Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Biblical Map to Jesus Christ's Return
Good News Magazine ^ | August 2007 | Jerold Aust

Posted on 09/09/2007 5:07:34 PM PDT by DouglasKC

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-71 next last
To: DouglasKC; Campion
They WERE shadows to him. But still, he said ARE. Why?

Because, unlike you and your fellow messianics, and unlike modern Jews, Paul could actually go to the temple and witness firsthand, actual, live biblical rituals straight from the law of Moses, animal sacrifices included. They “are” shadows to him because they still existed in that day and folks could still be trapped in them from recognizing Messiah.

They are no “shadows” today simply because no one is able to keep a Mosaic feast according to strict biblical commands. There are ersatz feasts, shadows of a type, that some folks are enamored with.

21 posted on 09/10/2007 9:17:33 PM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
Sorry to confuse you. By “traditions of men” I mean the traditions that are practiced today without any warrant from the Word of God. The fact remains that God’s has nowhere commanded modern day messianics to observe “feast days” apart from the temple and the priesthood and the land. They way you do things today are “traditions” since you have obviously ignored the “jots and tittles” of Moses’ commandments and replaced them with practices of convenience. (E.g., where does God in His Word allow uncircumcised gentiles into the Passover? Or perhaps your group does not celebrate the “passover” with gentiles present.)

You didn't address my points.

These are the hallmarks of what Paul was addressing in Colossians:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The Lord's holy days are NOT philosophy, but scriptural commands of the Lord. The only scripture Paul had was the "old" testament.

They are not "traditions of men", but holy days created by the God of the universe.

They are NOT "rudiments of the world", but holy objects of the divine.

So you're supposition is that Paul was telling Christians NOT to observe the Lord's holy days. He was telling them that observing them was "traditions of men", "rudiments of the world", "vain deceit".

Was his audience stupid??? Weren't you just saying that during Paul's day that the holy days were still a shadow of things to come? That they weren't YET faded away, but would be in 70 AD? If that's so then they weren't celebrating "ersatz" holy days, but Christ created, Christ ordained, scriptural holy days and not "traditions of men", "rudiments of the world", "vain deceit".

22 posted on 09/10/2007 9:25:02 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
Because, unlike you and your fellow messianics, and unlike modern Jews, Paul could actually go to the temple and witness firsthand, actual, live biblical rituals straight from the law of Moses, animal sacrifices included. They “are” shadows to him because they still existed in that day and folks could still be trapped in them from recognizing Messiah.

Where do you get this?? Instead of simply accepting that Paul celebrated biblical feasts as commanded in the only scripture he had you have to go through this elaborate scenario to project your beliefs back into his life.

They are no “shadows” today simply because no one is able to keep a Mosaic feast according to strict biblical commands. There are ersatz feasts, shadows of a type, that some folks are enamored with.

There are shadows. The sabbath is a weekly shadow of the creation:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The feast of trumpets is a shadow of the return of Christ to establish his kingdom:

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Read the article for information about the oth.er holy days

23 posted on 09/10/2007 9:42:15 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: topcat54

Amen. I agree with your response to DouglasKC. There is no need for us to observe the Jewish holy days, for three reasons:
1. God gave them to the people of Israel. He never commanded Gentiles to observe them, unless they converted to Judaism.
2. Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection. When Jesus died on the cross, was buried, and rose from the dead, He abolished the ceremonial law (but not the moral law, which includes the Ten Commandments). [I realize that some of my fellow dispensationalists, and even some non-dispensationalists, will critize me for saying, “but not the moral law.”]
3. The destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. There is no physical Temple today because of that. Since there is no physical Temple today, there is no need to observe the Jewish holy days. We are under the New Covenant, which Christ ushered in at Calvary. Under the New Covenant, the church is the temple of God (I Cor. 3:16,17; II Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:19-22; I Peter 2:5).

Paul said that the Jewish holy days “are shadows of things to come” (Col. 2:17). Whether DouglasKC realizes it or not, those “things to come” have come.


24 posted on 09/10/2007 9:48:52 PM PDT by kevinw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: kevinw; topcat54
Paul said that the Jewish holy days “are shadows of things to come” (Col. 2:17). Whether DouglasKC realizes it or not, those “things to come” have come.

