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Preaching a Pre-Tribulation Rapture Weakens the Church
ArriveNet ^ | July 7, 2007 | J. Grant Swank, Jr.

Posted on 07/07/2007 7:48:37 PM PDT by tnarg

Mark it down as biblical truth: There is no pre-tribulation rapture.

However, untold thousands believe in the "secret rapture of the church" prior to the tribulation period. This is because untold thousands don't want to have to think of suffering through a tribulation time frame. The late Corrie ten Boom called this pre-trib rapture teaching the "American doctrine." Go figure.

The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation is also because of a best-seller, "The Late, Great Planet Earth," by Hal Lindsey which was set loose in the l960s. It has been a paperback aggressively pushed by practically every evangelical / fundamentalist engine going.

Theologians, videos, films and preachers bolster up this myth with their earnest preachings and teachings.

Yet this is nothing but a myth, accented as much by certain theologically conservative Protestant segments similar unto the Roman Catholic underlining of the immaculate conception of Mary. Nevertheless, if there is no biblical support for such a Mariology teaching, it is bogus. Likewise, the pre-tribulation rapture teaching is bogus.

The pre-trib rapture concept was manufactured in the 1800s in an 18 year old Plymouth Brethren girl's dream, told to her Pastor, John Darby, and then relayed to C. I. Scofield who bought into the dream as revealed truth. Scofield placed this pre-tribulation rapture notion as a footnote in his popular Bible, hence the spread of the myth.

However, just the opposite is biblical truth. In Matthew 24:29-3l, for instance, the rapture ("gathering together") is placed in the same time frame as the open second coming of Jesus Christ. And all of this is "after the tribulation" (verse 29). That is it in a nutshell!

Yet pre-tribulation rapturists sidestep this clear passage for more oblique passages. The latter are twisted and turned in order to fit into the "American doctrine." Yet such twisting is not sound exegesis. And for biblically-riveted evangelicals and fundamentalists to commit this drastic error is bordering on the horrific.

All other passages in Scripture relating to the "gathering together unto Him" must refer back to the literal time line provided by Jesus in Matthew 24.

One must not use a symbolic passage in the Book of Revelation or any other symbolically-based section of the Bible by which to draw a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.

Further, one must not take words of the apostle Paul so as to insert them opportunistically into a conjured pre-tribulation string of Scripture references. Yet this has been done ad infinitum.

Instead, Jesus' literalism of Matthew 24 must be used as the benchmark for all other "gathering together" themes of Scripture.

One starts with literalism and moves into symbolism when seeking to understand Scripture; it is not the other way around.

During the 1970s and 1980s there was much written and preached about a pre-tribulation rapture. This has wound down some in the last decade or so. Why?

Today, with the world situation being what it is, there is not that much risk-taking in preaching dogmatically the pre-tribulation rapture. Why?

Is it because there are many who are beginning to question its validity? Is it because the world state is so uncertain that to go out on a limb with a false hope may ricochet?

One wonders, with world events progressively becoming more and more anti-Christian, why the pre-tribulation rapture persons are not celebrating each dawn as the day when Jesus may return to earth.

Such is not the phenomenon on a large scale. Furthermore, it may be because the next generation has not bought into this notion.

In any case, it is a myth, a legend of conservative Protestantism's own conjuring and has no base in the Holy Scriptures.

Yet these very Protestants are the ones who ardently point out the myths of Catholicism while holding to some of their own myths. Both segments of Christendom need to do some serious housecleaning of manufactured legends in order to return to the simple Bible truths; otherwise, the church suffers from severe lack of knowledge.

What is so frightening about holding to a pre-tribulation rapture? It is more than mere academic quibbling. Holding to such a notion is drastically weakening the church worldwide.

The church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell.

Instead, the church is languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by the demonic powers in order to eventuate in a limp army of believers. And to see that through in this age of laxity in religion does not take much on the part of the dark powers. In addition, the apostate segment of religion is doing its fair share of blackening truth.

Does it take much intelligence to realize that there are awesomely wretched days yet ahead for the righteous remnant?

Those who are not strong will drop--fall away, as biblically predicted. They will be too numerous to contemplate. But for those who are truly into carrying the daily cross there will be nothing able to thwart their zeal for Christ.

Already the remnant is being strengthened by the Spirit of light. He is gathering His own together in the power of the resurrection and the might of the revealed Word. There numbers are few; but their ardor before the Father is lovingly honored.

