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Thread III: A Catholic Homeschooling Father Reads Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Askaban
Gloria Romanorum ^
| 8/28/07
| Florentius
Posted on 08/28/2007 11:44:43 AM PDT by Antoninus
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1
posted on
08/28/2007 11:44:49 AM PDT
by
Antoninus
To: Claud; xsmommy; marshmallow; x_plus_one; discostu; redgolum; neb52; Informed about HP; maryz; ...
Pinging potentially interested parties.
Based on the flurry of recent articles, this debate seems to be heating up.
2
posted on
08/28/2007 11:50:49 AM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: Antoninus
You spelled “Azkaban” wrong. Should have taken my suggestion ...
3
posted on
08/28/2007 11:54:00 AM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Gravity! It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
To: Tax-chick
Sorry, neither my spell checker nor me is particularly good at catching made-up words. I’m not losing any sleep over it.
4
posted on
08/28/2007 11:57:11 AM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: Antoninus
It’s on the cover of the book in great big letters, and everything.
5
posted on
08/28/2007 11:58:55 AM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Gravity! It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
To: Antoninus
thanks for the ping! it seems i had missed the second thread, as it was buried amidst sundry pingage!
6
posted on
08/28/2007 12:01:27 PM PDT
by
xsmommy
To: Tax-chick
Its on the cover of the book in great big letters, and everything.
That matters little if it's not in great big letters on my brain.
Furthermore, if you search on Amazon, you'll find that in the German version of the book, the word is actually spelled "Askaban". So for today, Ich bin Deutsch.
7
posted on
08/28/2007 12:04:13 PM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: Antoninus
Interesting. That “she says godfather, so she must be a Christian” thing seemed like a stretch anyway. :)
8
posted on
08/28/2007 12:12:34 PM PDT
by
Claud
To: Antoninus
FWIW, I think that the content of the books is so obviously fiction that no one would be swayed to think, "Maybe I should pursue the Dark Arts".
It also bears notice, IMO, that on the subjects at Hogwarts which actually seem to be represented in our world (Astrology, Fortune Telling, etc.) the teacher is Professor Trelawney and she is a fake. Everyone knows it. Everyone laughs at her. Astrology?? Fortune Telling?? Please!! Who Believes that stuff?? Hermione storms out of her class because it's such a waste of time.
I think Rowling is telling us something.
9
posted on
08/28/2007 12:16:38 PM PDT
by
ClearCase_guy
(The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agammemnon dead.)
To: ClearCase_guy
I’ll also add the the central theme of the books is clearly The Importance of Love. Partnered with that is the concept that fearing death is foolish. Far more important is the care of your soul, and the notion that living in a worthy manner, such that death is not your enemy, is the wisest path. The Bible quotes which Rowling includes in the seventh book make these points quite clear.
10
posted on
08/28/2007 12:21:57 PM PDT
by
ClearCase_guy
(The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agammemnon dead.)
To: ClearCase_guy
FWIW, I think that the content of the books is so obviously fiction that no one would be swayed to think, "Maybe I should pursue the Dark Arts".
Sure, you or I might think that way. But would your standard 10 year old who's reading the books? I remember how "cool" Star Wars was when I was that age and wishing that it could be "real". Well, I'm betting that there is at least a subset of kids who feel the same way about the Potter series.
And whereas not too many kids will think they can actually become a Jedi, the idea of becoming a "witch" may not seem all that far-fetched. You don't need to do too many google searches before the links between the fictional world of Harry Potter and the real world of wicca start coming up. I surely would have found them at that age and I can't say for sure that they wouldn't have looked very tantalizing to me.
It also bears notice, IMO, that on the subjects at Hogwarts which actually seem to be represented in our world (Astrology, Fortune Telling, etc.) the teacher is Professor Trelawney and she is a fake.
You may be on to something there. I have refrained from commenting on this character because I want to see where Rowling takes her in future books. It should be noted that even where I am in the story now, (Book IV), Prof. Trelawney is assumed to have made at least one accurate prediction--when she was momentarilly possessed (or something).
11
posted on
08/28/2007 12:27:35 PM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: ClearCase_guy
The Bible quotes which Rowling includes in the seventh book make these points quite clear.
I've not gotten there, yet.... :-)
12
posted on
08/28/2007 12:28:26 PM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: Antoninus
Well, I won't give any spoilers. You are correct that young kids can have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. To me, Potter is like Dungeons and Dragons. A small number of fans can get their brains twisted by the subject matter, but personally don't see why it should be a big deal.
Also, according to Rowling, some folks are born Muggles, some are born magical. Magical kids demonstrate magic at a very young age without any knowledge or control. Hey, kids! If you're 11 years old and haven't accidentally levitated yet, I guess you were born a Muggle. Not much you can do about it.