Let's look at it again:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Now you are interpreting this to say that Paul thinks that the feast days ARE shadows and thus SHOULD NOT be observed by Christians BECAUSE Christ is the reality that cast the shadows so there's no need for shadows...correct?

If this is not correct, what was casting the shadow?

25 posted on 09/10/2007 9:59:21 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: whipitgood; Diego1618; kerryusama04; XeniaSt; AnnaZ; Ping-Pong
    Hosted for free by: Pixilive

You have been pinged because this may be of interest
to the Sabbatarian/Messianic community. Freepmail
DouglasKC if you want on or off this list.

Add Me Please    Remove Me Please

I've started a ping list for sabbatarians, messianics. Let me know if you want on or off....thanks!

26 posted on 09/10/2007 11:06:01 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kevinw; DouglasKC; Diego1618
1. God gave them to the people of Israel. He never commanded Gentiles to observe them, unless they converted to Judaism.

Yes, He did give them to "Israel" and where are the "people of Israel" today? They are NOT in the tiny Nation of Israel. Those are two separate entites. God wants His children to observe them and they do not have to convert to Judaism.

Paul said that the Jewish holy days “are shadows of things to come” (Col. 2:17). Whether DouglasKC realizes it or not, those “things to come” have come

Some of us will be in for a big surprise, won't we? We shall see........

.......Ping

27 posted on 09/11/2007 4:53:27 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

Thank you for the ping and please add me to your list.

........Ping-Pong


28 posted on 09/11/2007 4:54:54 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
You didn't address my points.

I did address your point, which was you ignored in immediate context of Col. 2:16,17.

Deal with that before you back up to verse 8. Or deal with them both together.

But to be complete, the greek word for philosophy does not preclude the view of the Jewish traditions and the Mosaic ceremonial law. If those traditions were keeping people in bondage, especially they were being used to oppress gentiles, then they constitute a "philosophy" or vain tradition of men.

I don't normally quote lexicons, but this may be helpful to you:

filosofiva - love of wisdom
used either of zeal for or skill in any art or science, any branch of knowledge. Used once in the NT of the theology, or rather theosophy, of certain Jewish Christian ascetics, which busied itself with refined and speculative enquiries into the nature and classes of angels, into the ritual of the Mosaic law and the regulations of Jewish tradition respecting practical life (Strong's Number 5385; The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon)
The entire tenor of the passage is Jewish, not pagan, e.g., the comparison of circumcision to baptism, the phrase “handwriting of requirements” (Mosaic code), “Let no one cheat you of your reward” (which is exactly what the Judaizers were doing to the gentiles).

So the context does confirm the reading that Paul was very much concerned about gentile belivers being overcome by Jewish traditions, the traditions of men (Just like today, it was very hard even for Jews to tell where the law stopped and the traditions started, nevermind the gentiles, who often got unknowingly caught up in the illusionary piousness of “lawkeeping”)

It is death to place oneself "under the law".

29 posted on 09/11/2007 5:35:37 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
BTW, I do not want this important point to get lost in your obfuscation.

I wrote:

They way you do things today are “traditions” since you have obviously ignored the “jots and tittles” of Moses’ commandments and replaced them with practices of convenience. (E.g., where does God in His Word allow uncircumcised gentiles into the Passover? Or perhaps your group does not celebrate the “passover” with gentiles present.)
Modern messianics, like modern unbelieving Jews, so not follow the “jots and tittles” of the Mosaic code in any way, shape, or form. They follow the vague shadows of that code according to their traditions of men filtered through 2000 years of history. They have radically modified that code to suit the fact that the Jewish temple and priesthood no longer exist and the undeniable circumstances surrounding that fact.

Messianism is the philosophy that is out to step with the Scriptures and the facts of history for the last 2000 years. Jesus Christ has come, and He has established His new covenant with His people, Jews and gentiles together. He has made us into one people, the true sons of Abraham. We are the royal priesthood and holy nation. He has bonded us together with a common spiritual genetics that has nothing to do with are our parents or grandparents. He has freed us from the very code that even the apostle Peter admitted was a yoke-burden that Jews themselves were unable to keep (Acts 15:10). (The same Peter, BTW, who ate and lived like a gentile until the Judaizers appeared in Galatia, and was opposed by Paul for his hypocrisy.)

