Skip to comments.No, I'm Not Offended [R. Albert Mohler, Jr./Southern Baptist Theological Seminary]
Posted on 07/13/2007 8:52:11 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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No one is offended by Mormons. We just completely disagree with them. Like Mohler said, it is not an emotional issue.
There is one particular religious group that offends me. It is those weasily dodgers known as the Emergent Church. They offend me because they are not straight talkers. It’s insulting to all intelligence.
“No one is offended by Mormons.”
Oh, my Goodness, I wish that were true.
Two things are offensive. First, the pressure to disregard core beliefs in exchange for some kind of emotional unity as though we merely think each other into heaven or hell. Second, the shifty dishonesty of some who are merely trying to tear down true belief, hiding behind a phony faith that changes form about every other minute (the Emergents).
fyi, I guess weasily isn’t a word. I mean they are weasels. But hey, why not make up a word about them and just define it myself (sly, dishonest, sneaky, deceptive, misleading, shifty..). They make up words all the time. When they don’t do that they just take existing words and redefine them. I hate that deceptive practice.
That's because Mohler was just a tad off on the second one. The document (which you should read if you haven't) states that the "ecclesial Communities" are not churches "in the proper sense" because they lack a claim to apostolic succession and thus a valid sacramental life.
As an Orthodox Christian, I do not find the CDF’s pronouncement to be offensive at all. It is consistent with the CDF’s earlier “Dominus Iesus,” which pretty much reflects the teaching of Vatican II. I see the Russian Orthdox Church’s reaction to the document as far more sensible than that of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarch (whom I’m not even sure read the document).
Certainly, the Roman Catholic Church’s view of the Eastern Orthodox Church is generally more charitable than the Orthodox view of the Roman Catholics. The Roman Catholic Church at least calls Orthodoxy “a true church” with real sacraments and a real priesthood, and real apostolic succession. OTOH, the Orthodox view of Roman Catholicism has not always been as consistent or positive. There are opinions within Orthodoxy that view Roman Catholicism as not having any validity as a church or with any real Holy Mysteries. There are also opinions within Orthodoxy that view the Roman Catholics in a way that is analogous to the way the Roman Catholic Church views Orthodoxy. So, from an Orthodox POV, I take no offence whatsoever.
I find it remarkable that certain Protestants and Evangelicals would be offended. Rome’s position is not different than it was 40 years ago. If anything, it’s friendlier towards Protestantism and Evangelicalism now than it was before Vatican II. At least the Roman Catholic Church acknowledges elements of truth and sanctity within those communities. The main issue is regarding the name “church.” However, given the notion that a bishop with the presbytery, the diaconate and laity, celebrating a true Eucharist at the altar is essential for the church, it should be no small wonder that the name “church” is not applied by the Roman Catholic Church to the Protestants and also the Evangelicals. The Reformation fundamentally disagreed with Rome on the nature of the priesthood and the sacrifice of the Mass and the change of the bread and wine. The Reformers called the Catholic Mass an “abomination” and “idolatry” (Jack Chick still does!), and the Roman Catholics, in turn, denied that the Protestants had a true Eucharist and priesthood. With this in mind, I am struggling to understand why anyone would be in an uproar over the Roman Catholic Church expressing a view fairly consistent with its historical teaching—albeit now with more positive reckognition of good within Protestantism and the newer Evangelicals, which came from Protestantism.
Certainly Rome’s view towards especially Evangelicalism is, in generally, far more charitable than Evangelicalism’s view towards Rome. I have had many discussions with Fundies and heard their strong denunciations of “Romanism” and “Popery” and affirm confidently that Roman Catholics are hellbound. Jack Chick is not a minority within Evangelicalism WRT how Roman Catholics (and probably by similarity—Eastern Orthodox) are viewed.
Thus, I find any offence at the CDF’s pronouncement to be somewhat irrational.
Cool! Let's go knock each other's heads off, or burn each other at the stake (joke, yes, really).
At least we should all fight over important things. Maybe the "eccumenapause" disgrace of the modern church is finally passing...it will not be missed.
Welcome to FreeRepublic!
At last one of these guys gets it. Doh!
You’re right. The protestant rebellion was a scourge, as is the coming Koranic scourge. God cleans house in interesting ways.