Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
————————————————-
(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
First in a series.....
The intent of this thread is not to determine if a Mormon should be president, or if you want one as a next door neighbor, but are they Christian?
Please try to focus on that thought......
Press on! It will be clear to any rational human that Mormon doctrine is contrary to the Bible and no one can truly be a Mormon and truly be a Christian. That being said, not all who participate in “Christian churches” are not all truly Christians and it’s likely that not all who participate in Mormon churches are truly Mormons.
False doctrine must be exposed to the light of Truth, which can only be found in the revealed, written Word of God - that which has been recognized as the Bible for nearly 2,000 years.
What difference would it make whether or not a Mormon is a Christian if, as President, one agrees with your politics?
Would you prefer a Mormon who agrees with you to a Christian who disagrees with you, politically speaking, in the White House? How about a Mormon who abides by his Church's teachings, believes in Christ, etc. vs. a Christian who you have no evidence does the same?
That is not the point of this thread.
If you want to have such a discussion, please start your own thread, ping me, and I will reply.
That’s ok—I think I just got my answer. Thanks.
Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults lays out areas in which he strongly contends that Mormonism and Christianity diverge. One chapter in that examination is entitled The Truth about the god of the Mormons, in which Martin cites written texts from the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and succeeding prophets.
Trinitarianism is the dividing line between historic Christianity and pretend Christianity.
Gamecock, from a reformed perspective, isn’t the only distinction-with-a-differnce whether or not one is elect? And without an “elect-o-meter” none of us has a clue as to whether a Mormon or non-Mormon is one.
Now, we can debate doctrine, of course, and Mormon doctrine as I understand it is not in accord with scripture, so I am dismissive of it.
But for all I know there could be more elect in the LDS church than in the PCUSA.
Lay off the peyote, Joe.
You make it sound as though the president should have to be a Christian.
Actually, I think he makes it sound like that's not the point of this thread.
OK
Bingo!
Here's a nifty little cartoon Greg found a few days ago.
Before deciding whether we are Christians, you really should define Christian. Can you list those beliefs, practices, and characteristics that distinguish those who are Christians from those who are not?
The problem of definition is more difficult than it might appear at first. Almost any definition that would exclude Mormons would also exclude other groups that have historically been considered Christian.
You might start with the Bible. The word Christian appears in three places in the Bible: Acts 11:26; Acts 26:28; and 1 Peter 4:16. How does the Bible define the word?
Is that really what Mormons believe?
A Christian accepts that the god of the Jews is God, that he had a son named Jesus Christ, who was crucified, that Mary was an eternal virgin and was, along with Jesus, the only person on Earth to have never sinned. Those are the basic beliefs.
Pretty much. Colorcountry, our resident cute, lovable heretic can confirm this.
If I believe that Mary was a sinner, it does not change the teaching that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth.
The Virgin Birth was due to God’s power, it is independent of Mary’s sinful nature, exhibited where she said “I rejoice in God my Savior.”
Some of the claims of these sites are sensationalized, but they get the basic beliefs right.
Having been both a Mormon and then a Christian, I can tell you that there are vast differences. The most glaring are:
1) The personification of God and the belief that men may progress to become gods.
2) Exaltation is earned through performing specific ordinances and entering into covenants.
3) There is a “Prophet” on earth who is a spokesman for God in all things both spiritual and temporal. (Which makes the Prophet completely different than the Pope)
Mormonism is:
A re-wrap of Hinduism and is a presursor to Scientology and Raelianism. Joesph Smith might have had an experience with one or more unclean spirits, who would have then been able to guide him in his writing projects.
Since the genuine person and story of Jesus Christ is of great value, a counterfeit version would have been of some value, just as a counterfeiter can use fake money to but items of genuine value.
To the people in the LDS church, I beg of you to investigate for yourselves the true revelations of Jesus Christ to human beings. If you were to read about the appearances of Jesus Christ to the apostle Paul, you would realize that Jesus gave great apostolic authority to Paul. The New Testament has no lack of true appearances of the resurrected Jesus Christ to many people whose lives were forever changed.
John 4:24
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
“presursor”
oops
precursor
Actually, those are beliefs of all rites of the Catholic Church, and, my assumption is, they are also the beliefs of all Orthodox Churches.
One day, all the rebels against the true church will rejoin her. This must come to pass before the return of Christ, as it will be this unified Christian church that is to be persecuted in the last days.
Why do you post this garbage?! This is NOT what members of the LDS Church believe. Again and again you post stuff like this and, by so doing, demonstrate that you are a liar. For what purpose?