So the next time you quote Matt. 5:18 against those who see no place for the Mosaic ceremonies in the new covenant, just look carefully at the “jots and tittles” and think about whether you are truly keeping “the least of these commandments” according to God’s Holy revelation or according to your own imagination.

30 posted on 09/11/2007 5:54:08 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
BTW, I do not want this important point to get lost in your obfuscation. I wrote: They way you do things today are “traditions” since you have obviously ignored the “jots and tittles” of Moses’ commandments and replaced them with practies of convenience. (E.g., where does God in His Word allow uncircumcised gentiles into the Passover? Or perhaps your group does not celebrate the “passover” with gentiles present.)

I believe the new testament is inspired scripture. There is an unequivocal Godly action and discussion throughout NT scripture that under the new covenant circumcision is not a requirement to enter into the Israel of God.

Modern messianics, like modern unbelieving Jews, so not follow the “jots and tittles” of the Mosaic code in any way, shape, or form. They follow the vague shadows of that code according to their traditions of men filtered through 2000 years of history. They have radically modified that code to suit the fact that the Jewish temple and priesthood no longer exist and the undeniable circumstances surrounding that fact.

Poppycock. I would say that most messianic groups are well acquainted with the book of Hebrews and know exactly what has been changed in the law and follow that along with the biblical examples in the rest of the NT. Hebrews is pretty clear and it mentions nothing about Christians NOT observing the holy days of Christ, our Lord. Indeed Hebrews specifically says that sabbath keeping (one of the Lord's feasts) is still to be done by Christians:

Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Messianism is the philosophy that is out to step with the Scriptures and the facts of history for the last 2000 years. Jesus Christ has come, and He has established His new covenant with His people, Jews and gentiles together. He has made us into one people, the true sons of Abraham.

I don't consider myself a messianic jew, but either a natural Israelite or gentile baptized into the body of Christ.

We are the royal priesthood and holy nation. He has bonded us together with a common spiritual genetics that has nothing to do with are our parents or grandparents. He has freed us from the very code that even the apostle Peter admitted was a yoke-burden that Jews themselves were unable to keep (Acts 15:10). (The same Peter, BTW, who ate and lived like a gentile until the Judaizers appeared in Galatia, and was opposed by Paul for his hypocrisy.)

And this is where your confusion lies. You believe obedience to the Lord is forbidden IF the appearance is that the "law" is being kept. You cannot fathom that the indwelling spirit of Christ should lead one to let that spirit LIVE our lives. Christ created HIS own holy days! They ARE his. They were created for a reason that he knows well. He WILL lead us to observe them IF we yield to his will because they benefit us, his creation.

You also tend to confuse non-scriptural tenets and traditions of the Jewish religion with scriptural injunctions. For example, you just said:

"He has freed us from the very code that even the apostle Peter admitted was a yoke-burden that Jews themselves were unable to keep (Acts 15:10). (The same Peter, BTW, who ate and lived like a gentile until the Judaizers appeared in Galatia, and was opposed by Paul for his hypocrisy.)"

Clearly you don't understand that there is nothing in scripture that says Peter couldn't eat and associate with gentiles. But it WAS (and still is in some forms of Judaism) that the very act of being in a gentile house would make you unclean. That's NOT in scripture and that's why Peter was chastised.

31 posted on 09/11/2007 7:03:21 AM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
I did address your point, which was you ignored in immediate context of Col. 2:16,17.

How about taking a shot at post 25? I'm still confused about what you believe this is saying.

32 posted on 09/11/2007 7:06:22 AM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
Very interesting --- thanks for the post. Clearly the Feasts of Trumpets, Yom Kippur, and Tabernacles have yet to see their NT fulfillment.

Interestingly enough Yom Kippur is the only one of the three left that really requires the presence of the High Priest and the Temple ---both of which are on the horizon.