13
posted on
08/28/2007 12:33:29 PM PDT
by
ClearCase_guy
(The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agammemnon dead.)
To: ClearCase_guy
I don't want to monopolize the thread, but additional thoughts:
In Rowling's universe, you can go to school and study and learn magic (if you're not a Muggle). But I think part of Trelawney's purpose is to demonstrate that trying to learn fortune-telling is a waste of time -- so don't bother trying this at home! I've said as much before.
But here is more: If you are born Magical, then sometimes Magic happens to you and around you, without your knowledge and control. Now, that's fantasy, and it may upset some people, but it's a basic tenet of Rowling's world. Now, having said that, I will say that while Trelawney is basically a fake, she's not a Muggle.
14
posted on
08/28/2007 12:41:25 PM PDT
by
ClearCase_guy
(The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agammemnon dead.)
To: ClearCase_guy
Well, I won't give any spoilers. You are correct that young kids can have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality. To me, Potter is like Dungeons and Dragons. A small number of fans can get their brains twisted by the subject matter, but personally don't see why it should be a big deal.
Well, I was a D&D guy as a young teen. I ended up as a fairly rabid Catholic despite all. That wasn't the case with everyone I played with, though.
In my opinion, we've got to be really careful what we give our kids to read between the ages of 10 and 14 in particular.
15
posted on
08/28/2007 12:41:29 PM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: ClearCase_guy; Antoninus
To me, Potter is like Dungeons and Dragons. A small number of fans can get their brains twisted by the subject matter, but personally don't see why it should be a big deal. Count me in as one of the brain-twisted. I think it's important to admit that the fantasy world is a lot more interesting to teens than the real world (and it offers them more power and authority as well...you can be a warrior king even if you never leave your parents basement ;).
And believe me, I would have been as strongly attracted to making Potter real as I was to making D&D real. It's extremely embarrassing to say it now, but I was a sensitive, dreamy kid, and I very vividly wanted to be the elf character I played. Came from a good family and loved science...who knows what would have happened to me if in my irreligious phase I started getting into wicca or something like that. It certainly wasn't out of the realm of possibility...I got temporarily sucked into studying out-of-body travel and things like that.
I haven't read Harry, so I can't comment on that aspect of it. But I definitely understand a predisposition in some kids to take such things to unhealthy levels.
16
posted on
08/28/2007 1:18:17 PM PDT
by
Claud
To: Claud
Hey, I was a dreamy kid too. I think I understand the situation pretty well. My daughter (12) is a big Potter fan. I've read the books along with her and we talk about the book a lot. We break it down into:
a fun story,
a set of ideas about human nature, and
the mechanics of story-telling.
I've steered conversations in such a way so that there's not much chance that she'll see anything as a secret key to a better, more enchanted world. But she gets a lot out of the series. Especially (I hope) the notion that good story-telling is hard, and that Rowling has put a lot of sweat into crafting the work.
The magical world isn't "there". It's built by an author who really needs to make an effort so that the story looks like it tells itself. I think Rowling is really quite good -- and also quite transparent (in a good way). From the standpoint of learning the art of narrative and exposition, Rowling is good stuff.
17
posted on
08/28/2007 1:26:29 PM PDT
by
ClearCase_guy
(The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agammemnon dead.)
To: ClearCase_guy
Well, sounds like you’re doing everything right! Would that every parent were so vigilant!
18
posted on
08/28/2007 1:32:18 PM PDT
by
Claud
To: ClearCase_guy
My daughter (12) is a big Potter fan. I've read the books along with her and we talk about the book a lot.
If you're kids are going to read the series, this is absolutely the best way for them to do it. Really, this is a great way for kids to read anything. I get almost as much enjoyment reading things with my kids as they do. Maybe more so, sometimes....
It's built by an author who really needs to make an effort so that the story looks like it tells itself. I think Rowling is really quite good -- and also quite transparent (in a good way).
I think her writing is adequate. You can almost tell when she plotted herself into a corner somewhere, though, and had to use a few semi-cheesy devices to extricate herself. The characters are what really makes everything go in her books. They are exceptionally well drawn and them main ones are all either amusing, sympathetic, or believably sinister.
Book IV actually made me laugh out loud for the first time in any of the books. That's usually a good sign.
19
posted on
08/28/2007 2:02:04 PM PDT
by
Antoninus
(The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
To: Antoninus
Need to go back and read the other threads.
My wife and I have been working very hard in the garden lately, and we talked about this.
20
posted on
08/28/2007 3:42:56 PM PDT
by
redgolum
("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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