Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Plot against the ecumenical Patriarch foiled
Speroforum & Asia News ^ | August 1, 2007

Posted on 08/01/2007 7:42:59 AM PDT by NYer

A group of ex army officers, now retired, plotted to assassinate the ecumenical Patriarch: this is what has emerged from an investigation carried out by Istanbul’s public attorney’s office, and brought to light by a report in Aksam newspaper. The group known as the Association of National Forces was led by Bekir Ozturk: the hard drive of his computer revealed the entire project which also consisted of the assassination of the Armenian Patriarch Mesrob and of a Jewish businessman. 

This network of retired army officials are believed to be in contact with diverse well rooted nationalist groups on Turkish soil.  What is of even graver concern is the fact that arms in their possession seem to originate from Army deposits.  According to media and diplomatic sources this only further underlines the deep ties between nationalist activists and institutions linked to the State, thus forming the so-called “Shadow State”.

These worries are amplified by the recent entrance into parliament of the nationalist MHP party (which includes the grey wolves) in national elections, and their strengthening of the opposition, until now represented by the Kemalist CHP party. 

On the subject of the recent elections, observers have not failed to comment on Erdogan’s reshuffling of his government in favour of right wing candidates over liberals.  A fact that led to his landslide victory in the centre east of the country.  Some recall an interview he gave in 1998, when he was on the verge of forming his party, in which he said: “my aim is to unite my party base with the nationalists”, in short uniting political Islam with nationalism, legitimized by the journey towards European Union membership, with the country’s obvious economic development as the winning factor, which also brought election victory as proven by Kodan poll agency, the only one to have correctly gauged pre-election forecasts. 

In the area of religious policies, the Greek foreign minister Dora Bakojiannis has informed her EU colleagues in Brussels of the continuous difficulties faced by the Ecumenical Patriarch.  Following her meeting with the President of the European Peoples Party, Martens, a statement was released criticizing the Turkish Supreme Court ruling which contests the ecumenical nature of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.  Moreover, Interfax news agency reports that the Moscow Church, has taken advantage of the Greek foreign minister’s initiative to contest Constantinople’s primacy among the Orthodox, while sharing in the Patriarch of Constantinople’s difficulties.    In short, the word in Brussels is that Turkish Nationalists have found an unlikely ally in the ambitions of the Moscow Church.  The reaction of Fr. Dositheos, of the Ecumenical Patriarchate is calm and meaningful: “The Ecumenical Patriarchate was not born as a national Church, but as a point of reference for the ancient Christian world according to the apostolic and patristic tradition, it is universally accepted and has as its basic precept love in Christ”.


TOPICS: Current Events; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bartholomewi; islamofascists; jihad; patriarch; religionofpeace

1 posted on 08/01/2007 7:43:00 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: FormerLib; kawaii; kosta50

Ping!


2 posted on 08/01/2007 7:43:22 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The headline says that the target was the Ecumenical Patriarch, but the article says the target was the Armenian Patriarch.


3 posted on 08/01/2007 7:51:55 AM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

BTW, Patriarch Mesrob went to college in Memphis, TN and pursued some of his theological education at the Pontifical College in Rome.


4 posted on 08/01/2007 8:06:06 AM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
Actually it says that the Armenian Patriarch was also a target. Pretty easy to miss.

But this can't be true! We all know how Turkey has been held as an example of moderate Islam. Surely they wouldn't target Greek Orthodox and Armenians for nationalistic or religious (often one and the same to the Muhammedan) reasons. Not again, anyway.

5 posted on 08/01/2007 8:24:08 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

The article says ‘also’ the Armenian Patriarch.


6 posted on 08/01/2007 9:06:31 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Quote from the article: “Moreover, Interfax news agency reports that the Moscow Church, has taken advantage of the Greek foreign minister’s initiative to contest Constantinople’s primacy among the Orthodox, while sharing in the Patriarch of Constantinople’s difficulties.”

Orthodox against Orthodox? Who knew? Okay, we all knew.

“The reaction of Fr. Dositheos, of the Ecumenical Patriarchate is calm and meaningful: “The Ecumenical Patriarchate was not born as a national Church, but as a point of reference for the ancient Christian world according to the apostolic and patristic tradition, it is universally accepted and has as its basic precept love in Christ”.”

