Posted on 07/14/2007 6:29:17 PM PDT by NYer
“While you have no desire, some of us do attend a NO Mass.”
As do I.
And I will continue to attend as long as the Mass is valid and reverent, assuming that the TLM does not become available locally.
To knowingly participate in an invalid mass is idolatry.
To knowingly participate in a egregiously irreverent Mass is sacrilege.
I am so thankful that my local priest is so reverent and that the Mass celebrated IS valid.
“...as long as he is a validly ordained priest, the Mass is valid. Thus the consecration, Communion, etc. are also valid.”
That is not exactly accurate, although probably in most cases Consecration is valid. The priest can indeed invalidate consecration, not by his sinfulness, ignorance or lack of belief, not accidentally, but by intention, which granted is probably rare.
But if priests intentionally do things that are obviously heretical, scandalous and sacriligious, in word and deed, I do not doubt there may be a few that deliberately obfuscate the transmission of divine grace to suit their own diabolical purposes.
“He only has to bring the Music Director into his way of thinking. He been working on it for three years now, and we are starting to see slight changes in the music.”
Slight changes? Who signs the music directors paycheck?
It doesn’t take three years to say: “Schedule only traditionally Catholic music for Mass and knock off the hootnanny stuff.”
You have FReepmail.
Yes, I read that “special edition” cover to cover, pretty slick PR piece, especially the gushing quotations from “regular” parishioners.
Sadly, while the lawsuits may be wrapped up, the larger issue is far from being “all settled” when one of the outcomes is the creation of a full-time office in the Archdiocese to force-feed pop-psychology, secular sex-ed material on Catholic school students, DRE’s and religious ed children, and another is the protection of homosexual interests in the chancellery.
I have been integrally involved with the process since 2004 and I assure you the glowing representations in the Archdiocesan newsletter do not paint the entire picture.
The domination of parishes by the “music ministry” is another problem that seems very common. Why does it take three years for a priest to “bring him around” to his viewpoint? It should take about 10 minutes. The priest gives the music folks the Vatican directives on appropriate music, tells them what it means and advises what hymns, instruments, etc are not to be used. Music leader doesn’t want to comply, get another one. Even the term “music minister” implies an authority that is not there. It should be “servant” or some such, not minister.
“To knowingly participate in a egregiously irreverent Mass is sacrilege.”
I never quite thought of it that way before, and it sort of is the opposite idea of “go along to get along.” I guess it is very hard to know where to draw the line, and how to do so, by leaving or by confronting? Hmmmm.
I am impressed that you can freely call your pastor on a Saturday night. All this ‘right hand man to the bishop’ stuff is nice, but keep in mind most likely the bishop has never observed the priest offering Mass. This may be a misguided priest who is sincere and devout, and therefore has the trust of the bishop (or perhaps not and they’re in cahoots for any number of reasons, but assuming the best), but simply has over the years of ‘deformations’ has fallen into some mistaken ideas of how to offer Mass. If the bishop knew the details, maybe he would kindly and gently offer correction. Just a guess here.
As NYer might say............”Just out Bishop Hubbard of Albany diocese. Not good news, sorry to say.
“I never quite thought of it that way before, and it sort of is the opposite idea of “go along to get along.” I guess it is very hard to know where to draw the line, and how to do so, by leaving or by confronting? Hmmmm.”
Yes. It’s a tough call. Discussed this issue with like minded parishioners. Everyone draws a different line.
The hula dancer a few years ago - definitely walk out time, letter to the padre, pull contribution etc.
Banal, cheesy OCP pop-slop - put in earplugs, pull out rosary time. Definitely don’t sing the stuff.
Jokes by the “presider” during Mass - wince and say a prayer time.
Hootnanny music (e.g. Lord of the Dance) - Walk out time, watch Mass on EWTN, send $50.00 check to Mother Angelica.
“All this ‘right hand man to the bishop’ stuff is nice, but keep in mind most likely the bishop has never observed the priest offering Mass.”
You are very kind to the bishop.
Very possibly he has concelebrated with the padre on the padres turf at confirmations, special events etc.
Some of the loosiest and goosiest Masses I have seen were Confirmation Masses with our esteemed archbishop taking part.
Priest invoking Allah during the intercessory prayers!?! I kid you not. Retired shortly thereafter.
I believe you.
He probably argued that Allah just means God in Arabic.
He knew what he was doing (IMO).
Why are these guys so willing to do anything to appear uberecumenical?
The Mohammadans would laugh at us for this sort of thing, if they knew how to laugh.
**Priest invoking Allah during the intercessory prayers!?! **
Good grief! Where did that happen?
St. Augustine’s, Lincoln City, BUT let me clarify, not by the current pastor! The priest there now, Fr. Amancio, is wonderful, devout, and has apparently been gradually trying to instill a bit more sense of reverence and quiet since he took over a few years ago.
OH no!? You jumped ship? Consider, things are finally starting to shape up in the Catholic church, with Pope Benedict making new appointments all over the Curia, and his new Summum Pontificum. I do know how you feel, at times, I’ve said I’m just not taking this anymore. Once I even went to a Baptist church for a few weeks, the music was great! But there is no replacement for the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist, that only are available in the True Church of Christ. I hope you will find your way back to some nice, good Catholic parish.
“Somehow I doubt God is in his heaven fuming at all those Catholics who aren’t studying the particulars of what makes a valid Mass. “
I don’t think that was implied, or that it is the point.
In every parish of this diocese I have seen parishoners that are so poorly catechised that they not only sit still for all sorts of nonsense, they seem to think it’s the way things are supposed to be.
I will never forget the shock I felt at seeing an entire church full of people make the Nazi “Seig Heil” gesture. Nobody turned a hair when a priest celebrating Easter Mass clapped on a cowboy hat and marched back and forth in front of the altar prattling about how it was his “Easter bonnet.” He said nary a word about Our Lord’s Resurrection.
Another church carted in a hot tub and plonked it down in front of the altar so they could do full-immersion baptisms. The secretary in the altar told me it was the coming thing in the Church. That priest also got up and told his parishoners that the Miracle of the Transfiguration didn’t happen.
No church in the diocese has a proper crucifix near the altar. Tabernacles are hidden. The host and wine are placed in glass vessels for consecration. Music is exclusively OCP tripe played hootenanny style. Platoons of extraordinarily obnoxious laymen and lay women block the aisles so that you can’t reach the priest to receive the Eucharist from consecrated hands.
Now, nobody would think that God “fumes,” but I hardly think that He is pleased with this sort of disrespect.
I prayed a Rosary for the intention of finding a priest last week. Subsequently a freeper mailed me a phone number for a priest a few hundred miles from here. That priest was gone, but the lady that answered the phone gave me the number of the priest who replaced him. This priest is a 70-year-old FSSP priest. It did me a lot of good to talk to him.
He also said that if the masses are that bad, I don’t have to go. That’s not much of a solution, as I have only been able to receive the Eucharist twice since April 2006, because the bishop and priests of this diocese are so miserly with the sacrament of absolution.
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