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Christ the Light's towering $190 million project is the most expensive church in U.S. history
CONTRA COSTA TIMES ^ | 06/03/2007 | Rebecca Rosen Lum

Posted on 06/03/2007 6:16:10 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

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1 posted on 06/03/2007 6:16:14 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Religious competition? They have to compete with the new eye attracting Mosques that are being built around the US?


2 posted on 06/03/2007 6:28:58 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Time to get your election bumper sticker ready. "Impeach Hillary 09".)
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To: Alex Murphy

I have nothing against spending hundreds of millions of dollars on cathedrals. I just think they should be beautiful. This one will be interesting. I’m not so sure it will be beautiful. The design is too odd. The interior tries too hard to be majestic. It will probably come across simply as overwhelming and empty. And there’s going to be way too much use of cold, sterile-looking gray concrete. Apparently there will be almost no Christian art inside either.

http://www.christthelightcathedral.org/cathedral_tour_bv.htm


3 posted on 06/03/2007 6:29:34 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Alex Murphy
This is the problem...people are too concerned with the building that the church attends and not with the state that their heart is in.

2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

4 posted on 06/03/2007 6:36:15 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: WileyPink

You wrote:

“This is the problem...people are too concerned with the building that the church attends and not with the state that their heart is in.”

How do you know that is the case here? It seems to me that the thread is about the cathedral. Many more threads appear in this forum about the state of souls than about architecture.


5 posted on 06/03/2007 7:07:50 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
How do you know that is the case here?

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

It seems to me that the building in which one worships is made more important that the worship itself. These buildings seem to be their 'fruits' and not the salvation of their flock.

Many more threads appear in this forum about the state of souls than about architecture.

IMHO, there can never be too many threads about the state of one's soul.

In Christ, Wiley

6 posted on 06/03/2007 7:19:31 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: vladimir998; WileyPink; Frank Sheed; NYer; Salvation

Vladimir,

I looked at the virtual tour and would, on the surface, tend to agree that it may be stretching a bit much...but if they are able to pull it off, it could potentially be one of the great Cathedrals (the question is, are they going to be able to pull it off?). I like the use of the vertical and the architect’s ideal of using light as one of the design elements. As to the concrete and steel, as well as the lack of Christian art, you should consider the National Shrine in DC...it continues to be a work in progress. As are most great churches.

Wiley,

With due respect, you are dead wrong about the majesty in the worship space. A properly designed worship space (i.e., the church building) serves two main purposes: it draws people in and draws their minds toward God as they worship. Secondly, through the artwork in that worship space (the stained glass, the icons, the statuary, even the altar), parents are given a tremendous opportunity to educate their children and learned people are provided an equally powerful opportunity to educate the ignorant and illiterate.

I know of no church building that is designed to be ugly (even the buildings from the 60s-70s “Church Ugly” period were intended to be beautiful in the eyes of the designers). That goes not only for the Catholics and the Orthodox, but for the vast majority of Protestants, as well. Most buildings, including many fundamentalist church buildings that I’ve been in, have tried to have a vertical structure, they are designed so that the congregants’ attention is drawn toward the front, and they attempt to make use of the best craftsmanship in construction that they possibly can. Yes, some do not have steeples (for theological reasons), some do not utilize organs, some make use of flowers more than others, and so on. But I know of very few, if any, that are intentionally designed to be ugly.

If you think about it, it is the scriptural way, too, btw. Consider the beauty of the Temple. And then consider the beauty of the New Jerusalem. Why in the world would we be called to abandon that in these few moments that separate the two?


7 posted on 06/03/2007 7:24:43 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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To: Alex Murphy

If you build it, He will come?


8 posted on 06/03/2007 7:26:50 AM PDT by stboz
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To: markomalley
With due respect, you are dead wrong about the majesty in the worship space.

Why in the world would we be called to abandon that in these few moments that separate the two?

First, thank you for the spirit of your disagreement. (A refreshing change)

Secondly, I may have made my statement unclear. I'm certainly not saying that a place of worship shouldn't be filled with majesty to honor the Creator of the universe. I'm just afraid that in many cases that the creation (building) is put before the Creator (God). I just believe that the priority should first be the condition of the soul and second the condition of the building.

In Christ, Wiley

9 posted on 06/03/2007 7:34:24 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: Alex Murphy
Oh man, it looks like another horrendously ugly "spaceship church" to me (yes, I looked at the virtual tour). More money thrown down the rabbit hole for a postmodern monstronsity that looks absolutely nothing like a Catholic house a worship. This one looks like some kind of cheap simulacrum of futuristic convention hall. Someone send all this flakey modernist/postmodernist "architects" packing and bring us back the architectural principles and common sense that gave us the great Medieval and Renaissance cathedrals!
10 posted on 06/03/2007 7:37:13 AM PDT by marsh_of_mists
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To: WileyPink

You wrote:

“It seems to me that the building in which one worships is made more important that the worship itself.”

The article is about the building of a new cathedral. There’s going to be, therefore, lots of talk about the cathedral.

“These buildings seem to be their ‘fruits’ and not the salvation of their flock.”