Um, actually the EP WAS founded as a national church - Byzantine (New Roman).


7 posted on 08/01/2007 2:30:35 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; FormerLib; kawaii; kosta50
This doesn’t boad well since there were ex army officers in on the plot.

I remember the recent court case on the official title of the Patriarch of Constantinople, but has there been other plots and intrigues against the PoC recently?

8 posted on 08/01/2007 4:37:15 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998; NYer; Honorary Serb; Kolokotronis
From what I understand (and that is limited), the patriarch/archbishop of Moscow was traditionally viewed as the seat of the Third Rome. He often took up the cause for the Orthodox during the times of the Ottoman Empire, because the Partiarch of Constantinople was in a very delicate situation.

So it wouldn’t surprise me that there was some tension between the two, as the recent upsurge in islamic politics in Turkey.

9 posted on 08/01/2007 4:44:47 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

I figured it wouldn’t be long before someone would show up to assault the Orthodox Christian Church.

I should have started a betting pool.

Some just love it when the body of Christ suffers.


10 posted on 08/01/2007 6:16:42 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Orthodox against Orthodox? Who knew? Okay, we all knew.

Actually, this is news to me. I was not aware of any in-fighting amongst the Orthodox.

11 posted on 08/01/2007 6:48:45 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: redgolum; FormerLib; kawaii; kosta50
I remember the recent court case on the official title of the Patriarch of Constantinople, but has there been other plots and intrigues against the PoC recently?

Yes ... that was the last news report I read; then again, I don't normally read the Orthodox news on a regular basis. What's intriguing, though, is that this posting comes from Speroforum which references Asia News. Asia News is out of Rome and closely follows the Vatican news service. No doubt the Holy Father is closely monitoring this situation.

12 posted on 08/01/2007 6:52:08 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer
To call it infighting is a gross exaggeration fueled by other sentiments.
13 posted on 08/01/2007 6:54:57 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I knew there was some infighting over the last handful of years:

EP vs. MP over Estonian parishes.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n12_v113/ai_18188260

MP vs. EP over leadership
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1871814/posts

Old Calendarists vs. EVERYBODY
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/anti-patristic-stance-old-calendarist-zealots.aspx

Greeks against...the whole world? (not quite)
http://ctlibrary.com/11857

Within these Churches there was a brief but bitter schism in the Bulgarian OC, a ridiculous four way nightmare schism in Ukraine, problems in Jerusalem, etc.

Nobody is perfect. We have our problems too.


14 posted on 08/01/2007 7:49:01 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

What you are referencing comes from the damage inflicted upon the Orthodox Church by the Communists. These will be healed in all good time, as ROCOR has already rejoined the Moscow Patriarchate and the Free Serbian Diocese rejoined the Serbian Orthodox Church in the 1990’s.

The Church will endure, indeed the gates of Hell will not stand against her.


15 posted on 08/02/2007 6:27:38 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

You wrote:

“What you are referencing comes from the damage inflicted upon the Orthodox Church by the Communists.”

No, I don’t think I mentioned any examples in that post that had anything to do with ROCOR actually.

“The Church will endure, indeed the gates of Hell will not stand against her.”

We agree on that.


16 posted on 08/02/2007 11:00:10 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
No, I don’t think I mentioned any examples in that post that had anything to do with ROCOR actually.

No, you did not mention ROCOR but what you were referencing comes from the damage inflicted upon the Orthodox Church by the Communists.

17 posted on 08/02/2007 11:36:06 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

You wrote:

“No, you did not mention ROCOR but what you were referencing comes from the damage inflicted upon the Orthodox Church by the Communists.”

The EP was never damaged by communists. Also, Estonians would want to be free of the MP in any case.


18 posted on 08/02/2007 1:27:13 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
The EP was never damaged by communists.

No, they've had their hands full dealing with the brutality of the Turks. However, the Russians were heavily damaged by the Communists and this affected their dealings with all of the external Churches.

Also, Estonians would want to be free of the MP in any case.

Had it not been from the brutalities inflicted upon them by the Communists, who knows how things might have worked out. If someone is going to attempt to predict how such a hypothetical would have played out, I would ask them to also predict Saturday's winning PowerBall numbers so that we can test their ability for prophecy.