Set your vision upon the difficulties yet to be. They are but the trials permitted by the coming Christ.

At the close of the tribulation period, then there will be the gathering together of the believers from the four corners of the earth. They will greet Jesus in the clouds as He descends through space, having left the right hand of the Father in heaven.

The gathering together ("rapture") and the second advent then will be realized as one and the same event occurring at the end of the tribulation time frame. Jesus' declaration in Matthew 24:29-3l states it clearly.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: endtimes; rapture; secondcoming; swankwatch
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To: Ping-Pong
The Christians that "reject" Christ do not choose to reject Christ knowingly - they believed the lie.

There is not such thing as a Christian who rejects Christ.

Those mentioned in Rev.7:4 are "of all the tribes of the children of Israel". The Jews, the tribe of Judah, are only one of those tribes.

Where do you get the idea that "Jews" are only those people descended from the Tribe of Judah? That might come as a surprise to some of my Jewish friends whose last names are Levi and Benjamin and Rubin.

121 posted on 07/10/2007 1:17:37 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; Iscool; blue-duncan; Seven_0; xzins
Thank you for those commentaries. It is interesting to read others ideas.

As Christ is related to God, so is Antichrist to Satan, his visible embodiment and manifestation: Satan works through him. Rev_13:2, "The dragon gave him (the beast) his power . . . seat . . . great authority."

The antichrist (which was mistranslated and should read instead-of-Christ) is a role Satan assumes. They are one and the same. In Rev. 13:2 the dragon (Satan) gives power to the "beast", which is the one world system, political power. The anti-christ is the false prophet, the religous entity. It's Satan playing like he is Jesus.

At the 2nd Advent, Christ takes care of them: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Rev.19:20)

Jesus throws both of those roles of Satan's into the fire. Satan will never be able to use that religious and political power again. Satan himself is not killed but held through the millennium (Rev.20:2-3)

Understanding that, I find I can't agree with the references you gave me. When you study the 11Thess.2:9 verse it tells me that it is Christ that comes after the working of Satan.

122 posted on 07/10/2007 1:40:37 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
Understanding that, I find I can't agree with the references you gave me. When you study the 11Thess.2:9 verse it tells me that it is Christ that comes after the working of Satan.

Show me one legitimate commentary that agrees with you.

123 posted on 07/10/2007 1:49:17 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; Diego1618; Seven_0; Iscool; xzins; blue-duncan
There is not such thing as a Christian who rejects Christ.

They don't realize they are P-Marlowe. They beleive they are following Christ. That is how good Satan is at what he does. That is what we are warned about in many scriptures.

Where do you get the idea that "Jews" are only those people descended from the Tribe of Judah? That might come as a surprise to some of my Jewish friends whose last names are Levi and Benjamin and Rubin.

It is an interesting study P-Marlowe and I believe that understanding the difference lets us know who the prophecies are written to.

There are many references to the separate houses. One of those is found in Jeremiah:

36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them;......
31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My People.

Your Jewish friends may not realize the difference in the houses, as many Christians do not, but it is true.

124 posted on 07/10/2007 1:58:27 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: P-Marlowe
Show me one legitimate commentary that agrees with you.

I can't. I don't study different commentaries. At present I'm following the "take heed and follow no man" warning Christ gave us. When, and if, I feel well enough founded in His Word, then I will try to branch out. Until then, that is what the scripture tells me.

125 posted on 07/10/2007 2:02:43 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong; blue-duncan; xzins
I can't. I don't study different commentaries. At present I'm following the "take heed and follow no man" warning Christ gave us

I take it then that you have copies of the original manuscripts for all the scriptures and you are fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek?

If you use a translation, then you are, by default, following some man or men.

While the Holy spirit teaches us all things, we are expected to test all things and to study to shew ourselves approved.

You are coming up with your interpretation of that passage based solely upon your understanding of the English grammar and your assumption that the translator was in agreement with your rather tortured grammatical interpretation of the English translation.

The fact of the matter is that NOBODY agrees with you on this one. So either you are a prophet on a mission from God to straighten us all out, or you are probably wrong. I'm going to go with the latter.

When, and if, I feel well enough founded in His Word, then I will try to branch out. Until then, that is what the scripture tells me.

No that is what you are telling you. The scriptures are saying something entirely different. If you don't believe me, then check with the experts. God put experts on this earth for us to consult. What other purpose could they serve?