What? The article is about the cathedral. Are you really going to say that means they have no other fruits? Are you serious?

“IMHO, there can never be too many threads about the state of one’s soul.”

So there can’t be threads about cathedrals? I guess we can’t talk about the Bible either? After all, that isn’t about the state of one’s soul now is it?


11 posted on 06/03/2007 8:02:02 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Alex Murphy

Wecome to North Mexico City.


12 posted on 06/03/2007 8:41:16 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: vladimir998
OK, Fine Vladimir, If you want to talk about the building, go ahead. I'll talk about Jesus. BTW, do you know him? I'll be glad to introduce you. We don't even need a building.

What? The article is about the cathedral. Are you really going to say that means they have no other fruits? Are you serious?

They may have other fruits, but this is the fruit they/you choose to talk about, not the One who is worshiped. Alex Murphy is good about "stirring the stuff" then watching the stink rise. He's done it this time too. You choose to talk about the treasures here on earth.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

I choose to lay up treasures in Heaven where the creator of your building is. Otherwise, I don't care to talk about your building anymore. If you choose to worship that, go ahead. I won't bother you anymore.

In Christ, Wiley

13 posted on 06/03/2007 8:51:40 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: WileyPink

You wrote:

“OK, Fine Vladimir, If you want to talk about the building, go ahead. I’ll talk about Jesus. BTW, do you know him?”

Yes, I know and love Jesus Christ. I know Him well enough that I do not assume Christians do Him a disservice by publishing articles about new cathedrals. How about you?

“I’ll be glad to introduce you. We don’t even need a building.”

But we do need a building. We are men and men live in buildings. Jesus worshipped in the Temple. I don’t see why we can’t worship in buildings as well.

“They may have other fruits, but this is the fruit they/you choose to talk about, not the One who is worshiped.”

The article is about the cathedral. If you think it is morally wrong to write such an article should you best take that up with the article’s author?

“Alex Murphy is good about “stirring the stuff” then watching the stink rise. He’s done it this time too.”

You ARE THE ONE DOING IT. Alex just posted an article. You’re the one whining about the fact that anyone is talking about it. Why are you blaming Alex?

“You choose to talk about the treasures here on earth.”

So you NEVER discuss anything other than Christ? You never watch a baseball game or read a book and discuss it? You never play a game with your kids or work in the yard? Come on! Get real.

“I choose to lay up treasures in Heaven where the creator of your building is. Otherwise, I don’t care to talk about your building anymore. If you choose to worship that, go ahead. I won’t bother you anymore.”

I don’t worship the building. Listen, just because you have no rational argument for your view doesn’t mean you should now accuse me of worshipping a building. Again, I think you might know Christ as you claim.


14 posted on 06/03/2007 9:03:43 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Religious competition? They have to compete with the new eye attracting Mosques that are being built around the US?

No contest!

No one can be expected to compete with Saudi money --- the source of all mosque construction in the U.S.

Just sayin' ...

15 posted on 06/03/2007 9:17:23 AM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: vladimir998
Hey Vlad, you are welcome to join the Sunday School Bible Study group each Saturday evening and Sunday to study His word and to worship him. On the Internet, btw, not a building.

You ARE THE ONE DOING IT. Alex just posted an article. You’re the one whining about the fact that anyone is talking about it. Why are you blaming Alex?

I stand by my statement of Mr Murphy. This exchange proves it. Just check his postings and check mine.

I evidently was wrong when I first said that your disagreement was in good spirit. Your true spirit is beginning to show towards my Born-Again worship of my Lord and Savior. I was wrong. I thought you had a rational discussion. You can respond if you wish, (so you can have the last word) but I'm through with this. Again, you are welcome to join the Bible Study caucus if you like.

In Christ, Wiley

16 posted on 06/03/2007 9:18:39 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: WileyPink; Religion Moderator
Alex Murphy is good about "stirring the stuff" then watching the stink rise. He's done it this time too.

Please ping me the next time you talk about me.

17 posted on 06/03/2007 11:18:24 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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To: WileyPink

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.


18 posted on 06/03/2007 11:22:34 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Alex Murphy; Religion Moderator
Please ping me the next time you talk about me.

Very well Alex. I will take that into consideration. Would you also like to join the Sunday School Bible Study? I'll be glad to add you to the list.

BTW, you didn't really ping the Religion Moderator about such a trivial matter as this did you? I'll just ping him/her back just to make sure

With due respect,

19 posted on 06/03/2007 11:40:10 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: Religion Moderator; Alex Murphy
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

Very well. It's nice to know that I can post pretty much anything I want and not have to take the credit/blame for its content.

Does this also mean that I can post "Mein Kampf" and not be labeled a Nazi and an anti-Semite? I was making reference to Alex Murphy's posts in the past. I have seen negative and inflammatory post toward Baptist and Protestants by Alex Murphy in the past. It was NOT a personal attack on him but on his post.

But don't worry, I will refrain from having ANY contact with Alex Murphy or his posts since he obviously can't defend them himself.

With respect to the RM,

20 posted on 06/03/2007 11:49:33 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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