The cartoon is absolutely false and the LDS Church has not banned it.
Are these film clips satire? Some kind of joke? I watched some of them and I laughed out loud.
More garbage from garbage master Enosh. The more you post this stuff, the lower your credibility goes.
No.
"... but they get the basic beliefs right"
Is Colorcountry also a liar?
Everyone in those clips are liars, right?
BTW GF, "liar" is old news, but "garbage master" may be new material.
Yes. Colorcountry has made a regular habit of misrepresenting and lying about LDS beliefs and other things related to the church.
Spiff,
Why would I lie? Why would the people who produce all the evidence against the Church lie?
For generations, my family has been attending the same clinic and seeing the same doctor. He is usually a really nice guy. In his office, he has his medical school certificate hanging on his wall. It says he is a doctor.
Over the last few years, I have had my doubts though. Most of his medical advice doesn’t work and seems very non-medical in nature. So, I decided to check out his background. With just a little research, I determined that he never attended medical school at all. In fact, he never graduated from college. The state board has never issued him a license.
When I found this out, I called him. He had his staff escort me from his clinic. I called all my family and told them what I had found. When I did, my parents hung up the phone and refused to discuss it. Later, my mother told me I was lying and they needed to rely on the doctor’s advice because he has been treating my father’s heart condition for years. My siblings did the same. My sister’s son is interning with the doctor and the doctor has assured him that he is accredited.
When I offered to fax them the information and records I had discovered, they all refused. One sibling asked me how I even knew the educational records I examined hadn’t been altered by the good doctor’s known adversaries.
So I stopped going to the doctor, but my parents, siblings, aunts and uncles all continue to go and won’t hear any criticism of their doctor or his background. So when we get together, discussion of the doctor is taboo, but I roll my eyes every time I have to listen to stories about their frequent trips to the doctor and his sage advice and I see how ill they all appear. I put up with being called a liar because I love them. Someday I hope they will visit a real doctor who will treat their ills.
“With just a little research, I determined that he never attended medical school at all. In fact, he never graduated from college. The state board has never issued him a license.”
I’d be interested in knowing what medical schools you researched, what state board has say over this “doctor”, and what license was granted. I rather suspect your judgment is a personal one rather than based on irrefutable authority or “documentation”. In fact, there is no medical school, college or licensing board for the doctor you seem to reference, is there?
The Board of Doctors. These are recognized authorities on what it takes to provide proper medical care.
Of course there are other boards who may approve of the care of the family “doctor.” They fall under the category of chiropractors, faith healers, witches etc. As long as the Doctor is honest about his professional background, I have no problem with him calling himself a practioner, healer or quack. He just has no authority to call himself a Doctor, either by peer review, or by his educational or legal history. Telling others about him does NOT make me a liar anyway does it?
What about the outer space thing and the planet Koa?
I never accused you of lying. I just question whether there is one authentic “board of doctors” which can certify the qualifications of all practitioners. You may personally give credence to one or another board but that doesn’t make it the final authority applicable to all.
Pearl of Great Price is one of the official books of LDS Scriptures. It tells of the planet Kolob.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob
the LDS scripture described a vision of Abraham, in which Abraham:
“saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.” (Book of Abraham 3:2-3.)
In an explanation of an Egyptian hypocephalus that was part of the Book of Abraham scrolls, Joseph Smith interpreted one set of hieroglyphics as representing:
“Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.” (Book of Abraham, Facsimile 2, Figure #1 explanation.)
But then again I am probably lying. You should look at lds.org. LOL
Why did generations of your family continue to visit a doctor who’s advice doesn’t work and seems very non-medical in nature?
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
by Jill Martin Rische
On Sunday, February 25, 2007, Meet the Press had an interesting roundtable discussion on Mormonism that reflected the abundance of their journalistic ignorance. What I found particularly amusing (choosing humor in lieu of intense frustration) was their patronizing comment that Christians know very little about Mormonism. They proceeded to cite a recent poll that showed 45% of Evangelicals view Mormonism negatively (although the source of the poll was fuzzy). This seemed a bit illogical, since Christians must know something for the negative percentage to be so high. No mention was made of the unique Mormon beliefs that might cause millions of rational souls to view them with a healthy dose of skepticism. After pondering the wisdom of the media elite (or lack thereof), I decided to research a short list of Mormon facts to help guide them through the dense jungle of Mormon Doctrine:
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
1. Mormons can become gods and goddesses.
2. Goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
3. Mormon women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
4. Mormon men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy.
5. Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.
6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.
