Skip to comments.Protestants and the rosary
Posted on 06/05/2007 10:53:58 AM PDT by Frank Sheed
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
The context is telling you that when you pray, pray in earnest, not just to appear holy, to hear yourself pray.
“After this manner therefore pray ye:”
After you said your prayer, then pray the following, “Our Father...”
Matthew 6:5-6:8 is referring to your own prayers, not the one God gave us. He specifically told us to say that one.
Not at all actually!
Objections to the Rosary arise from the experiences of the Reformation. Those who abandoned devotions to Mary and the Saints than ransacked Scripture for reasons to justify their choice. Recitation of the rosary is no more “babbling” than Pentacostals speaking in tonques. Likewise, the Geneva service is, like that of a Zwingli, a Christian service such as can be conducted only by laymen. Generally speaking, that would be song, prayers, Scripture, and preaching. Abandonment of the priesthood also means that the Lord’s Supper is a rare event, although “the breaking of the bread” seems not have been that rare at all. Luther saw this, which is why his service was more like a Low Mass in German. Even Calvin would have celebrated the Eucharist weekly, but went along with his colleagues since he wanted to point up the contention that the Priesthood was a kind of spiritual tyranny.
Sadly, you don’t even follow what Jesus IN THE BIBLE taught us to do.......Holy Communion comes to mind...I’m sure that is in your Bible...right?
Some time ago Christianity Today had an excellent article on Evangelicals and Mary. I can see where the saying of the Hail Mary would be a problem for Protestants. But the concept of the Rosary to meditate on the Life of Christ while saying set prayers could find valid application in Protestantism.
Why not instead of reciting a Hail Mary recite one of the Psalms while meditating on Jesus. An example would be to recite psalm 22 while meditating on Christ’s death on the cross. Prayer is part of Christian discipline. With all the distractions we have isn’t it good to have a means of turning all our attention to the Lord? This is what the Rosary does for some.
You’re saying that Catholics hold the Blessed Mother as a god but are so bad at worshipping her they won’t admit it—even to themselves?
Testy testy! I was just trying to help!
Actually, I observe the Lord’s Supper as instituted by Him as a memorial in remembrance of the atoning sacrifice He was to undertake.
Originally the Rosary was a replacement for reciting the 150 Psalms of David, for those who didn't have a Psalter or couldn't read. So by reciting Psalms as you count off the beads, you're simply returning to the original idea!
Of course, an essential part of the Rosary is meditating on one of the Mysteries, which changes with every ten beads.
Actually, I observe the Lords Supper as instituted by Him as a memorial in remembrance of the atoning sacrifice He was to undertake.
108 posted on 06/05/2007 6:18:10 PM MDT by pjr12345
I'm with you, every year, I celebrate Passover as Yah'shua asked me to.b'shem Yah'shua
Never. Please don't do that. I don't consider myself worthy.
"Do you pray for others yourself?"
Yes, I pray to God for us all.
. . . the Rosary does help, it's very calming.
That is because that was the purpose of the prayer in scripture. The Apostles said Lord HOW should we pray (not WHAT should we pray)
Jesus responded when you pray, pray LIKE this ( not PRAY THIS)
It was given to us as a pattern for prayer.
Also when He gave us this pattern He revealed the fatherhood of God to the elect. Something that was not a part of Jewish thought but is clearly taught in the NT
Admiral BoyVice-Admiral Babe, says Gloriana, I cry your pardon. The heat of these present times ripens childhood to age more quickly than I can follow."'
I have attended studies ON it but it is not a common practice especially in the evangelical churches
I’ve got the book on order from the library.
I think it’s a wonderful line ... “I’ve got the end-of-school-year dog-wearies. Get out of here so I can drink, already!”
Nobody can make you say the Rosary, and even if they try to convince you, you don't have to read what they write.
(I was saying the Rosary for years before I became a Catholic, but then again the writer excepts Piskies . . . and we were so 'high' our noses bled)
Probably because we see it as a part of scripture that is intended to teach us, not be quoted verbatim
I am saying that Roman Catholicism exalts Mary to a status that is very much godlike. It calls on them to pray TO her. Through its teachings are pre-written prayers, they petition her for things such as her protection and provision. And, in popular practice and sometimes official doctrine she is given titles of God such as Mediator. Advocate. Redeemer. (all with the appendage of “co” included of course, but the point stands). NOWHERE does Scripture tell us to treat Mary in the way that the Catholic church treats her. So, in answer to your question, bad at worshipping her? No. Refusing to admit. Yes.
I didn’t mean to imply that you did live on wine. I don’t eat very much in the form of solids, so I do live on beer, however.
Cheerios and Chablis is an acquired taste, but not bad.
I'm sorry, friend, but that claim is unbelievable.
Sandy, vain and vanity are not the same words, they have different meanings, vain means empty , useless as in "he tried in vain to do something".