33 posted on 09/11/2007 7:23:59 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
I believe the new testament is inspired scripture.

And where in the NT are you commanded by God to set aside Exodus 12:43-45 and eat the “passover” with uncircumcised gentiles?

Poppycock. I would say that most messianic groups are well acquainted with the book of Hebrews and know exactly what has been changed in the law and follow that along with the biblical examples in the rest of the NT.

Obviously they do not if they are still following practices defined by the Levitical priesthood which were only appropriate while the temple was standing in Jerusalem. That system decayed and passed away. You cannot separate the Levitical feasts from the sacrificial system, since there is absolutely no warrant in the Word to do so. That is a late tradition of men, but is denied by the substance of Hebrews.

I don't consider myself a messianic jew, but either a natural Israelite or gentile baptized into the body of Christ.

I do not know what that means.

Clearly you don't understand that there is nothing in scripture that says Peter couldn't eat and associate with gentiles. But it WAS (and still is in some forms of Judaism) that the very act of being in a gentile house would make you unclean. That's NOT in scripture and that's why Peter was chastised.

Actually, you are wrong. Paul says that Peter was living “as a gentile”, not merely with gentiles.

“14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?” (Gal. 2)

Peter, at least when he was in Galatia, recognized his freedom in Christ to eat or not eat “kosher” as the circumstances dictated (based on his experience in Acts 10). He could live like a gentile if he wished. He was no longer bound by the ceremonial requirements of the Mosaic code. Notice that Paul never chastised Peter for eating gentile food. He opposed him for his hypocrisy when he withdrew from the gentiles at the appearance of the Judaizers from Jerusalem.

34 posted on 09/11/2007 8:21:20 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
How about taking a shot at post 25? I'm still confused about what you believe this is saying.

What is confusing? Paul is speaking metaphorically, and is using language similar to what we see in places like Heb. 8:5 and 10:1. Just as the earthly temple was a “copy or shadow” ( skiav) of the heavenly, so too the ceremonials were a mere shadow of Christ. Once the true temple of God appeared, then the earthly temple was destroyed by God. The “shadow” of the temple no longer exists (it was obliterated by God in AD70) because the substance (Christ Himself, John 2:16, and the Church; 1 Cor. 3:16,17; 2 Cor. 6:16) has appeared. The same is true of the “shadow” of the ceremonials. The substance, Christ, has appeared so the shadow no longer exists, having been overcome by the glory of His appearing. The copy cannot exist in the presence of the reality.

35 posted on 09/11/2007 8:35:53 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
And where in the NT are you commanded by God to set aside Exodus 12:43-45 and eat the “passover” with uncircumcised gentiles?

\ God gave his holy spirit to uncircumcised gentiles. Paul taught:

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

So where do you read that we are to forget and ignore the holy days of our Lord?

You cannot separate the Levitical feasts from the sacrificial system, since there is absolutely no warrant in the Word to do so. That is a late tradition of men, but is denied by the substance of Hebrews.

Paul had no problem with it. He recognized that a change in the priesthood didn't mean that you tossed out the whole of the bible. In Hebrews, it was SPELLED out what was changed. The book was written to let early Christians KNOW what the new covenant did. And the fact that it's documented that Paul kept the feasts is evidence enough.

I don't consider myself a messianic jew, but either a natural Israelite or gentile baptized into the body of Christ. I do not know what that means.

I don't consider myself a Jewish person who believes that Christ is the messiah. I'm either a gentile or a natural descendant of Israel who has been baptized into the Israel of God, into the body of Christ.

Actually, you are wrong. Paul says that Peter was living “as a gentile”, not merely with gentiles. “14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?” (Gal. 2)

There was a VAST difference between the ways a Pharasitical Jew lived and the way a gentile lived even without considering food to be eaten. They had, and still have, rules about utensils, kitchens, food preparation, how animals are killed, etc. Kosher rules developed by the Jewish religion covers MUCH more that what is actually in scripture.

Peter, at least when he was in Galatia, recognized his freedom in Christ to eat or not eat “kosher” as the circumstances dictated (based on his experience in Acts 10). He could live like a gentile if he wished. He was no longer bound by the ceremonial requirements of the Mosaic code. Notice that Paul never chastised Peter for eating gentile food.