19 posted on 08/02/2007 1:52:24 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: FormerLib

Hypotheticals about Estonia are easier than the PowerBall. Why? Because the Estonians never liked the Russians.

I’ll let you know about that PowerBall number later.

:)


20 posted on 08/02/2007 4:27:35 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Orthodox against Orthodox? Who knew? Okay, we all knew.

You sure you want to go there? After all theres Catholic Bishops who were found to be giving the eucharist to dogs... (so either the Vatican disagrees with that practice or there's some real big rifts in the Catholic church)

Granted we can't just dig up a single dead Bishop pop him in his vestiments and try him for Heresey like the Latins can...
21 posted on 08/03/2007 12:27:47 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“You sure you want to go there?”

Yes, I’m sure.

“After all theres Catholic Bishops who were found to be giving the eucharist to dogs...”

Please, do post. This should be edifying one way or the other.

“... (so either the Vatican disagrees with that practice or there’s some real big rifts in the Catholic church)”

Not at all. If there is a bishop doing that, then he is not approved by the Vatican in that action. That doesn’t mean there is a rift either. It means he’s insane. That’s the difference.

“Granted we can’t just dig up a single dead Bishop pop him in his vestiments and try him for Heresey like the Latins can...”

No, instead, puppet patriarchs of Constantinople called orthodox men heretics, and in the case of Maximus the Confessor cut out his tongue and cut off his hand so he could not longer speak or write.

Nice. As noted by the old Catholic Encyclopedia, “Thus St. Maximus died for orthodoxy and obedience to Rome.”

Also, I don’t see anything wrong with putting a dead man on trial for heresy (even if he was pope) in the Middle Ages. The symbolism was important.


22 posted on 08/03/2007 1:40:02 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Also, I don’t see anything wrong with putting a dead man on trial for heresy (even if he was pope) in the Middle Ages. The symbolism was important.

Trying him for heresy i might be able to get behind. digging him up and putting him in his vestiments so he could face his accusers not so much...
23 posted on 08/03/2007 1:59:51 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
No, instead, puppet patriarchs of Constantinople called orthodox men heretics, and in the case of Maximus the Confessor cut out his tongue and cut off his hand so he could not longer speak or write..

It's plain historically that the only problem Rome has with puppet patriarchs or patriarchates is which side the chips fall on with relation to Rome.
24 posted on 08/03/2007 2:00:56 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“Trying him for heresy i might be able to get behind. digging him up and putting him in his vestiments so he could face his accusers not so much...”

Well, we do sometimes “display” saints that way.

“It’s plain historically that the only problem Rome has with puppet patriarchs or patriarchates is which side the chips fall on with relation to Rome.”

It’s plain historically that the only problem Orthodoxy would have with some patriarchs or patriarchates would be their loyalty to Rome if they swam the Tiber.


25 posted on 08/03/2007 2:23:07 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
It’s plain historically that the only problem Orthodoxy would have with some patriarchs or patriarchates would be their loyalty to Rome if they swam the Tiber.

1. You're ignoring the fact that Rome has setup puppet patriarchs before. 2. you're trying to change the subject. 3. I think in general the Orthodox churches position is on the very limited doctrinal differences. There are certainly laity who equate Rome with Heresy on every point, but these same folks would (in many cases with valid points) accuses Pat. Bartholomew of heresy, as well as a few other recent EPs. Fortunatly neither one bishop nor one laity decide in Orthodoxy. 4. I'm not sure most orthodox could even point to the Tiber on the map...
26 posted on 08/03/2007 2:26:58 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Well, we do sometimes “display” saints that way.

On the Papal Throne? The famous chair that determines whether doctrine is correct or not?!
27 posted on 08/03/2007 2:28:22 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“1. You’re ignoring the fact that Rome has setup puppet patriarchs before.”

No, I am not ignoring anything.

“2. you’re trying to change the subject.”

I didn’t know there was a subject. Last time I checked the thread was about EP, assassination plots, MP, etc.

“3. I think in general the Orthodox churches position is on the very limited doctrinal differences. There are certainly laity who equate Rome with Heresy on every point, but these same folks would (in many cases with valid points) accuses Pat. Bartholomew of heresy, as well as a few other recent EPs. Fortunatly neither one bishop nor one laity decide in Orthodoxy.”

Valid points? SO the EP is a heretic? Do you really mean that?