126 posted on 07/10/2007 2:55:58 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Ping-Pong; blue-duncan; xzins
There are many references to the separate houses. One of those is found in Jeremiah:

Marlowe shakes head....

Ok, ping, now for your history lesson.

The house of Israel is the nation consisting of all 12 Tribes. The house of Judah is one of the Tribes in the Nation of Israel. Israel is the Father. The Twelve tribes are all decendants of Israel. Jews are descendants of any of the Twelve Tribes of Israel:

Asher
Benjamin
Dan
Gad
Issachar
Joseph*
Judah
Levi
Naphtali
Reuben
Simeon
Zebulun

All references in the bible to the "House of Israel" refer to all twelve tribes of Hebrews or Jews. References to the "house of Judah" refer to the descendants of Judah. But all the descendants of Judah are in the house of Israel.

Maybe you should invest in a commentary. This "take heed and follow no man" stuff isn't working too well for you. Time to get some professional help.

127 posted on 07/10/2007 4:00:47 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
I take it then that you have copies of the original manuscripts for all the scriptures and you are fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek?....If you use a translation, then you are, by default, following some man or men.

Of course you're right, I didn't think of it that way. I use the Companion Bible, E.W. Bullinger, which contain his notes. It is a standard KJ version so I'm also able to use the Strong's Concordance. (By the way, Bullinger believed in rapture).

You are coming up with your interpretation of that passage based solely upon your understanding of the English grammar and your assumption that the translator was in agreement with your rather tortured grammatical interpretation of the English translation.

I don't believe it was "tortured" at all, rather I felt that the commentary you gave me was. It just didn't make sense.

The fact of the matter is that NOBODY agrees with you on this one. So either you are a prophet on a mission from God to straighten us all out, or you are probably wrong. I'm going to go with the latter.

No problem from here. You aren't getting to the point of "questioning my intelligence or good will" are you? After all, we just disagree.

No that is what you are telling you. The scriptures are saying something entirely different. If you don't believe me, then check with the experts. God put experts on this earth for us to consult.

What experts? The Catholics, the Baptists, the Hindu's, those that believe in rapture, those that don't believe in rapture, the scientists, the expert atheist. Those that write the 10,000 different versions of the Bible. No P-Marlowe. My goal is to understand it from His Word. If you don't agree with the things I believe you should show me scripturally why you disagree, not only in the words of other men.

What other purpose could they serve (experts)?

To completly confuse as many people as possible.

128 posted on 07/10/2007 4:47:51 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: P-Marlowe; Diego1618; xzins; blue-duncan; Iscool; Seven_0
You seem to be a nice guy that's just a little upset right now because of the rapture squabble. However, you are becoming more and more condescending. It isn't nice. I thought this is what you so disliked about a previous poster. I have been "turning the other cheek" but it is getting tiresome.

The house of Israel is the nation consisting of all 12 Tribes. The house of Judah is one of the Tribes in the Nation of Israel. Israel is the Father. The Twelve tribes are all decendants of Israel. Jews are descendants of any of the Twelve Tribes of Israel:

I'm afraid that isn't right. As I said, there are many references to the separate houses but they will be brought together again:

Ez.37:16. Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions; then take another stick, and write upon it, for Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17.And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
22.And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

All references in the bible to the "House of Israel" refer to all twelve tribes of Hebrews or Jews. References to the "house of Judah" refer to the descendants of Judah. But all the descendants of Judah are in the house of Israel.

I'm afraid that isn't correct either.

Maybe you should invest in a commentary. This "take heed and follow no man" stuff isn't working too well for you. Time to get some professional help.

Thank you for the suggestion she says as she turns her cheek yet once again.

129 posted on 07/10/2007 5:07:38 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: P-Marlowe; Ping-Pong
The house of Israel is the nation consisting of all 12 Tribes. The house of Judah is one of the Tribes in the Nation of Israel. Israel is the Father. The Twelve tribes are all descendants of Israel. Jews are descendants of any of the Twelve Tribes of Israel:

How then, do you reconcile [II Kings 16:1-6]? 1 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign. 2 Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father. 3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel. 4 And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree. 5 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him. 6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.

As you can see by this scripture the Jews are at war against Syria......and Israel. Does this mean, in your opinion, that the Jewish Judaites are at war with the Jewish Israelites.....or just how do you reconcile this?