In the case of vain repetitions the greek is translated
1) to stammer 2) to repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered; others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.
The pagans often used mantras much like people use in yoga or other hindi practice.
Things like the rosary qualify as vain repetition. Catholics admit they are not really consecrating on the prayers, but are meditating on the "mysteries." The words are simply repetitive from memory if that is true.
Did your family worship and pray together? Did your family teach you scripture and talk about God to you?
Well it is true.
I think it may be used in some of the non Catholic liturgical churches, but not in Protestant churches.
We prefer to approach the throne of God with our words :)
. . every time she shouted, "FIRE!"
They only answered, "Little liar."
And therefore, when her Aunt returned,
Matilda, and the house, were burned.
- "Matilda, Who Told Lies and Was Burned to Death."
Are you a protestant . Where do you go to services?
** not really consecrating**
I don’t think any of us can consecrate anything. That is the job of the priest.
I think you probably mean concentrating.
And, no, the prayer of the Rosary is not in vain. You have no idea of the benefits of saying the Rosary. For instance, have you ever heard the story about keeping the Muslims away by saying the Rosary? I will post the links in the next post to you.
Please do not try to put words into the mouths of Catholics and assume what we believe according to Catholic tradition.
Plus there are a gazillion “Scripture Rosary” pamphlets that have a different Scripture verse after each Hail Mary! Or, for those not interested in the Hail Mary, why not say only ONE and then pray completely to God using the Divine Mercy Chaplet shown here:
The ideal is not the constant repetition of a mantra. For those who say the Rosary prayerfully (or the Divine Mercy), it is to enter into a Meditation on scenes from the Life of Christ or to lift our minds to God. It is actually a very Christological devotion and the addition of the Luminous Mysteries by John Paul II made it even more so!
You're merely speculating with no data, and in point of fact you're wrong. (I hope you really mean "concentrating" and not "consecrating".)
If you say the Rosary in the Bavarian manner (as I was taught to do years ago), the Mystery goes into the pause in the Hail Mary, and you say it aloud so that it changes the meaning and is part of the recitation. So the Hail Mary changes with every decade.
And the Canon of Scripture is listed on page? Darn, I can't seem to find it. Could you help?
They have their own vain repetitions they do with their prayer beads.
Your comment does not respond to the issue. You said it has "value" in response to my misspelled comment on the fact that Catholics say that they are meditating on the mysteries so that would be where their focus was, not on the "prayer" itself. How beneficial you see it as does not respond to that issue
Please do not try to put words into the mouths of Catholics and assume what we believe according to Catholic tradition.
When you say the rosary are your thoughts directed to Christ and the mysteries of His life and death or are they on Mary as you mouth the words.
Who is the center of your meditation Christ or Mary?
(i) A social religion
We don't gather together to get everything handed to us by people who claim that God put them in charge for our protection. It is the journey together that gives meaning & as we work & struggle things out together in love, the message to love one another takes on the greatest meaning. It's not difficult to love those who agree with you about everything. Maintaining love when there is disagreement is more difficult, but not after bringing in our love for God first & above everyone & everything else.
Those of us in the YIPOS camp may have some or most everything "wrong", but none of us think that we're done yet or that we'll be done trying to figure it all out before we draw our last breath. Does God want us to know everything correctly or does He want us to remain engaged, engaged with each other with Him at the center?
Yes, beer and pretzels is a good, solid meal.
Since when are those not Protestant churches?
Who did those miracles God or Mary? Did God NEED Mary to do them? Whos is getting the glory?
I meditate on both.
BTW, did you read any of the links and find out how the Rosary saved Europe from being invaded by the Moslems?
The United Church of Christ used the Lord’s Prayer, too ... at least when we were attending in the 70’s.
That is what Catholics HERE have told me when we say they are praying to and worshiping Mary .So are you worshiping and meditating on Christ or Mary?
But wine has the beneficial antioxidants. You want to live forever, don’t you?
He left us a Church that He Himself configured, not us:
(iii) The function of Peter
Our Lord established His kingdom with officials through whom He could dispense His gifts of truth by way of doctrine, and of life by sacrament. The kingdom was to be in the souls of men since apart from that it could have borne no fruit; but it was not to be only in the souls of men. We must complete such phrases of Our Lord as “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” and such phrases as “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a city upon a hill.” But for the protection of the truth and the preservation of the integrity of the channels of life, Our Lord made still further provision by choosing one of the Apostles and giving him special functions. When He first called the Apostles, He said to Simon, the brother of Andrew, “Thou shalt be called Peter”—a word which means “rock.” When the end of His time upon earth was drawing near, He made clear the reason for the change of names, “Blessed art thou Simon son of Jonah; it is not flesh and blood, it is my Father in heaven that has revealed this to thee. And I tell thee this in my turn, that thou art Peter and it is upon this rock that I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shalt be loosed in heaven” (Mt 16:18-19).
