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High Cost for New Calif. Cathedral (compared to a nuclear reactor)
AP ^ | September 2, 2007 | LOUISE CHU

Posted on 09/04/2007 7:35:21 AM PDT by NYer

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1 posted on 09/04/2007 7:35:28 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

You can take a tour of the new Cathedral here.

2 posted on 09/04/2007 7:36:54 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

This is hard to defend as a wise use of money.


3 posted on 09/04/2007 7:38:50 AM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: NYer
That building has nothing to do with God
4 posted on 09/04/2007 7:40:51 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: NYer
That building has nothing to do with God
5 posted on 09/04/2007 7:41:05 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: NYer
That building has nothing to do with God
6 posted on 09/04/2007 7:41:05 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: NYer

**Still, the diocese came under fire in January when it announced that the fundraising campaign for a new Catholic high school in Livermore would be temporarily halted so officials could focus on raising money for the cathedral’s completion.**

Were I a parent in the diocese I would be upset about the halting of plans to rebuild a high school too.


7 posted on 09/04/2007 7:42:33 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: al baby
An unconsidered view, repeated too many times.
8 posted on 09/04/2007 7:43:59 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

sorry


9 posted on 09/04/2007 7:45:39 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: wideawake

sorry


10 posted on 09/04/2007 7:45:43 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: wideawake

sorry


11 posted on 09/04/2007 7:46:02 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: wideawake

sorry


12 posted on 09/04/2007 7:46:08 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: wideawake

sorry


13 posted on 09/04/2007 7:46:09 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: wideawake

sorry


14 posted on 09/04/2007 7:46:09 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: wideawake

sorry


15 posted on 09/04/2007 7:46:14 AM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: ConservativeMind
I agree with you.

The price tag is almost inconceivable, and building a cathedral almost entirely of glass and wood seems like an invitation to mischief.

This works out to a cost of $360 per Catholic in the Oakland diocese.

16 posted on 09/04/2007 7:47:25 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: al baby

Well, at least you have a sense of humor to offset your research skills.


17 posted on 09/04/2007 7:48:04 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: al baby

Please stop it with the foolish postings.


18 posted on 09/04/2007 7:48:40 AM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: NYer

Seems excessive to me.


19 posted on 09/04/2007 7:49:06 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3rd Bn. 5th Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: NYer
"You can go to Europe and see Gothic cathedrals," he said. "You can come to Oakland and see this."

Thus explaining why European Cathedrals are unlocked and packed with tourists, and why this Cathedral will be locked tight outisde Mass time and no one will ever visit to simply admire and commune with God.

20 posted on 09/04/2007 7:51:23 AM PDT by Andrew Byler
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To: NYer
which lost its old cathedral to the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.

More than 1,000 sheets of glass will cloak the Douglas fir skeleton,

makes sense to me

21 posted on 09/04/2007 7:56:51 AM PDT by Revelation 911 (prov 30:33)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

Disgusting. Really putrid and awful design.

Compare this to the basilica that was just restored in Baltimore (I know, restoration different from new construction, but still):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Baltimore_basilica_nave.JPG/800px-Baltimore_basilica_nave.JPG


23 posted on 09/04/2007 8:02:09 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Revelation 911

LOL


24 posted on 09/04/2007 8:02:49 AM PDT by Claud
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To: sandyeggo
Thanks. I love church architecture. Would love to see how that ceiling works out in person. They made a fish shaped church in Kansas City a while ago. The windows were blue green, so that being inside it was a lot like being in a swimming pool.

As for the sniffs and snorts of disapproval from the iconoclasts, they remind me of the day I visited Mother Angelica's temple. As I went in a group peeked in and then left clucking their disapproval of the rich decoration. I went in and counted the diamonds on the monstrance. LOL

25 posted on 09/04/2007 8:12:36 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: NYer

You know, it looks like the compound from the movie, “Logan’s Run.

(The terribly version from the 70’s or 80’s.)


26 posted on 09/04/2007 8:16:51 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: NYer
The Oakland diocese has apparently been on a building binge -- check out the pictures at The Cafeteria Is Closed.

When I first saw them, all I could think was that when they close those parishes (ok, ok, I'm from Boston!), they should get a good price for the churches, since the condo conversions won't be as expensive as with a "real" church. This cathedral obviously doesn't have that advantage. On the other hand, earthquake damage should be a cinch to assess!

27 posted on 09/04/2007 8:24:47 AM PDT by maryz
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To: wideawake
The price tag is almost inconceivable, and building a cathedral almost entirely of glass and wood seems like an invitation to mischief.

Hopefully this will serve to discourage parishoners and priests alike from throwing stones :D

This works out to a cost of $360 per Catholic in the Oakland diocese.

You'd think Oakland would have learned a lesson from the LA Archdiocese (which is shelling out something like three times that amount to pay off the abuse settlement), and held onto the money "for a rainy day".

28 posted on 09/04/2007 8:29:41 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (As heard on the Amish Radio Network! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1675029/posts)
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To: Claud
Dear Claud,

I don’t particularly like what they’re building, but the price tag to build a cathedral seems quite reasonable.

The restoration in Baltimore that you point out cost about $32 million. That’s just a restoration, and the Baltimore basilica is perhaps half or less the size of what’s being built in Oakland.


sitetest

29 posted on 09/04/2007 8:32:12 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: NYer

OK, this new cathedral beats The Taj Mahoney.