[II Chronicles 11:1] And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he gathered of the house of Judah and Benjamin an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against Israel, that he might bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam.

The Southern Kingdom of Judah consisted of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and most of Levi. You can read about their return from Babylon in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. You will not find one mention in those books of any other tribe of Israel as they had been exiled to Assyria about 125 years earlier. It was the writers of the books after the Babylonian Captivity who coined the term Jew....as someone belonging to the Tribe of Judah. You will not find in scripture any tribe of the Northern Kingdom being referred to as a Jew. They were Israelites! Jews were also Israelites, but not all Israelites were Jews.

130 posted on 07/10/2007 5:49:23 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618; Ping-Pong

You’re probably right


131 posted on 07/10/2007 6:23:45 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Diego1618; P-Marlowe; Ping-Pong
“You will not find in scripture any tribe of the Northern Kingdom being referred to as a Jew.”

Read the book of Esther. All of Israel in the many dispersions under Assyria, Syria or Chaldea are referred to as Jews since Persia controlled the entire middle east including Greece and Egypt. Ahaseurus’ edict took days to get to the farthest part of the kingdom so they extended the time for retribution. It was not just Judah, Benjamin and Levi that they were looking for but all of Israel in exile and they were called Jews.

Apollos born in Alexandria was called a Jew. Aquilla born in Pontus was a Jew. Sceva born in Ephesus was a Jew as were the vagabonds. John calls the Passover and the feast of tabernacles “Jewish” feast and the religion of the temple and synagogues, “Jewish”. It is utter nonsense to make any difference between the tribes in the new covenant since their is no distinction between Jew and gentile until the end times when god makes a differentiation by calling out 12,000 from each tribe of Israel.

132 posted on 07/10/2007 7:02:19 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Diego1618; P-Marlowe; Ping-Pong

“It was the writers of the books after the Babylonian Captivity who coined the term Jew....as someone belonging to the Tribe of Judah.”

Along with Esther perhaps one should read Jeremiah 40:11-12, “Likewise when all the Jews that were in Moab, and among the Ammonites, and in Edom, and that were in all the countries, heard that the king of Babylon had left a remnant of Judah, and that he had set over them Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan; Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much.”

This was written before the return from exile and the dispersions were under the Assyrians since Chaldea took the exiles to Babylon.


133 posted on 07/10/2007 7:12:39 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Diego1618; Ping-Pong
It was not just Judah, Benjamin and Levi that they were looking for but all of Israel in exile and they were called Jews.

Golly, maybe I wasn't wrong.

134 posted on 07/10/2007 7:14:49 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: tnarg

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

Now answer this question, who is going to make up the army Christ leads to defeat the minions of Satan if we have to go through Tribulation? It won’t be the those saved out of Tribulation, so it would stand to reason that it would be us. So, how do we get to Heaven in order to come back with Christ?


135 posted on 07/10/2007 7:56:54 PM PDT by swmobuffalo (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.)
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To: blue-duncan; Ping-Pong; P-Marlowe
Along with Esther perhaps one should read Jeremiah 40:11-12, “Likewise when all the Jews that were in Moab, and among the Ammonites, and in Edom, and that were in all the countries, heard that the king of Babylon had left a remnant of Judah, and that he had set over them Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan; Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much.”

My sources tell me that Esther was written sometime after the return from Babylon as the events spoken of took place around 486-465 B.C. The Persian capital was called "Shusan" (Susa) and this was during the reign of Ahasueras....usually known as Xerxes by the Greeks. The traditional view of the date of Esther is 465-424 B.C. during the reign of "Xerxes" Longimanus and Josephus concurs with this date. The Babylonian exile was commonly thought to have occurred about 595 B.C. and and the return 70 years later would have been 525 B.C. Not all of the Jews returned to Judah after receiving permission to do so....and Mordecai is a good example.

[Esther 2:5-7] Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite. Who had been carried away from Jerusalem with the captivity which had been carried away with Jeconiah king of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away. And he brought up Hadassah, that is, Esther, his uncle's daughter: for she had neither father nor mother, and the maid was fair and beautiful; whom Mordecai, when her father and mother were dead, took for his own daughter.

As I said in my earlier post, The Kingdom of Judah (Jews) consisted of the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and most of Levi.

You are correct in that the King of Babylon left a remnant in Judah during the captivity. This was not the case during the Assyrian exile....all were taken. [II Kings 17:18] Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. And........[II Kings 17:22-24] For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them. Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day. And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.

