faith with The Associated Press, claiming that their children would not be alive today were it not for the tiny rice-paper pills that Friar Galvao handed out two centuries ago.
Although the friar died in 1822, the tradition is carried on by Brazilian nuns who toil in the Sao Paulo monastery where Galvao is buried, preparing thousands of the Tic Tac-sized pills distributed free each day to people seeking cures for all manner of ailments. Each one is inscribed with a prayer in Latin: `After birth, the Virgin remained intact. Mother of God, intercede on our behalf.'
Sandra Grossi de Almeida, 37, is one such believer. She had a uterine malformation that should have made it impossible for her to carry a child for more than four months. But in 1999, after taking the pills, she gave birth to Enzo, now 7. `I have faith," Grossi said, pointing to her son. I believe in God, and the proof is right here.'
Nearly 10 years before that, Daniela Cristina da Silva, then 4 years old, entered a coma and suffered a heart attack after liver and kidney complications from hepatitis A. `The doctors told me to pray because only a miracle could save her,' Daniela's mother Jacyra said recently. `My sister sneaked into the intensive care unit and forced my daughter to swallow Friar Galvao's pills.'"
So, if you "return home" to Rome, you get the whole ball of wax, including the beatification of saints who give out Tic-Tac size rice-paper pills which supposedly heal. And Pope Benedict XVI will be there to bless it all.
By the way, confessional Protestants affirm the historical evangelical doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and the full authority of Scripture. And yes, we even recite the Creed every Lord's Day and we use a biblical-text based liturgy which is quite similar to that described by Justin Martyr in the second century.
Too bad Dr. Beckwith didn't consider a confessional Protestant church before embracing Romanism. Now he's stuck with Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao and his rice-paper healing pills.
WHAT!?! Is this what's coming down the pike these days? LOLOL. Now we're not even supposed to refer to the Roman Catholic Church? Using the term "Roman" is a pejorative on the order of "papist?"
Gimme a break. How old are you?
You guys are and always will be the Roman Catholic Church because the bishop of ROME lives in ROME.
I and those I've pinged are members of the one, holy, universal, apostolic catholic church. Come join us.
This is the funniest post I've read in weeks. Thanks for the laugh.
The use of insulting epithets like "Romanist" and "Popish" is no act of love. It's childish and a poor Christian witness.
Ping to 21 and the new nomenclature. Kind of like the new math.
Next you will tell me that Mormons want to be called something else.
Reminds me of my favorite line from Monty Python's Life of Brian...
"Lord, I am afflicted with a bald patch..."
Seeing how the only people to have used those terms on this thread are Catholics, perhaps you should to clean your own house first.....
Oh, you ever hear about bearing false witness? Very poor Christian witness indeed.
“The official name of the Church is “Catholic Church”, not “Roman Catholic Church”.”
Quick, someone tell the AT&T Yellow Pages. It seems they are intentionally insulting a whole bunch of churches in their church listings.
As an aside, from now on the official name for my church is “The One and Only Church” so please refer to my church as “The One and Only Church” anything else is insulting bordering on hate speech.
Still on the subject of miracles: why is it that no miracle was ever done by the hands of Luther, Calvin or the other Reformers? Miracles were done through Moses, the prophets, the apostles, and holy men throughout history. The apostles, you say, were special because they were founders of churches? Well wouldn’t someone who supposedly brought back the pure unadulterated gospel after it had been lost for 1,500 years be a pretty important fellow in God’s plan? Important enough to have a miracle or two worked through him? Miracles, whether done through Moses, or a prophet, or an apostle, or a great missionary saint or confessor of the faith are manifestations of divine favor -— of the fact that God is with that man. That no miracles were done through Luther or Calvin is interesting. As Erasmus said, Luther had not even a cure of a sick cow to show. I see supposed cures by protestant ministers all the time on TV. Why would God do miracles through Oral Roberts etc. and never once through the great Reformers? Could it be that the miracles I see on TV are fake? Well, we wouldn’t know, would we? Because umlike the “Romanists”, the Protestant miracles are never subjected to rigorous scrutiny by medical people and scientists. The Church does not accept as genuine any but a tiny fraction of all reported miracles, and that only after painstaking investigation. Moreover, no Catholic is required to believe in ANY particular miracle, except those recorded in Scripture. If Beckwith does not want to believe in these Brazilian miracles, he doesn’t have to. Nor does he have to believe in the appearances at Lourdes or Fatima. So he is not in any sense “stuck” with any such miracles. But he is also not stuck with having to repudiate the first 1,500 years of Christianity.