Again you're mixing up scriptural with non-scriptural. Peter NEVER ate animal flesh that scripture defined as unclean. But the very act of eating a clean animal prepared by a gentile in a gentile home would have been abhorrent to an observant Jew.

36 posted on 09/11/2007 8:57:12 AM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
What is confusing? Paul is speaking metaphorically, and is using language similar to what we see in places like Heb. 8:5 and 10:1. Just as the earthly temple was a “copy or shadow” ( skiav) of the heavenly, so too the ceremonials were a mere shadow of Christ. Once the true temple of God appeared, then the earthly temple was destroyed by God. The “shadow” of the temple no longer exists (it was obliterated by God in AD70) because the substance (Christ Himself, John 2:16, and the Church; 1 Cor. 3:16,17; 2 Cor. 6:16) has appeared. The same is true of the “shadow” of the ceremonials.

The substance, Christ, has appeared so the shadow no longer exists, having been overcome by the glory of His appearing. The copy cannot exist in the presence of the reality.

You're contradicting yourself. So back to "ARE". Christ appeared, was crucified and resurrected at least a decade before Paul wrote Colossians. According to you, the copy (the holy days) NO longer existed. Yet:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ

Paul doesn't buy your explanation.

37 posted on 09/11/2007 9:01:45 AM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

Bookmarked for later review.


38 posted on 09/11/2007 9:11:56 AM PDT by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
God gave his holy spirit to uncircumcised gentiles.

So?? Where did God say that gentiles who are circumcised only in their heart may attend to the “passover”? I do not read that anywhere in the Mosaic code. This seems to be another tradition of men based purely on circumstances.

So where do you read that we are to forget and ignore the holy days of our Lord?

We do not ignore them. We see them as fulfilled perfectly and obediently in Christ. When we celebrate Christ’s work we celebrate all to which the Mosaic feasts pointed.

And we do not pretend that keeping such ersatz feast days as are common today in any way fulfills the command of God. Such pretentiousness has no warrant in Scripture. It is a vain sort of thing based on zeal without knowledge.

So where do you read that we are to forget and ignore the holy days of our Lord?

You seem to be missing the purely spiritual nature of 1 Cor. 5:7,8. First of all, it says that Christ is our Passover. He is the one to Whom the Mosaic Passover pointed. The Mosaic Passover was the shadow and Christ is the substance.

Second, it tells us how to keep this “feast” (i.e., Christ our Passover), with the “unleavened bread of sincerity and truth”. Paul is not speaking at all about the old ceremonies with animal sacrifices and physically unleavened bread. He is speaking spiritually of how we are to approach the throne of Christ. He is our Passover. We do not need to keep the “passover” of men.

We see similar spiritual language by Paul in places like Romans 12:1, “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.”

Peter NEVER ate animal flesh that scripture defined as unclean.

That’s exactly what Paul said he did. You can disagree with Paul if you wish, but his words could not be plainer. Why don’t you deal with the actual text and explain it to us.

39 posted on 09/11/2007 11:25:39 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
You're contradicting yourself.

Not at all. I’m merely disagreeing with your flawed interpretation of the text at hand. It is quite plain, and try as you might to explain away Paul’s wring in our past about things in his present saying “are”, the substance of Col 2:17,18 stands. Those who follow the Mosaic code and trouble other with the same are living “under the law” and are self-condemned.

Paul lived in a world that we do not live in today. Paul lived in a world caught between two covenants. The old was decayed and fading away, and the new was being established in the Church by the blood of Christ.

Just as Israel wandered in the wilderness as the generation who sinned against God at Sinai were purged, so the generation of Jesus’ contemporary Jews in Judea were being purged. The righteous became Christians and entered into the Body adopting practices consistent with a new nation made up of both Jews and gentiles. The unrighteous were judged for their treatment of the son of the Landowner.

The old covenant system was finally and forever destroyed in AD70 with the destruction of the temple. Those who wish to live by old covenant ways are simply living in the past.

40 posted on 09/11/2007 11:36:15 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-71 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson