Posted on 05/19/2007 3:06:54 PM PDT by NYer
“Islam is a syncretist cult.”
Which is why for centuries The Church held (some of us still do) that it was in fact a Christian heresy, like Arianism or Docetism. Like most heresies, it can be recognized by its fruit.
That was why Dante placed Mohammed in Hell as the great heresiarch/schismatic.
However, Mohammed was a tribal Arab and was probably from a pagan background, so I’m not sure you could call him a heretic (pace Dante). Don’t you actually have to be an orthodox something-or-another first in order to develop a heretical form of it?
That said, I believer there has always been some dispute over whether one should consider it a Jewish heresy or a Christian heresy (or maybe a pagan heresy, too, if the pagans had any doctrine). And Mohammed was actually pretty crafty in the design of his cult and much less “idealistic,” shall we say, than most heretics, who actually thought they had a principle they were defending. He did it for conquest, pure and simple. And the benefit of his tribe.
He was taught Orthodox Christianity by a Monk, his concubine Mariam was a Coptic and he traveled in the lands of both the Orthodox and the Copts.
That, Narses, is quite a piece. Thank-you. (It could have been written by a Greek; much of it sounds almost exactly the way things were explained to me by my grandfather 50 years ago)
My pleasure. Belloc was a truly great man. A gift from God.
Belloc is wonderful - actually, when I was young and reading my way through people of that generation, I didn’t like him very much. But it’s amazing how the years bring wisdom...
Yes, Mohammed definitely knew about Christianity, including its orthodox form. Personally, I think he’s a lot more like Joseph Smith (or vice versa), because he wanted to create a form of vaguely Christian-based religion that reflected his time and place. Just as Joseph Smith placed the Garden of Eden in Missouri, so did Mohammed relocate and redefine the holy places, persons and concepts of his religious environment to serve his Arab supremacy cult.
Your inclusion, “under Constantine” was quite odd, since Constantine was not pope.
Christianity is the religion which holds that Christ is God.
Thank you for posting the link ... I’ve downloaded the entire twenty-two pages and I’m on page ten, he crusades, currently. I’m struck by the presience of Belloc in warning of Islam’s violent re-arising to come, written in 1936! His description of the violent, non-constructive nature of Islam is indeed being displayed today. He also makes an excellent case for calling Islam a heresy of Catholicism. The aspects are strongly apparent in Mormonism, also.
I am of the sort who believes the ‘First Church Council’ was held in Jerusalem, when Peter was still alive.
Show me where in Scripture Jesus tells His disciples to write down everything He says, compile them into a book, make copies and distribute these to the masses.
I was wondering where he was, this seems like a thread he would just have to crash. After all, we’ve already established that he is not a Trinitarian (courtesy of his first post in the religion forum), we’ve established that he doesn’t know what language Jesus spoke or the culture of 1st Century Palestine, and we’ve established that facts make no progress when facing what his pastor told him, so this thread is right up his alley. Just ignore him. Johnny One Note will move on then.
The testament which foretold the Messiah’s coming is scripture. The scriptures are read at Mass for a reason, and not always from the New Testament I presume. When Jesus taught His disciples or the masses, He quoted from scriptures. We are admonished to ‘study to show yourself approved’. Scriptures have a very important place in conversion and maintenance of the believers. Scriptures do not eliminate that which is vital in Apostolic Authority, but the authority does not eliminate the value of scripture.
Which just demonstrates the fallacy of Sola Scriptura. You believe one thing, someone else interprets it a different way and over the course of 500 years, 33,000 different Christian denominations are born. That is why Jesus, recognizing Peter's God-inspired statement of faith, was chosen to head the Church.
Peter's God-inspired statement of faith.
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
"And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open."
Most Protestants believe that "church" refers to the mass of Christian believers throughout the world, loosely connected to each other by their faith in the Bible alone. But these verses demonstrate that the "Church" Jesus Christ founded is not an invisible body of loosely-connected believers, but a visible and hierarchical institution built upon the person of Peter, who was given supreme authority, an office for dynastic succession, and the gift of infallibility. This Church can only be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
In these verses, we see the following. First, Jesus builds His Church (“ecclesia”) upon the person of Peter. Jesus changes Simon's name to "Kepha," and says that on this "Kepha" He will build the Church. Kepha, in Aramaic (the language Jesus spoke), means a massive rock formation, and Jesus' use of Kepha to rename Peter signifies Peter's foundational leadership in the Church. (See also Mark 3:16 and John 1:42 where Jesus renames Simon "Cephas" which is a transliteration of the Aramaic "Kepha."). Only the Catholic Church recognizes and proves through an unbroken lineage of successors that her foundation is Peter.
Secondly, Jesus says the powers of death will never prevail against the Church. So even though Jesus appoints sinful human beings such as Peter to lead the Church, Jesus promises that hell will not prevail against her. Because the powers of hell refer to the supernatural, this must mean that the Church, although lead by sinful people, is divinely protected. Because she is so protected, the Church cannot lead the faithful into supernatural error. That is, she is unable to teach error on matters of faith and morals. This inability to teach error on faith and morals is called "infallibility" (it has nothing to do with the sinfulness of the Church's leaders, which deals with "impeccability"). If the Church were not infallible, the powers of death would indeed prevail over her sinful members. The consistent, 2,000 years of the Church’s teaching on faith and morals proves that Jesus has kept His promise.
Third, Jesus gives Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. While many Protestants think that the gift of the "keys" means that Jesus appointed Peter as the guardian of the gates of heaven, the "keys" actually refer to Peter's authority over the earthly Church (which Jesus often described as the "kingdom of heaven." Matthew 13:24-52; 25:1-2; Mark 4:26-32; Luke 9:27; 13:19-20, etc.) In the Old Davidic kingdom, the king had a prime minister on whose shoulder God placed the keys of the kingdom (Isaiah 22:22). Similarly, the new kingdom of Christ also has a prime minister (Peter and his successors) who is given the keys of the kingdom. The keys not only represent the authority the prime minister has to rule over God's people in the king's absence, but also the means of effecting dynastic succession to the prime minister's office (for example, in Isaiah 22:20-22, Eliakim replaces Shebna as prime minister in the Old Davidic kingdom). Only the Catholic Church claims and proves a succession of prime ministers (popes) all the way back to Peter, and this succession is facilitated by the passing of the keys of the kingdom.
Finally, Jesus declares to Peter that whatever he binds and looses on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. As in the Old Davidic kingdom, whenever Peter the prime minister opens, no one shall shut, and whenever he shuts, no one shall open. Jesus, therefore, gives Peter the authority to make decisions that will be ratified in eternity. In order for sinful Peter (and his successors through the passing on of the "keys") to make such decisions, he must be divinely protected. Once again, this evidences Jesus' gift of infallibility to the Church. Only the Catholic Church claims and has proven that her 2,000 year-old teachings on faith and morals, which have never changed, are infallibly proclaimed.
So am I. How does that have anything to do with Constantine?
Of course Jesus didn't tell his disciples to write every word he spoke...But it's clear that the written word of God is very important...'It is written' was referred to 63 times in the NT alone...The disciples, Jesus and listeners knew that the record of God was written and preserved...
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Like I said, without scripture, one religion is as good, or bad as another...And obviously John agrees...
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
You may know, because it is written...
Thankyou for your contribution to the conversation...
Always there to serve. And btw, you won’t find any Catholic who feels that the Scripture isn’t important. So as usual, you are setting up a false straw-man.
MAJOR COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH - 1st Council of Constantinople - 381 A.D. (2nd in a series)
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