Notice that the Northern Kingdom is still there....in Assyria when this book is written. The Books of the Kings and The Chronicles were written after the return from Babylon.

136 posted on 07/10/2007 8:03:22 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618; Ping-Pong; P-Marlowe
It still does not support your argument that “Jew” refers only to Judah, Benjamin and parts of Levi”. During the time of Esther, Israel was spread throughout all 127 provinces of Persia spreading throughout the Mediterranean area. “Jew” referred to all the dispersed tribes of Israel. Just because Mordecai was a Benjamite does not change the issue.

The passage from Jeremiah speaks of Jews who were driven out of the land. Judah was taken to Babylon in three exiles; these Jews were driven out into exile to Moab, Ammon and Edom which is more in keeping with the way the Assyrians moved people out of their lands and brought other conquered peoples in. That is how the Samaritans came into being by foreigners intermarrying with the Jews of northern Israel.

137 posted on 07/10/2007 8:41:29 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Ping-Pong; P-Marlowe
The passage from Jeremiah speaks of Jews who were driven out of the land.

Here is what the passage from Jeremiah says. [Jeremiah 40:11-12] 11 Likewise when all the Jews that were in Moab, and among the Ammonites, and in Edom, and that were in all the countries, heard that the king of Babylon had left a remnant of Judah, and that he had set over them Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan; 12 Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much.

Whither they were driven....Strongs #5080. nadach (naw-dakh')a primitive root; to push off; used in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively (to expel, mislead, strike, inflict, etc.banish, bring, cast down (out), chase, compel, draw away, drive (away, out, quite), fetch a stroke, force, go away, outcast, thrust away (out), withdraw. )

The first verse of Ruth gives us a good example of why Jews were in Moab. [Ruth 1:1] Now it came to pass in the days when the judges ruled, that there was a famine in the land. And a certain man of Bethlehemjudah went to sojourn in the country of Moab, he, and his wife, and his two sons.

When Moses had led the Israelites to the promised land he took the upper portion of Moab away from the Ammorite King, Sihon....who had taken the land earlier from the Moabites [Numbers 21:26] For Heshbon was the city of Sihon the king of the Amorites, who had fought against the former king of Moab, and taken all his land out of his hand, even unto Arnon. The river Arnon thus separated the Moab of Israel from the Moab of the Moabites. The reason the Israelites wanted this land (called the Plains of Moab) was because two of their tribes had a lot of cattle and these "Plains of Moab" were ideal for cattle raising. This area was located directly east of the Dead Sea on the eastern bank of the Jordan.

[Numbers 32:1-4] Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle; The children of Gad and the children of Reuben came and spake unto Moses, and to Eleazar the priest, and unto the princes of the congregation, saying, Ataroth, and Dibon, and Jazer, and Nimrah, and Heshbon, and Elealeh, and Shebam, and Nebo, and Beon, Even the country which the LORD smote before the congregation of Israel, is a land for cattle, and thy servants have cattle If you check your Bible maps you will see that "Jazer and Gilead" are indeed on the Plains of Moab north of the River Arnon.

These were the lands of the two tribes of Israel, Rueben and Gad....so when Naomi and family went to Moab [Ruth 1:1], it was here they went to escape the famine......not to heathen Moab below the river Arnon. Many other families followed suit and this was how there came to be so many Jews living in the areas of Moab and Ammon according to Jeremiah. Ammon of course being the name for the Kingdom of the Ammorites who had previously taken this land from heathen Moab.

These Jews were not driven to these areas by the Assyrians....they went to escape nature...to live with their sister Israelites, Ruben and Gad. Ruth was an Israelite of Moab and when Boaz asks his servant "Who is this woman" and is told "she is a Moabitess" it's a mis-translation. {Ruth 2:5-6] Then said Boaz unto his servant that was set over the reapers, Whose damsel is this? And the servant that was set over the reapers answered and said, It is the Moabitish damsel that came back with Naomi out of the country of Moab. Ruth was called a Moabitess much the same way as an Englishmen moving to Australia.... would then be called an Australian. Moab retained the same name much the same way that California has retained the same name it was known by under Spanish/Mexican rule.

"Country of Moab" Strong's #7704. sadeh (saw-deh')or saday {saw-dah'-ee}; from an unused root meaning to spread out; a field (as flatcountry, field, ground, land, soil, X wild.) The country of Moab was referring to the "Plains of Moab"....not the Kingdom of Moab as most everyone seem to think. Samuel, when writing the Book of Ruth, used the word country as in "Countryside".