“4. I’m not sure most orthodox could even point to the Tiber on the map...”

Thankfully, they don’t have to actually swim it.

“On the Papal Throne?”

No, better, in and under altars.

“The famous chair that determines whether doctrine is correct or not?!”

No, I think that chair belongs to Captain Kirk. Or is it Moses? (Matthew 23:2-3)


28 posted on 08/03/2007 4:07:36 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998; kosta50; FormerLib; Kolokotronis; kronos77
No, I think that chair belongs to Captain Kirk. Or is it Moses? (Matthew 23:2-3)

Well I don't recall Moses having "from the chair" rulings. One gets the impression that you jump in with noise on Orthodox threads but are unable to bak your positions up.
29 posted on 08/03/2007 5:45:41 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Valid points? SO the EP is a heretic? Do you really mean that?

you say that like it'd be the first time. you forget we don't have the pyramid-system of rule. the laity have called the bishops on heresy before in the Orthodox church and without giving birth to 20,000 schisms.
30 posted on 08/03/2007 5:46:52 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“Well I don’t recall Moses having “from the chair” rulings.”

I didn’t say he did. It was CALLED Moses’ seat. Did you even bother to read Matthew 23:2-3.

“One gets the impression that you jump in with noise on Orthodox threads but are unable to bak your positions up.”

I’m doing just fine here. By the way, Eucharist to the dogs story? Is that story coming any time soon or what?


31 posted on 08/03/2007 7:16:43 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“you say that like it’d be the first time. you forget we don’t have the pyramid-system of rule. the laity have called the bishops on heresy before in the Orthodox church and without giving birth to 20,000 schisms.”

Are you saying that the EP is a heretic? I asked you once before. Are you serious? You think the EP is a heretic? What EXACTLY is his heresy? Do tell!


32 posted on 08/03/2007 7:18:56 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: kawaii
One gets the impression that you jump in with noise on Orthodox threads...

That is clearly supported by the evidence. In the US, we call this pattern of behavior as "having a chip on one's shoulder." It's a sure sign of a feeling of inferiority.

33 posted on 08/03/2007 9:20:12 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

i’ll save the Eucharist to dogs link for some unrelated Catholic thread and then ping you to it to trash Catholics for no apparent reason...


34 posted on 08/03/2007 11:55:23 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Are you saying that the EP is a heretic? I asked you once before. Are you serious? You think the EP is a heretic? What EXACTLY is his heresy? Do tell!

I'm saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with laity holding such a view point if it is substantiated with facts. personally I don't think much in general about the EP save when the guy gets discontent with the 3 Orthodox Christians the Turks tolerate in Istanbul and starts making vast proclamations as if he were the Orthodox Pope.

Maybe it'd be better if he just jumped ship to Latins,.
35 posted on 08/03/2007 11:57:53 PM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“i’ll save the Eucharist to dogs link for some unrelated Catholic thread and then ping you to it to trash Catholics for no apparent reason...”

You’ll save it, or it doesn’t exist? Come on now, share!

“I’m saying there’s absolutely nothing wrong with laity holding such a view point if it is substantiated with facts.”

Such as? What EXACTLY is the EP’s heresy?

“personally I don’t think much in general about the EP save when the guy gets discontent with the 3 Orthodox Christians the Turks tolerate in Istanbul and starts making vast proclamations as if he were the Orthodox Pope.”

Okay, but what is his heresy?

“Maybe it’d be better if he just jumped ship to Latins,.”

Maybe. But what is his heresy?


36 posted on 08/04/2007 4:08:31 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

since i don’t really hold the view i’d be the wrong person to ask specifically. seems he gets caesero papism if nothing else.

as for the link i believe it was even posted on FR, but yeah i have it and yeah i’m waiting for a touchy feely Catholic thread to walk in and bash with it. you’re okay with that right?


37 posted on 08/04/2007 8:06:16 AM PDT by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: kawaii

You wrote:

“as for the link i believe it was even posted on FR, but yeah i have it and yeah i’m waiting for a touchy feely Catholic thread to walk in and bash with it. you’re okay with that right?”

Feel free to post whatever you like when you like. I was just hoping to see the article now. Can you post it now? How about sending it to me in a private message? Would that be okay?


38 posted on 08/04/2007 8:46:47 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson