Skip to comments.A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 16: The Catholic Church is the Only True Church
Posted on 07/31/2007 4:19:37 PM PDT by NYer
|Name of church||Founder||When||Where|
|Episcopalian||King Henry VIII||1534||England|
|Adventist||William Miller||1831||New York|
|Christian Scientist||Mary Baker Eddy||1879||Massachusetts|
Yes. That would be the one!
You show signs of Donatism, a heresy condemned all the way back in 325 at the Council of Nicea. To wit: if a member of the Church isn’t “sinless,” then he is not a member. You seem to expect the same sinlessness that Donatus and his followers erroneously demanded.
But the Church is comprised of sinners and, indeed, exists as a means of cleansing them from their sins. Consider that, in Matthew 13:24-30, the Church is clearly shown by Christ Himself to be comprised of both the “wheat” and the “tares.” Do not take scandal because individual members are sometimes not sufficiently holy for your liking. Remember, it is as sinful to take scandal as it is to give scandal (Matthew 18:5-7).
I think you should have copied the rest of the statement which was “(Quoting the Bible to prove its own authenticity really proves nothing.)”
What your answer is composed of, is “I believe it.”
He says, “How do you know it’s true?”
You say, “It says it’s true.”
Presumably, if somebody wrote it as a lie, the author would also say, “This is true.”
The point you apparently are missing is this: If you read the Bible from cover to cover, it is an amazing story. Matter of fact, one could say it’s an unbelievable story, as some atheists do say. An unseen God creates the world (as opposed to what atheist “scientists” say), He created one man and one woman, who’s children are good and bad, and destroys the world when they get too bad, with a flood. He guided certain men and picked one insignificant tribe to call His People, and when they disobeyed Him, were sold into slavery, and rescued by a series of unbelievable miracles, and told them He was coming in person. Often, He sends beings with no physical bodies to interact with these men. He had his Only Begotten Son, born of a virgin (talk about unbelievable!), and came to suffer a horrible death, just to make up for the first man and woman eating an apple. And He picked 12 followers, one of which was a traitor, and founded what He called His Church and told them, He would be with them til the end of the world.
If I just fell off the turnip truck, I wouldn’t believe the story-it would be great fiction. Fortunately, for me, that’s not how it happened. When He was here, He founded a Church, and told everybody to listen to His Church. Not read His book, mind you, because there was no book. Matter of fact, there was no book for another 400 years, when it was assembled by the bishops of the Catholic Church, which Christ founded, in the year 399 AD, and was approved infallibly by the pope. The Catholic Church told all men of the world that that collection of books (the canon of the Bible) was the inerrant Word of God. That’s the only reason I have to believe the Bible is true. Because it was declared so by the Catholic Church.
What wiley was asking you is this: If you deny Christ founded the One True Church, the Catholic Church, why do you believe in the Bible, and why would you claim it is the Word of God, when the Bible is an official document of the Church you deny? Further, how can the Bible be a superior "...final authority of Christ's truth,..." when the only reason the Bible exists, is because the Catholic Church authored and declared it to be true by It's (the Church's)authority?-Glenn
As to the Historical time line, it is worse than childlike. I'll grab a few and let me know, if you prefer some others: 1. Episcopalian King Henry VIII 1534 England
Clearly the good Fr Cogan is American and a bit out of touch with the difference between ECUSA (erm TEC now) and the rest of the Anglican Communion (not to mention the RC doctrine of consantiguity at the time).
On a side note, please don't make me search out the RC Priest in the Barney costume or his "stand up" bishop to dispel the tit-for-tat that this line normally begins. The Magisterium of Rome is with His Holiness Benedict XVI. The Canon of St Vincent best describes the failed via-media of Anglicanism
Next, the martyrdom of St Alban and the councils of Arles (314), and Ariminum (359) are not fictional.
2. To put the Presbyterian as spawning from John Knox without any mention of Calvinist thought is as dumb as making Henry VIII some religious reformer starting a church.
