Posted on 07/14/2007 11:57:32 PM PDT by restornu
A document released this week by the Vatican, which declares the Catholic Church's primacy and can be seen as deeming other Christian communities defective, has stirred up outrage.
Pope Benedict XVI signed off on the statement, only days after he moved to reinstitute the Latin Mass (which also rankled some), as a way to correct "erroneous interpretation" of the Second Vatican Council's 1960s teachings, which many considered a breakthrough in fostering dialogue between Christian traditions.
As a result, letters of criticism have flourished among some Protestants whose denominations, in the statement, are referred to as "communities" and not churches "in the proper sense." Orthodox churches, on the other hand, are considered "sister" churches because they "have true sacraments" and "apostolic succession," a continued succession of bishops dating back to St. Peter.
Calling the statement, which refers to the Catholic Church as the "one Church of Christ," "disappointing and regressive," Bishop Carolyn Tanner Irish of the Episcopal Diocese of Utah wondered in a written response why, in a time already steeped in division and when ecumenism is most necessary, the pope would issue comments that "will not help our efforts to find common ground and to move forward together."
"I don't believe any church owns the door to salvation or the table to which Christ invites us," she said.
But Bishop John Wester of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City said Thursday he didn't see the cause for concern. Like so many religions who view their own way as the right path, he said, "We believe that this is the way to salvation. . .but that doesn't mean no one else can be saved, as I read the document."
Scott Trotter, spokesman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, weighed in Friday saying, "We are neither offended nor concerned when other faith traditions assert their authority. As stated in our 11th Article of Faith: 'We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where or what they may.' "
Based on history and personal understanding, Wester said he knows Pope Benedict XVI to be "very interested in ecumenical and interfaith dialogue."
He called Tuesday's statements "technical, theological clarifications," meant to lay out for Catholics "how we as a Catholic Church define what a church is." Word choices such as "defects," in describing what other communities "suffer from," are technical, too, he said, and aren't meant to offend or be viewed "in the parlance of everyday language."
By clarifying terms internally, Wester hopes the statement will allow Catholics "to have a more effective dialogue."
Tom McClenahan shares the same hope. The academic dean of the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, Utah's only graduate school for Protestant clergy, said Friday he was "surprised by the flap."
"We knew that the Roman Church insists that everyone recognize the primacy of the pope," he said. Those who are upset "seem to think this might hurt their ecumenical conversations with Rome, but it seems Pope Benedict is just saying what the Vatican has said before."
Even in Vatican II, McClenahan said Protestants were referred to as "separated brethren." The fact they are described as "ecclesial communities" in this statement is a step up, he said.
"I'll go for that," McClenahan said. "That's a long way from pronouncing anathemas on Martin Luther. There's great hope in this kind of talk."
This is nothing new under the sun. Catholics have believed this way forever. Evangelicals feel the same, that the Catholic religion is a false, man made religion. Oh well.
I was raised a Catholic. Due to my beliefs I left Catholicism and became Christian. You could say the 10 Commandments opened my eyes. see.. I have a problem with some of their customs like statues, images, etc.. some Catholic regions worship the Virgin Mary more than they worship God.
“4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”
I did not realize how much has changed since 2004 towards the Catholics on FR from other Christian faiths.
When I was younger I was raised protestant but deep down I was always has a fondness for the Catholic Church.
The music was beautiful and workmanship of Love that man had for his religion was a work of art!
I have always felt comfort from faithful Catholic who studied their scriptures.
Exactly. Though I am a Protestant, I fing=d nothing offensive about this statement that would reflect the views of any Christian who views the teachings of his church as correct. I disagree in substance, but find it reasonable.
The Pope is only saying what each of us believes about his or her church.
the
See, you can say all that nonsense and it doesn't bother me at all. So why must protestants get theirs in a bunch when Catholics talk to each other.
What sort of person belongs to a religion that they don't believe is true?
I think part of the problem is that people are taught, these days, to wallow in “feelings” rather than use reason.
100% correct statement, no room for error,debate, or misinterpretation, that is unless you're a moron.
All the denominations believe the other is wrong in some point of faith, I guess. Nothing novel here. What I find interesting is that when the Pope says it, other denominations get riled it. It’s like they are bad children who still want to be loved by their father, but on their own terms.
Thank you. Your post is very reasonable. As a Catholic, I think this document was meant to clear up confusion among some Catholics that have been misled by renegade priests and “scholars” into believing that certain Catholic beliefs no longer apply. There are many within the Church that seek to undermine authentic Catholic teaching. This document was not meant to be an attack on our Protestant brothers and sisters, just a clarification of Catholic beliefs. We have much in common, especially in our battles against the secularists, but it is still important to recognize our differences.
You sound miffed.
Freegards
**”We knew that the Roman Church insists that everyone recognize the primacy of the pope,” he said.**
This is the real reason this was pronounced. Totally biblical. Go back and read about Jesus and Peter.
Unless you have filled out loads of paperwork, you are still a Catholic.
You can come back to the Catholic Church at any time. We will welcome you with open arms.
Just find a priest you can sit down and talk with and know that he will answer your questions.
**You could say the 10 Commandments opened my eyes. see.. I have a problem with some of their customs like statues, images, etc.. some Catholic regions worship the Virgin Mary more than they worship God.**
The Catholic Church believes and supports the Ten Commandments. I don’t know where you are getting your faulty information. Talk with a priest.
We ask Mary to pray FOR us...............much like you might ask your mother to pray FOR you. That’s it!
If you think that Catholics worship the saints or the images of saints, then you learned nothing about the Catholic faith when you were growing up. And you still know as little now as you did then. Too bad.
Episcopalians such as Ms. Irish also believe their faith is the “true” faith. They are just not saying so in public.
Without the Catholic Church and the Pope to rail against and feel superior to many of these people would have nothing of substance to say. It grounds them in their positions. In that sense, the Catholic Church IS the Mother Church. In essence, that is all the Pope is saying.
Was that a slur at me sir?
Could not have said it better!
You’re not that important, Resty.
Due to my beliefs I left Catholicism and became Christian >>
Catholics ARE Christians. You mean you became a Protestant.
.
What the pope did was simply to call to an end to the watering down process of Catholic docrine that has been going on the last 40 years. Catholics need to be true to their faith.
>>>Due to my beliefs I left Catholicism and became Christian.<<<
You left yourself to become yourself???
:P
You’ve seen this, right?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1858886/posts?page=70#70
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1858886/posts?page=71#71
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1858886/posts?page=72#72
As Southern Baptist leader Richard Land said, NEWSFLASH!, the Pope’s a Catholic!
Richard Land says the news media is either trying to divide Christians, or are ignorant.
I hope all Christians won’t let that happen.
Thanks rest :-)
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Nope
Catholic = Christian.
You could say the 10 Commandments opened my eyes.
The 10 Commandments are an integral part of the Catholic faith. What in the 10 Commandments "opened your eyes"?
I have a problem with some of their customs like statues, images, etc.. some Catholic regions worship the Virgin Mary more than they worship God.
Catholics do not worship Mary. Where did you get that idea?
Than could you explain your use of moron to a Mormon?
The word really did not fit your diologue!
This was posted 462 years ago.
exactly.
my apologies to everyone who finds my interpretation flawed and offensive. World religions are in place temporarily and will serve their purpose until Kingdom come. Judgment Day will destroy the current system giving way to Paradise. Jesus tells us this world will pass and it shall be so.
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