The Jews in those lands were the ones who returned to Judah after hearing the King of Babylon had left a remnant in Judah [Jeremiah 40:11-12].

To reiterate....you will not find anywhere in scripture folks of the Northern Kingdom of Israel being referred to as Jews. Yes, you find it many times in literature, but it is in error.

138 posted on 07/10/2007 9:49:51 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: blue-duncan; xzins; Ping-Pong; Diego1618

The Ten Lost Tribes

by Chuck Missler

This month (June 1995) we celebrate the Feast of Shavout, or Pentecost. In Peter's famous speech on this day in Acts Chapter 2, he referred to both "Jews" and "Israel", which brings up an ubiquitous myth concerning the "Ten Lost Tribes" of Israel.

There are many groups that believe the northern tribes, separated during the rift between Rehoboam and Jeroboam after the death of Solomon (and subsequently taken captive by Assyria in 722 b.c.), later migrated to Europe and elsewhere.

The myth of the "Ten Lost Tribes" is the basis for "British- Israelism" and other colorful legends, but these stories have no real Biblical basis. They are based upon misconceptions derived from the misreading of various Bible passages.1

The Faithful Voted With Their Feet

Before the Assyrian captivity, substantial numbers from the northern tribes had identified themselves with the house of David.2 The rebellion of Jeroboam and subsequent crises caused many to repudiate the Northern Kingdom and unite with the Southern Kingdom in a common alliance to the house of David and a desire to worship the Lord in Jerusalem.3

In 930 b.c., Jeroboam ruled the Northern Kingdom from his capital in Samaria.4 When Jeroboam turned the Northern Kingdom to idolatry, the Levites (and others who desired to remain faithful) migrated south to Rehoboam.5

Horrified that Jeroboam had set up a rival religion with golden calf worship at Bethel and Dan, many Northerners moved south, knowing that the only place acceptable to God was the Temple on Mt. Moriah.6 Those who favored idolatry migrated north to Jeroboam.

Later, when Asa reigned as king in the south, another great company came from the north.7

Years after the deportation by Assyria, King Hezekiah of Judah issued a call to all Israel to come and worship in Jerusalem and celebrate the Passover.8 Eighty years later King Josiah of Judah also issued a call, and an offering for the Temple was received from "Manasseh and Ephraim and all the remnant of Israel...."9

Eventually, all 12 tribes were represented in the south. God even addresses the 12 tribes in the south: "Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin...."10

The "tribe of Judah" (2 Kings 17:18, et al.) is used idiomatically for the Southern Kingdom.11 When encountering the tribal designations, it is important to distinguish between the territories allocated to the tribes and the people themselves.

The Northern Kingdom Falls

In 724 b.c. Shalmaneser V besieged Samaria for three years. King Hoshea of Israel attempted to revolt against paying Assyrians annual tribute money--a treaty with Pharaoh of Egypt did not help 12--and Samaria, Jeroboam's capital, fell in 722 b.c. with Sargon II seizing power in 721 b.c.

The Assyrians implemented their infamous policy of mixing conquered peoples to keep them from organizing a revolt. Israelite captives were mixed with Persians and others, and strangers from far-off lands were resettled in Samaria. The resulting mixed, quasi-Jewish populations became the "Samaritans."13 (You can read about this "fall" in 2 Kings 17.)

Not all from the Northern Kingdom were deported. Archaeologists have uncovered annals of the Assyrian Sargon, in which he tells that he carried away only 27,290 people and 50 chariots.14

Population estimates of the Northern Kingdom at that time range from 400,000 to 500,000; less than 1/20th were deported-- mostly the leadership from the capital, Samaria. The rest of the Northern Kingdom were taken by Assyria as slaves, which were a valuable commodity. (It is difficult to view the Assyrians as careless enough to let their captives wander off to Europe.)

When the Babylonians take over Assyria, the descendants of the "ten tribes" were probably again commingled with the captives of Judah.

The Babylonians Take Over

When the Northern Kingdom went into captivity (722 b.c.), all 12 tribes were also represented in the south. When the Babylonians took the Southern Kingdom into captivity (586 b.c.), members of all 12 tribes of Israel were involved. Isaiah, prophesying to Judah, refers to them as the "House of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel..." (Isaiah 48:1; cf. vv. 12-14).