Sorry, I don’t strain my eyes reading jibberish. Please format your posts if you care to ping me...
Paragraphs, two spaces after periods, etc....
If he answers, it will be a miracle :>)
why is it that no miracle was ever done by the hands of Luther, Calvin or the other Reformers?
smpb, your posts are some of the jolliest I've read in months. Thank you for all this fine, convivial target practice.
The reason Luther, Calvin and the other Reformers did not perform miracles is BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOD.
Nor were they among the 11 apostles entrusted to spread the word of Jesus Christ which they had witnessed with their own eyes.
Apostolic miracles ended with the Apostles. And the reason for that is because CHRIST AND THE WRITTEN SCRIPTURE WITNESSING HIS LIFE, DEATH AND RESURRECTION IS SUPPOSED TO BE ENOUGH FOR US CHRISTIANS.
Those who seek "more proof" just might be given more of something that won't benefit them. Sadly, it will do just the opposite by distancing them from the truth of Christ risen.
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." -- Matthew 12:38-40"Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
The only "sign" we should need is the truth of the resurrection.
Look to Christ and not to rice-paper pills, empty relics, dead saints, wooden statues, vacant rituals and all other assorted manner of voodoo.
"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?" -- Gal. 3:1
The term “Roman Catholic”, has, as I said (maybe you didn’t read carefully, Dr.) come to be used widely by Catholics themselves. It is a harmless term. It does serve to distinguish “Roman Catholics” from others who consider themselves catholic, such as “Anglo-catholics”. many Catholic parishes call themselves “Roman Catholic”. It is not the best use of language, but it is accepted usage both within the Catholic Church and outside. However, the term that Mr. Gamecock (or is it Dr. Gamecock?) used in his post, and to which I objected, was Romanist, as you would know if you were paying attention. And everyone knows that Romanist, Romish, and such terms are pejoratives. They are like calling someone a “Jewboy”. Go ahead and keep doing it, if you want. Keep laughing too. It is not really hurtful to Catholics to hear such epithets as “Romanist”. Actually, we are somewhat amused by them. But it is embarrassing, since non-Christians may be listening in, and one does not like them to see Christians calling each other childish names. It is un-Christian. It doesn’t show forth Christian charity, and I suspect that it is not pleasing to Christ, who said that people would know his followers by their love for each other. I say that at the risk of sending you into even louder peals of laughter.
Hi, Irish. Ping to 31.
No, "Romanist" is not at all like "Jewboy."
"Romanist" is like "baby-splasher" or "Bible-Thumper." It is founded upon one's choices, unlike slurs which refer to a person's race or national heritage.
Unless you were born in Rome, in which case I guess you'd have a point. Were you born in Rome?
Let's not let any latent liberal tendencies we might have lurking in our deep consciousness infect our discourse, shall we?
3. It is lawful for all sorts of people to marry, who are able with judgment to give their consent. Yet it is the duty of Christians to marry only in the Lord. And therefore such as profess the true reformed religion should not marry with infidels, papists, or other idolaters: neither should such as are godly be unequally yoked, by marrying with such as are notoriously wicked in their life, or maintain damnable heresies. (Westminster Confession of Faith, 24:3)I like how the WCF lumps papists in with "other idolaters".
why is it that no miracle was ever done by the hands of Luther, Calvin or the other Reformers?
Reforming Christ's church was quite a miracle, wouldn't you say?
Thanks for the prompt, but it looks like you're the one not "paying attention." Would you kindly point me to the post where Gamecock used the word "Romanist"?
And if you don't find it, like I didn't find it before your own introduction of the word in your post #15, then you should apologize to Gamecock ASAP.
Better the whole ball of wax than a morphed, castrated, abridged, pale imitation of that ball.
Doc, does that mean that somone thinks we are married?
I hope Lady Gamecock doesn't read that! LOL!
Most definitely. And it was accomplished by the one who accomplishes all miracles...
"...the restoration of the church is the work of God, and no more depends on the hopes and opinions of men, than the resurrection of the dead, or any other miracle of that description. Here, therefore, we are not to wait for facility of action, either from the will of men, or the temper of the times, but must rush forward through the midst of despair. It is the will of our Master that his gospel be preached. Let us obey his command, and follow whithersoever he calls. What the success will be it is not ours to inquire. Our only duty is to wish for what is best, and beseech it of the Lord in prayer; to strive with all zeal, solicitude, and diligence, to bring about the desired result, and, at the same time, to submit with patience to whatever that result may be." -- John Calvin
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