7. God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, who is the half brother of Lucifer.
8. All Christian churches are an abomination.
9. Mormons need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
And so you see, 45% of Christians know what thousands of the media elite do not: Mormonism is not Christian.
—————————————————————-
Sources:
[1] Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; J of D 8:115; Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:20
[2] Doctrine and Covenants 84:33-9; Goddesses are always subject to a god. Women are denied the Priesthood (meaning they are denied authority—not the same as Catholic priesthood). “In the LDS universe, theologically described as the real eternal universe, each man who achieves the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is worth many times more than each woman, even the women who qualify at that highest Celestial level, because each man who achieves Godhood-level may have numerous God-wives, but each God-wife may have only one husband. This can only mean that each “heavenly father” is worth many times more than each “heavenly mother.” And, even if the ratio were strictly one to one, the male God, not the female God, holds the priesthood authority and is the only one of the God parents to whom his earth-mortality children are allowed to pray. So Mormon women can never, NEVER achieve equality with men, no matter how outstanding or righteous the women are. That’s just the way it’s set up.” MORMON WOMEN, PROZAC® and THERAPY By Kent Ponder, Ph.D. e-mail address: kponder@swcp.com
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/prozac.htm.
[3] LDS Apostle Orson Pratt wrote, “Each father and mother will be in the condition to multiply forever and ever” (The Seer, 37).
[4] Doctrine and Covenants 132; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269; Men can still be sealed for eternity (not time) to women other than their wives; “The practice of polygamy has been discontinued, but the doctrine of polygamy has never been revoked. D&C 132 is still part of the LDS canon. And some current church practices are still based on polygamous principles.” See pro-Mormon site http://mormonopenforum.blogsome.com/2005/08/02/eternal-polygamy/ (accessed February 25, 2007).
[5] Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:2-4, 9; J of D, 26:214.
[6] Book of Mormon: Alma 3:6-19; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Enos 1:20; J of D, 7: 290-291.
[7] Journal of Discourses 8: 116; J of D 8: 211; J of D 8: 115; Mormon Doctrine p.546-547.
[8] Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:19. Smith claimed God sent him to “restore” true Christianity.
[9] Celestial Kingdom is the highest of 3 levels in the Mormon heaven (need handshakes to get past the angel guarding the veil); See ex-Mormon site http://www.mormoncurtain.com/(accessed February 25, 2007); David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, http://lds-mormon.com/buerger.shtml (accessed February 25, 2007).
[10] Doctrine and Covenants 116; Journal of Discourses, 10:235; Smith named the Spring Hill, Daviess County, Missouri area Adam-Ondi-Ahman.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
My personal favorite of the heresies is #8 since Smith claimed, in effect, God's Holy Spirit had failed to maintain Apostolic Authority and Salvation once the last Apostle to walk with Jesus died, and God needed to 'restore' that which His Spirit could not maintain so He had to have Joseph Smith for restoring what God's Holy SPirit could not maintain! And Smith seems to think he's that vital to God because old Joe claimed no man ever accomplished what he did, not even Jesus. Sorry folks, if the roots are dangling in a poisonous pool, the fruit is poisonous. Mormonism isnot Christian by any stretch, Mormonism Apologists' imagination notwithstanding.
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
by Jill Martin Rische
On Sunday, February 25, 2007, Meet the Press had an interesting roundtable discussion on Mormonism that reflected the abundance of their journalistic ignorance. What I found particularly amusing (choosing humor in lieu of intense frustration) was their patronizing comment that Christians know very little about Mormonism. They proceeded to cite a recent poll that showed 45% of Evangelicals view Mormonism negatively (although the source of the poll was fuzzy). This seemed a bit illogical, since Christians must know something for the negative percentage to be so high. No mention was made of the unique Mormon beliefs that might cause millions of rational souls to view them with a healthy dose of skepticism. After pondering the wisdom of the media elite (or lack thereof), I decided to research a short list of Mormon facts to help guide them through the dense jungle of Mormon Doctrine:
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
1. Mormons can become gods and goddesses.
2. Goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
3. Mormon women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
4. Mormon men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy.
5. Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.
6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.
7. God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, who is the half brother of Lucifer.
8. All Christian churches are an abomination.
9. Mormons need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
And so you see, 45% of Christians know what thousands of the media elite do not: Mormonism is not Christian.
