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To: topcat54
BTW, I do not want this important point to get lost in your obfuscation. I wrote: They way you do things today are “traditions” since you have obviously ignored the “jots and tittles” of Moses’ commandments and replaced them with practies of convenience. (E.g., where does God in His Word allow uncircumcised gentiles into the Passover? Or perhaps your group does not celebrate the “passover” with gentiles present.)

I believe the new testament is inspired scripture. There is an unequivocal Godly action and discussion throughout NT scripture that under the new covenant circumcision is not a requirement to enter into the Israel of God.

Modern messianics, like modern unbelieving Jews, so not follow the “jots and tittles” of the Mosaic code in any way, shape, or form. They follow the vague shadows of that code according to their traditions of men filtered through 2000 years of history. They have radically modified that code to suit the fact that the Jewish temple and priesthood no longer exist and the undeniable circumstances surrounding that fact.

Poppycock. I would say that most messianic groups are well acquainted with the book of Hebrews and know exactly what has been changed in the law and follow that along with the biblical examples in the rest of the NT. Hebrews is pretty clear and it mentions nothing about Christians NOT observing the holy days of Christ, our Lord. Indeed Hebrews specifically says that sabbath keeping (one of the Lord's feasts) is still to be done by Christians:

Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Messianism is the philosophy that is out to step with the Scriptures and the facts of history for the last 2000 years. Jesus Christ has come, and He has established His new covenant with His people, Jews and gentiles together. He has made us into one people, the true sons of Abraham.

I don't consider myself a messianic jew, but either a natural Israelite or gentile baptized into the body of Christ.

We are the royal priesthood and holy nation. He has bonded us together with a common spiritual genetics that has nothing to do with are our parents or grandparents. He has freed us from the very code that even the apostle Peter admitted was a yoke-burden that Jews themselves were unable to keep (Acts 15:10). (The same Peter, BTW, who ate and lived like a gentile until the Judaizers appeared in Galatia, and was opposed by Paul for his hypocrisy.)

And this is where your confusion lies. You believe obedience to the Lord is forbidden IF the appearance is that the "law" is being kept. You cannot fathom that the indwelling spirit of Christ should lead one to let that spirit LIVE our lives. Christ created HIS own holy days! They ARE his. They were created for a reason that he knows well. He WILL lead us to observe them IF we yield to his will because they benefit us, his creation.

You also tend to confuse non-scriptural tenets and traditions of the Jewish religion with scriptural injunctions. For example, you just said:

"He has freed us from the very code that even the apostle Peter admitted was a yoke-burden that Jews themselves were unable to keep (Acts 15:10). (The same Peter, BTW, who ate and lived like a gentile until the Judaizers appeared in Galatia, and was opposed by Paul for his hypocrisy.)"

Clearly you don't understand that there is nothing in scripture that says Peter couldn't eat and associate with gentiles. But it WAS (and still is in some forms of Judaism) that the very act of being in a gentile house would make you unclean. That's NOT in scripture and that's why Peter was chastised.

31 posted on 09/11/2007 7:03:21 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; Campion; kevinw
I believe the new testament is inspired scripture.

And where in the NT are you commanded by God to set aside Exodus 12:43-45 and eat the “passover” with uncircumcised gentiles?

Poppycock. I would say that most messianic groups are well acquainted with the book of Hebrews and know exactly what has been changed in the law and follow that along with the biblical examples in the rest of the NT.

Obviously they do not if they are still following practices defined by the Levitical priesthood which were only appropriate while the temple was standing in Jerusalem. That system decayed and passed away. You cannot separate the Levitical feasts from the sacrificial system, since there is absolutely no warrant in the Word to do so. That is a late tradition of men, but is denied by the substance of Hebrews.

I don't consider myself a messianic jew, but either a natural Israelite or gentile baptized into the body of Christ.

I do not know what that means.

Clearly you don't understand that there is nothing in scripture that says Peter couldn't eat and associate with gentiles. But it WAS (and still is in some forms of Judaism) that the very act of being in a gentile house would make you unclean. That's NOT in scripture and that's why Peter was chastised.

Actually, you are wrong. Paul says that Peter was living “as a gentile”, not merely with gentiles.

“14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?” (Gal. 2)

Peter, at least when he was in Galatia, recognized his freedom in Christ to eat or not eat “kosher” as the circumstances dictated (based on his experience in Acts 10). He could live like a gentile if he wished. He was no longer bound by the ceremonial requirements of the Mosaic code. Notice that Paul never chastised Peter for eating gentile food. He opposed him for his hypocrisy when he withdrew from the gentiles at the appearance of the Judaizers from Jerusalem.

34 posted on 09/11/2007 8:21:20 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
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