Skip to comments.A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 12: Purgatory
Posted on 07/27/2007 3:53:18 PM PDT by NYer
Therein lies the rub.
I beg to differ. The phrase in this world or in the next is to emphasize the fact that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is absolutely unforgivable not to imply that there is a holding pattern for the not-quite-holy-enough to finally get their spiritual act together.
and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory
The early church started out preaching the shed blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. That's what Jesus talked about. At the last supper, I'm sure he didn't say, "...and if My body and blood aren't quite good enough, there's always purgatory..."
By the way, how does one get out of purgatory?
You misunderstood. For those in purgatory, their sins are forgiven. The Blood of Jesus is applied to them. But the temporal punishment for these sins that is left is what is being repaid there.
That's a load of crap. The Catholic and Orthodox churches can't even agree on who the real pope is. With all of their history and tradition they might have a clue. However, it just seems to cloud the argument. Besides, Jesus is the head of the church not some man and the Holy Spirit is given to every believer not a select few.
Then you don't understand salvation. If Jesus paid the penalty for our sins on the cross, how come there is some penalty left over for us to pay. If there is, then His blood was not sufficient to wash away our sins. If we take on His righteousness because of the cross, how come we still have to pay a penalty for our unrighteousness that He said he took on the cross? Purgatory cannot be argued from the scriptures without a great deal of manipulation.
Not from your version of the Scriptures.
In Jesus's time, the Old Testament canon used by most Jews, including those in Roman Palestine, was the Septuagint (so called because according to Jewish tradition it was prepared by 70 (septuaginta) scholars). This was a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, because by that time most Jews could not speak Hebrew fluently.
The Septuagint contained a number of books that were later dropped from the Jewish canon - 1st & 2nd Maccabees, part of the book of Esther, Ecclesiasticus, etc. By the time the committee that prepared the King James Bible got organized, these books had been dropped from the Jewish canon and thus did not get into the KJV.
But the original Catholic OT was taken from the Septuagint, so it did include those books.
C.S. Lewis may have explained it best. You have escaped from a train wreck with your life -- but your clothing is filthy, you're unshaven, you're feeling kinda bad. The Host of the Feast says, "Come, enter into joy." You say, "my garments aren't ready, I'm not fit to enter in." The Host says, "Still, come in." "I would rather be clean." "It may hurt." "Even so, Lord!"
“I give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and what you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Look at 1 Corinthians 3:1415: “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
You see, the Latinate word purgatory means a purgation or burning by fire. Paul in these verses refers to a purgation process whereby a man is saved even though his works are burned away. This is precisely what the Catholic Church teaches. A person at death who still has personal faults is prevented from entering into heaven because he is not completely purified. He must go through a period of purgation in order to be made clean, for nothing unclean will enter heaven (cf. Rev. 21:27).
A key word is “faults”. A fault can be as small as saying an unkind word about your neighbor to another even though the “unkind word” is true.
Moses is an example when he met God. Moses could not look upon God for all the brillance, brillance being perfection.
So, if purgatory exists, Hell must not (at least for mere mortals). If my sins can be punished by a stay in purgatory, why did GOD even create a Hell just for Satan and his fallen angels?
If my sins can be forgiven bya stay in purgatory, why did GOD send his only begotten Son to save us? Jesus would have better spent his time overseeing purgatory than dying on a cross.
Martin Luther took out these books because disproved his beliefs about three things and probably others.
Off the top of my head:
Faith ONLY — remember Martin Luther added the word, ONLY
Faith versus works — works are mentioned in some of these books, and disapproved of that theory.
Strong allusions to the Blessed Virgin Mary in the OLD TESTAMENT
I’m sure there are others. Anyone else?
Hell does exist. See the link for the Lesson on Hell below.
Another thing is Luthers five Solas.............you know what they are.
The Bible and the Catholic Church do not support them. Tradition is proved valid even in your KJV.
Doesnt do much to answer my question.
2 Corinthians 5:17 says:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
New creations don't have to be purgatorially spruced up to stand before God.
From Hebrews 10:
 My friends, the blood of Jesus gives us courage to enter the most holy place  by a new way that leads to life! And this way takes us through the curtain that is Christ himself.
We have a great high priest who is in charge of God's house. So let's come near God with pure hearts and a confidence that comes from having faith. Let's keep our hearts pure, our consciences free from evil, and our bodies washed with clean water.
There's no need for any postmortem spiritual purging. It was all done at the cross by the blood of Jesus.
C.S. Lewis misses the mark. You don't show up in heaven tattered and disheveled from a train wreak. No, the blood of Jesus makes it as though you'd never been in a train wreak at all.
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 1: Religion
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 2: The Bible and Tradition
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 3: God and the Holy Trinity
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 4: Prayer
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 5: Public Worship of God
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 6: Angels and Devils
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 7: Human Beings and the Purpose of Life
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 8: Sanctifying Grace
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 9: Heaven
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 10: Mortal and Venial Sin
Look at 2 Corinthians 5:17. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
If you get to Purgatory you know that you are going to heaven. It is a waiting place where souls wait to be moved to heaven. This is one of the reasons that Catholics pray for the dead.
Have you had a grandfather, grandmother, mother, father die?
If you said even one prayer for them, maybe you were the one who got them to heaven. The souls in Purgatory and do nothing for themselves, only wait and long for their days in heaven.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.