Even if it looks like an exercise in catching-up with some Protestant
edifice in Garden Grove, CA that is seen every Sunday on TV.

I simply pray that it won’t become the favorite target-practice
range for all the disaffected youth (gang members) of Oakland.


30 posted on 09/04/2007 8:39:14 AM PDT by VOA
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To: NYer
The L.A. cathedral looks like a movie set for a scifi action flick starring Vin Diesel.
This....well, there is no accounting for taste.
31 posted on 09/04/2007 8:49:18 AM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: NYer
For those who need some relief, Creative Minority Report shows some other new church architecture: New Religious Life, New Architecture.
32 posted on 09/04/2007 9:14:05 AM PDT by maryz
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To: al baby

You can say that again.


33 posted on 09/04/2007 9:16:54 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum
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To: al baby

You can say that again.


34 posted on 09/04/2007 9:17:22 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum
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To: sitetest

For me it’s not even about price. Here in the Northeast, many of the nicest churches were built from the pennies of immigrants. So whatever Oakland or Baltimore wants to spend, God bless ‘em.

It’s more the brute ugliness of the thing that bugs me. That thing at $12.98 would have been a waste of money IMHO. :)

Granted, I have never studied architecture. But I am continually amazed at how out of touch some architects are with reality. I grew up my entire life hearing about Frank Lloyd Wright’s Fallingwater in Western PA...about how seamlessly it integrated into the environment. I went to see it and...wha????...it stuck out like a sore thumb. All chunky and blocky and painted this strangely Mediterranean color that didn’t fit the Allegheny region one darn bit. This when we got old farmhouses in PA that look like they grew right out of the soil, they are so natural.

And it’s the same with these churches all these modernist guys go ga-ga over nowadays. I hear them wax eloquent about the space, the light, yadda yadda, and I just don’t see nothin’ but ugly.


35 posted on 09/04/2007 9:18:13 AM PDT by Claud
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To: NYer

This smacks of idolatry to me.


36 posted on 09/04/2007 9:28:57 AM PDT by joebuck
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To: maryz

Grotesque! I recall a few years back, there was great flurry of activity among those bishops in anticipation of the USCCB issuing a new document “Domus Dei” which would restrict many of these contemporary designs. Mahony and the other ‘visionaries’ scurried to get their plans in place before passage of that document. Guess Oakland fell into that group as well.


37 posted on 09/04/2007 9:31:49 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
Did Domus Dei ever come out? The most I could find was an article on the discussions (illuminating in its way) by Paul Likoudis: Is Domus Dei D.O.A.? I would think if it had been issued, the text would have been one of the first things to show up in a search.
39 posted on 09/04/2007 9:56:23 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Claud
Dear Claud,

From the photos on-line, it’s tough for me to tell precisely how much I might like or dislike the new cathedral in Oakland. I’m not necessarily averse to architectural styles that aren’t more traditional.

I noted the issue of costs, as some folks seem concerned about all the money spent. In that you cited the beautiful restoration of the basilica in Baltimore, I thought I’d note that it, too, was pretty darned expensive - and just for a restoration!

I’ve only seen pictures, but I think that Fallingwater is a pleasant enough structure. I’ve visited a Wright house that’s located currently in northern Virginia. It’s sorta nice. Doesn’t really make me do handstands or anything. Hate to have to live in it. But wouldn’t mind visiting friends living in it.


sitetest

40 posted on 09/04/2007 9:59:50 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: NYer

Mind-boggling. How does this in any way, shape, or form glorify God? Looks more like the Tower of Babel without the exterior ramps.


41 posted on 09/04/2007 10:08:24 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: Claud
Claud,

You hit the nail on the head.

-A8

43 posted on 09/04/2007 10:57:43 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: NYer

Yuck.


44 posted on 09/04/2007 11:39:12 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Midnight Hallway Hockey scores: Cats 3-Humans 0)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

I would think God would be appalled by this blatant waste of the resources he has given to Christians, whether it be a Catholic church or Protestant...

45 posted on 09/04/2007 1:38:13 PM PDT by Iscool (OK, I'm Back...Now what were your other two wishes???)
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To: NYer

A lot of glass for Oakland. Hope it’s bullet proof.

It is better than what LA got for its money.


46 posted on 09/04/2007 3:19:53 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Claud
Frank Lloyd Wright’s Fallingwater in Western PA..

It had lousy engineering. They've spent millions to keep it from collapsing. Wright's work is also known for flat, leaky roofs.

47 posted on 09/04/2007 3:24:43 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: maryz
Did Domus Dei ever come out?

This may be it (apologies ... it is taking forever to download on dial-up). Looks like it fits the description.

Built of Living Stones: Art, Architecture, and Worship

48 posted on 09/04/2007 3:40:33 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

Thanks — no wonder I couldn’t find it searching “Domus Dei”! :)


49 posted on 09/04/2007 3:53:56 PM PDT by maryz
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To: PAR35
It had lousy engineering. They've spent millions to keep it from collapsing. Wright's work is also known for flat, leaky roofs.

Really? LOL!

Now I have another reason to dislike it. Sweet.

50 posted on 09/05/2007 5:36:24 AM PDT by Claud
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