Posted on 06/27/2007 2:51:49 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
When Pope Benedict XVI attacked Catholic politicians in Mexico who supported abortion rights last month, Rudy Giuliani was asked for his opinion. The presidential candidate replied in the language of the church: "Issues like that are for me and my confessor. I'm a Catholic...
Married three times, Giuliani simply isn't the Catholic candidate he claims to be. He can't have a confessor. He can't receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist, or marriage.
While bishops disagree about whether or not a Catholic politician who supports abortion rights can receive the sacraments, there is no disagreement about the consequences of divorcing and remarrying outside the church, as Giuliani did a few years ago.
Young Rudy went through 16 years of Catholic education, flirted with the priesthood, and trekked to East New York to teach catechism lessons. The 803-page catechism—reissued in 1994 under the supervision of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who has since become pope—lays out the ways in which Giuliani's personal decisions have estranged him from the church...
(Excerpt) Read more at villagevoice.com ...
Really.
Devastating.
Eye-poppingly good job on the part of the Village Voice.
Bookmarked
ping
Good article. The Voice actually can do some good investigative reporting from time to time.
I think Giuliani has spent much of his life trying to play both ends against the middle - and has succeeded, for the most part. But his run of luck may be over. I hope.
I really don’t care whether Giuliani is a good Catholic or not. I care what kind of President he will make.
And if the Village Voice wants to investigate hypocrisy among Catholic politicians, when are they going to zero in on the Kennedys, Pelosi, Kerry, etc.? It’s a big field.
New stuff in this 7 pager.
“I really don’t care whether Giuliani is a good Catholic or not. I care what kind of President he will make.”
I shall always vote for a candidate who puts the welfare of my country ahead of everything else even if he/she is a drunk or womanizer, as long as he/she is an effective leader. Besides, I have had enough of presidential prayer breakfasts.
I’m with you. GWB is a nice guy who’s born again, is faithful to his wife and wants to be pals with everybody. Where did that get us? I want a mean SOB who’ll kick ass and take names in the White House on behalf of the American people. I think Giuliani is that guy and that’s what I like about him.
Yes, he will be mean and take names. My fear though is that he will devote his substantial autocratic skills to attacking social conservatives like myself. Also, committed Christians like myself do find it offensive that he claims to be a Christian and then in the next breath thinks that he can treat his family like a complete jerk and support the killing of innocent life.
If you would bother to read the article, you'd see that it has less to do with his Catholicism than with his character. His favorite priest, for example, is a defrocked child molester whom he put on his company payroll.
Except that Rudy grew up before Vatican II. Whatever he learned from the old Baltimore Catechism, he has problemly heard differently from his clerical advisors. not many of whom subscribe to the teachings of the new Catechism.
You can be an atheist be be pro-life, like Nat Henthoff. I am sure that if Rudy is nominated, the Republican Party will no longer be the pro-life party even to the extent that it is.
Exactly! He's not running to be Chief Theocrat of the United States, so I don't care if he's devout or not.
I've known plenty of "good (fill-in-the-blank-with-your-favorite-religion)s" who are execrable humans.
The article is not about whether or not he is devout. It’s about whether or not he is PRINCIPLED in any sense. The answer is “No, he’s not.”
So I gather Giuliani is tied in with some priest who’s accused of molesting kids. You’re right, I haven’t bothered to read the article but on its face that fact puts him in the company of many Catholic cardinal archbishops still in good standing with Rome. I’m not going to judge that one way or another until I know more about it, and from a source somewhat less biased than the Voice. If Rudy truly consorts with baby rapers, beats all his wives and secretly worships the head of Mohammed, I’m sure CBS and the NY Times will inform us all at some point. Meanwhile, my point about the Kennedys et al., I believe, stands.
Don't let any facts get in the way of your ill-informed biases.
How am I biased? Against the Voice, or what?
Really? Then obviously, Rudy's your man. Religious hypocrite, and execrable to boot.
The Great RJ: "It seems strange that no one ever questions the status in the Church of Ted Kennedy or John Kerry...."
I would say "You're new here, aren't you?" except I see you've been in FR since 2000. So I'll have to say "You don't hang around the Religion forum much, do ya?"
The "questioning" of the "status in he Church" of Ted Kennedy and John Kerry could be fairly described as continuous and vehement. Moreover, half a dozen bishops went so far as to saying in public that they would turn Kerry away from Holy Communion under Canon 915.
“Married three times, Giuliani ... can’t have a confessor. He can’t receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist, or marriage. “
Kirkwood: "Good gravy! You don’t know what you’re talking about. This is all UNTRUE.
Actually, it's true.
Cases considered in this canon 915 include:...3] grave manifest sin, obstinately maintained...
Divorced and remarried Catholics also fall under canon 915. As some canonists point out, citing Pope John Paul II, regarding canon 915: "In the case of the above 3], attention must be paid to the clear discipline of the church in cases of Catholics who: a) prefer to contract a merely civil marriage and who reject or at least defer the religious marriage; b) divorced persons who have remarried.
In the first case, the pastors of the Church will, regrettably, not be able to admit them to the sacraments; and in the second case, the Church reaffirms its practice of not admitting them to Eucharistic communion from the fact that their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and the Church, which is signified and effected by the Eucharist" (JPII, Ap.Exhort. FC nos. 82, 84,; AAS nos. 74, l83, l85; TPS n. 27 [1982] § 71, 73).
The revised l997 CCC also addressed divorced and remarried Catholics, saying they may receive the Eucharist if, 'they have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence' ('frater soror' or as brother and sister) (CCC ¶ 1650).
This is from A Primer on Canon 915
I'd keep that Canon 915 in mind. You'e going to hear more about it. It could well apply to the estimated 500 Catholic pro abortion politicians in the U.S., and to many others.
NY GOP Chick: "I've known plenty of "good (fill-in-the-blank-with-your-favorite-religion)s" who are execrable humans."
Really? Then obviously, Rudy's your man. Religious hypocrite, and execrable to boot.
Really? Throughout my entire life, I never knew that I support hypocrites (religious or otherwise) and execrable people for political office! Thank you SO much for telling me that!
As for his religious beliefs and practices, that's his personal business -- not mine. And, frankly, I'd rather not live under someone else's religious beliefs.
Sorry, then. My mistake. I was under the impression that you supported Giuliani.
I personally don't consider religious affiliation per se to be relevant to political office. I take it we agree on that. This article is not about Giuliani's affiliation (which neither you nor I nor the Village Voice cares much about) as much as about his honesty, integrity, and ability to serve the public.
As to that, I think Giuliani could make a remarkably good big city crime-stopper; provided, of course, that he had the good sense to re-hire Bill Bratton.
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