3. Similarly, but perhaps more egregious due to martyrs, is to put the Baptists under John Smith with no mention of the Anabaptists.
4. John Wesley (an Anglican to his dieing breath), started a prayer group, not a church.
5. 7th day Adventists and Christian Scientists hardly qualify as "Protestant churches" as they were in no way seeking to reform the corrupt visible church.
**5. 7th day Adventists and Christian Scientists hardly qualify as “Protestant churches” as they were in no way seeking to reform the corrupt visible church.**
Agree with you here. Would not have put them on the list, myself.
I am staggered by the sheer volume of hard labor that would be necessary in order to stripmine all of the historical ignorance out of this assertion!
If I can roll my eyes back down to the front again, I will try to navigate my way to bed. How tiring willfull blindness is sometimes! It is amazing to me that, in the face of similar sentiments, Jesus is recorded as having said only once: “O faithless and perverse generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you?” (Matthew 17:17) Indeed, the forbearance of God is sometimes necessary to wade though some of these FR religion threads! Since I certainly have no such degree of forbearance, and my eyes have, in fact, rolled back to the front, I bid you a good night.
I once heard it put succinctly by a convert from the Nazarenes:
“I realized that Jesus came to found a Church, not publish a book.”
Unfortunately, the institution itself has become the Devil’s tool, and has been for the last millenium. I will pray for you. Early on in my Christian life I was a catechumen in the RCIA and was fortunately delivered by Evangelicals, who told me, yes, indeed, it was not necessary to pray to “our mother, the earth,” as I was instructed to do by a nun, backed up by a priest. The Roman church is not just full of sinners. It IS sin, with a few lonely Christians here and there trying to redeem it, for the sake of a missed latin ritual.
The church was made for man, not man for the church. He didn’t come to found a church, for the sake of founding a church. He came to save sinners, not preserve ritual.
My, my. How Pelagius is this view but it's not surprising.
He established a church. "The house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)
Let's read this in context.
These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on i the world, received up into glory.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the later times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron, Forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth...
Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:
"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).
Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.
To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:
It should be noted that in the bible, the word "rock" is not capitalized.
That would be our Lord, Jesus Christ.
"Whom do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father Who is in Heaven. And I say to thee: Thou art Peter; and upon this Rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:16-18)
So the word of God then was not inspired (by God)...
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
So Jesus DID NOT tell John to write this verse???
I got news for ya...If you don't have the written words of God, you don't have a Christian religion...
I don't what god you guys worship...Likely the same Allah that the muzlims worship...But many of us out here worship the God of the Bible...
The wisest among us will simply say, "There they go again."
Context. They did not pass down anything to Matthias, they were looking for men whom had been taught by Christ while He was here.
Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us. ....
Paul and Barnabas (Acts 13:2),
Where are the apostles at in this, looks like the HS's work to me. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Timothy, Silas, Sylvanus, Titus, Luke, Mark (Acts 17:14
????, nothing whatsoever to do with anyone receiving authority.
And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timothy abode there still.
2 Corinthians 1:19
Are you saying that just because Paul said that Silvanus and Timothy preached is proof that the apostles passed down their authority,
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timothy, was not yea and nay but in him was yea.
No time to look up the others, no sense in it anyway. I see why this lesson does not include what the Scripture actually says....be interesting to know how many take the time to look up what the Scripture really says, and just doesn't take it on faith that the Catholic Church is quoting sensibly.
Every pope since the first one, Constantine, has erred in doctrine...Biblical doctrine that is...But since God did not inspire the bible, you folks must have your own doctrine...
That's a keeper.
Yes, because She alone has the authority of Jesus to rule and to teach. To disobey the Catholic Church knowingly is just as much a sin as to disobey Jesus Christ or His Apostles.
Not even an out of context scripture for this, I see.
Constantine was a Pope? Odd, that's not what the history books tell us.