—————————————————————-
Sources:
[1] Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; J of D 8:115; Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:20
[2] Doctrine and Covenants 84:33-9; Goddesses are always subject to a god. Women are denied the Priesthood (meaning they are denied authority—not the same as Catholic priesthood). “In the LDS universe, theologically described as the real eternal universe, each man who achieves the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is worth many times more than each woman, even the women who qualify at that highest Celestial level, because each man who achieves Godhood-level may have numerous God-wives, but each God-wife may have only one husband. This can only mean that each “heavenly father” is worth many times more than each “heavenly mother.” And, even if the ratio were strictly one to one, the male God, not the female God, holds the priesthood authority and is the only one of the God parents to whom his earth-mortality children are allowed to pray. So Mormon women can never, NEVER achieve equality with men, no matter how outstanding or righteous the women are. That’s just the way it’s set up.” MORMON WOMEN, PROZAC® and THERAPY By Kent Ponder, Ph.D. e-mail address: kponder@swcp.com
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/prozac.htm.
[3] LDS Apostle Orson Pratt wrote, “Each father and mother will be in the condition to multiply forever and ever” (The Seer, 37).
[4] Doctrine and Covenants 132; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269; Men can still be sealed for eternity (not time) to women other than their wives; “The practice of polygamy has been discontinued, but the doctrine of polygamy has never been revoked. D&C 132 is still part of the LDS canon. And some current church practices are still based on polygamous principles.” See pro-Mormon site http://mormonopenforum.blogsome.com/2005/08/02/eternal-polygamy/ (accessed February 25, 2007).
[5] Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:2-4, 9; J of D, 26:214.
[6] Book of Mormon: Alma 3:6-19; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Enos 1:20; J of D, 7: 290-291.
[7] Journal of Discourses 8: 116; J of D 8: 211; J of D 8: 115; Mormon Doctrine p.546-547.
[8] Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:19. Smith claimed God sent him to “restore” true Christianity.
[9] Celestial Kingdom is the highest of 3 levels in the Mormon heaven (need handshakes to get past the angel guarding the veil); See ex-Mormon site http://www.mormoncurtain.com/(accessed February 25, 2007); David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, http://lds-mormon.com/buerger.shtml (accessed February 25, 2007).
[10] Doctrine and Covenants 116; Journal of Discourses, 10:235; Smith named the Spring Hill, Daviess County, Missouri area Adam-Ondi-Ahman.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
My personal favorite of the heresies is #8 since Smith claimed, in effect, God's Holy Spirit had failed to maintain Apostolic Authority and Salvation once the last Apostle to walk with Jesus died, and God needed to 'restore' that which His Spirit could not maintain so He had to have Joseph Smith for restoring what God's Holy SPirit could not maintain! And Smith seems to think he's that vital to God because old Joe claimed no man ever accomplished what he did, not even Jesus. Sorry folks, if the roots are dangling in a poisonous pool, the fruit is poisonous. Mormonism isnot Christian by any stretch, Mormonism Apologists' imagination notwithstanding.
My family “doctor” consults a different book which he says has MORE authority. Therefore the Board (who adheres to the final authority’s “Book”) is authorized to make a determination.
The determination wasn't unanimous, but in the case of this particular doctor, it has been determined by a vast majority that my doctor is indeed a fraudulent quack. You however are free to consult with him regarding your health. It is your right....as long as he doesn't call himself a doctor and hang a fallacious certificate in order to deceive you. As long as he does this, he is subject to censure.
Spiff, my story is an obvious analogy. I suppose it wasn’t obvious to you.
But thanks for calling me a liar.....again.
You have knowledge and evidence of an ongoing crime but have not contacted the authorities?
If some tragic fate befalls even one of this man’s “patients,” you will share some of the blame, because you had the power to stop it.
Well, if you want to determine truth based on majority vote, go for it, but don’t presume to call a “doctor” that doesn’t meet your standards fraudulent.
You just don't like seeing it in black and white.
A lot of what Mormons teach and have taught looks pretty ugly on paper. It sounds and looks ok in the comfort of the Mormon sanctuary, but when it is brought out into the open and exposed to the light, like it is here, it really looks ugly.
Some members will try to paint it in as good a light as possible, while other members, like yourself, will lash out at the messenger and accuse the messenger of lying.
They say that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that barks loudest is the one who got hit.
You don’t always recognize dangerous medical advice until you’re dead. But the doctor’s advice and prescription of constant works probably made my ancestors feel better about themselves.
Also many of them continued swallowing the sugar pills because they were frighted. Some of them actually had knives held to their throat until they swallowed. Of coures they were told it was for their own good.
I should let you know, that over the years we’ve had many family members who left the doctor’s care in order to find actual proper medical advice. Two of my sisters, have now joined me in better care.
Also there are several of the doctor’s ex-patients who are on this very website who try to tell the truth regarding the doctor. They are repeatedly called liars too.
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