At the Last Supper, when the dispute arose among the Apostles as to which would have first place in His kingdom, Our Lord settled it with the words; “Simon, Simon, Satan has claimed power over you all, so He can sift you like wheat: but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith may not fail; when after a while, thou has come back to me, it is for thee to be the support of thy brethern” (Lk 22:31-32).
After His Resurrection, Our Lord appears among the Apostles and three times asks Peter if he loves Him. As Peter answers each question with an affirmation of his love, Our Lord utters the three phrases: “Feed My lambs,” “Feed My lambs,” “Feed My Sheep” (Jn 21:16-17). Taking any one of these episodes, we must see that the function entrusted to Peter was very great; taking them all together, we see it is enormous. In the first, he is to be the rock upon whom the Church (which Our Lord here calls also the kingdom of heaven) is to be founded. He is to have supremacy in the kingdom, for Our Lord promised him the “keys” which are a symbol of supremacy; and he is to have a final power of regulation and discipline, for his permissions and prohibitions are to be ratified in heaven. At the Last Supper, something is made explicit which before was certainly present but implicitly. He is to safeguard the unity of the brethern, whom otherwise Satan would scatter like chaff, because by the prayer of God his own faith would not fail, would be unfailable—which brings us to the very word infallibility. The third is the richest of all. Peter is shepherd the whole flock, the little ones and the great. He is to feed them. With what food? The spirit of man needs three kinds of food and Our Lord came to provide them. “Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” So truth is food. “My meat is to do the Will of Him that sent Me.” So law is food. ‘The food I shall give is My flesh for the life of the world.” So sacrament is food. Peter must feed the flock with truth and law and sacrament.
Notice most particularly how in all this Our Lord, about to leave the earth, is conferring upon Peter His own special titles. Christ is the foundation (1 Cor 3:11), and He makes Peter the foundation. Christ is the key-bearer—”He bears the key of David so that none may shut when He opens, none open when He shuts” (Rev 3:7)—and He makes Peter the key-bearer. It is to Christ that the power belongs to hold these whom God has given Him, but He gives to Peter the charge of being a support to the brethern. Our Lord had said, “I am the good shepherd”—and He makes Peter to be the shepherd. All this is in line with what we have already seen about the Church as a whole. Our Lord was truthgiver and lifegiver, and the Church is to be truthgiver and lifegiver: that is to say, He will continue to give truth and life through the Church. Our Lord is rock and key-bearer and shepherd: He will continue all that each title implies through Peter. Church or Peter, it is all the same. Neither matters save as an instrument through which Christ has chosen to work.
This then was the provision Our Lord made for the souls of men that they might come to Him, be united with Him and receive His gifts till the end of time. His kingdom would grow as it moved outward and onward toward its two limiting points—all the nations of the earth and the end of time—and there would be some increase of complexity in its structure to meet new needs created by its growth. But all would be within the living framework He established upon earth—one kingdom with a smaller body of officials serving the great body of plain citizens, and among the officials one who is head over the rest and the servant of all. So the kingdom was, when the Holy Spirit descended upon it at Pentecost. So it still is. So till the end of the world it will be.
Theology and Sanity, Frank J. Sheed, ISBN 0-89870-470-7, Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 1993, Part III. Creation. 20. The Kingdom, (iii) The function of Peter, pp. 286-289.
Here are the Mysteries:
The Finding in the Temple
The Baptism of Christ
The Miracle at Cana in Galilee
The Coming of the Kingdom
The Institution of the Eucharist
The Agony in the Garden
The Scourging at the Pillar
The Crowning With Thorns
The Via Dolorosa
The Descent of the Holy Spirit
The Assumption of Mary
The Coronation of Mary
If somebody absolutely freaks out about the last two (although they prefigure the blessed soul's reward in Heaven), they can just think about the other 18.
Have you ever heard "in Unity there is strength?" Satan is good at doing that--sowing disunity. In fact St. John recounts in his Gospel that Christ told Peter that the Apostles would be "sifted like wheat" but that He (Jesus) had prayed to the Father for him (Peter) to keep his brothers united. Sounds like a serious passage to me.
Now if you are a Catholic and were attending an ecumenical service, perhaps it was prayed in an attempt at some false unity,
The fact is we do not use it .I have never seen or heard it used in 30 years.
Heard of a church today that I had never heard of before -- the Church of Unity. Not sure what it is, going to try to find out because a college friend of my daughter is a member.
. . . . at least she is now, until my daughter with her Excess of Convert Zeal gets after her . . .
. . . sometimes she scares me, she really does . . . she even makes Monsignor lift his eyebrows. She's back in town for the summer, working at our vet's office and singing in the choir on Sundays.
How remarkable your mind must be !
James puts it this way
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.
Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.
I say it pretty much every day, but not over & over again. I've no poetry in my heart, so most of my prayers are far from elegant.