Post-Captivity Terminology

After the Babylonian captivity, the terms "Jew" and "Israelite" are used interchangeably. Ezra calls the returning remnant "Jews" 8 times and "Israel" 40 times. (Ezra also speaks of "all Israel": Ezra 2:70; 3:11; 8:35; 10:25, et al.) Nehemiah uses the term "Jew" 11 times and "Israel" 22 times. Nehemiah too speaks of "all Israel" being back in the land (Nehemiah 12:47). The remnant who returned from Babylon is represented as "the nation" (Malachi 1:1, et al.).

The same is true in the New Testament. Our Lord is said to have offered Himself to the nation, "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:5-6; 15:24). Tribes other than Judah are mentioned specifically in the New Testament as being represented in the land.15

Anna knew her tribal identity was of the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36). Paul knew he was of the tribe of Benjamin, a "Jew" and an "Israelite" (Romans 11:1). The New Testament speaks of "Israel" 75 times and uses the word "Jew" 174 times.16

At the Feast of Pentecost Peter cries, "Ye men of Judea" (Acts 2:14), "ye men of Israel..." (Acts 2:22), and "All the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36).

Regathered as One

Ezekiel 36 and 37, the Dry Bones Vision, declares that Judah (Jews) and Israel (10 tribes) shall be joined as one in the regathering.17 This is true today. (The total physical descendants were not the people to whom the promises were made [Romans 9:4-7].)

Anti-Semitism

Accompanying some of the legends of the so-called "Ten Lost Tribes" are aspersions on the present State of Israel and the people being regathered in the Land. These various theories such as "British Israelism" are by their nature anti-Semitic because they deny the Jewish people their proper place in the plan of God. Let's remember that Genesis 12:3 has never been repealed!

Israel is being regathered in the land just as God has announced.18 There is yet to come an event which will awaken them to realize that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob once again has His hand upon them (Ezekiel 38, 39). I believe this event could happen at any moment. 19

The Throne of David was promised to the Son of Mary (Luke 1:32). I believe His taking possession of it is on the near horizon. Maranatha!

Sources:

  1. Lewis, David Allen, Can Israel Survive in a Hostile World?, New Leaf Press, 1993.
  2. Scofield, C.I., The New Scofield Study Bible, notes on 2 Kings 17:23.
This article was originally published in the
June 1995 Personal Update NewsJournal.

For a FREE 1-Year Subscription, click here.


**NOTES**

  1. 2 Kings 17:7-23; 2 Chronicles 6:6-11, etc.
  2. 1 Kings 12:16-20; 2 Chronicles 11:16-17.
  3. 2 Chronicles 19:4; 30:1, 10-11, 25-26; 34:5- 7, 22; 35:17-18.
  4. 1 Kings 11:43-12:33.
  5. 2 Chronicles 11:14-17.
  6. Deuteronomy 12:5-7; 16:2-6; Isaiah 18:7.
  7. 2 Chronicles 15:9.
  8. Chronicles 30:5-6, 10-11, 21.
  9. 2 Chronicles 34:9.
  10. 2 Chronicles 11:3.
  11. Cf. 1 Kings 11:13, 32.
  12. 2 Kings 18:2.
  13. John 4:20-22.
  14. Biblical Archaeology, VI, 1943, page 58.
  15. Matthew 4:13, 15; Luke 2:36; Acts 4:36; Philipians 3:5; "the twelve tribes," Acts 26:7; James 1:1.
  16. Acts 21:39; 22:3; Romans 11:1; 2 Corinthians 4 11:22; Philipians 3:5, etc.
  17. Ezekiel 37:16-17, 21-22.
  18. Ezekiel 36, 37; Isaiah 11:11, et al.
  19. SeeThe Magog Invasion Audio Book for more information on the predicted invasion of Israel and its role in the end times.

139 posted on 07/10/2007 10:14:52 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: blue-duncan
However, when the passage is clear to search for the esoteric to satisfy preconceived ideas is to turn the scriptures over to the professionals and the unscrupulous thus denying the perspicuity of the word.

Things that are clear to us may not be clear to others and things that are difficult to understand today may be easy to understand in the future. Many Christians are content to receive only the milk. They are not willing to make the effort to receive the meat that would choke the babe in Christ. Scripture will always be esoteric because the author has packed it so full of treasure that a lifetime is not sufficient to receive it all.
140 posted on 07/10/2007 10:15:44 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]


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