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Padre Pio and the Mother Co-redemptrix(CATHOLIC CAUCUS)
http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1128&Itemid=40 ^ | Sept 8,2007 | Fr. Stefano Maria Manelli, F.I.

Posted on 09/10/2007 6:18:13 AM PDT by stfassisi

Padre Pio and the Mother Co-redemptrix By Fr. Stefano Maria Manelli, F.I. Saturday, 08 September 2007 It has been written, and rightly so, that "if there is an aspect of the mystery of Mary especially fitting to the life and work of Padre Pio of Pietrelcina, it is certainly the coredemptive aspect of the person and mission of the Immaculate in God’s salvific plan of love" (1).

The mystery of Mary Coredemptrix is present in the life and writings of St. Pio of Pietrelcina at the highest levels of mystical experience which he lived out in body and soul, and of the theologia cordis transmitted by him to his spiritual children in the language of that wisdom transcending by far a language limited to the solely notional and conceptual (2).

St. Pio of Pietrelcina in the first place lived the mystery of Marian Coredemption in his exceptional mystical experience of the Passion of Christ Crucified, of which he bore the living and bleeding stigmata in his body for fifty entire years, from 1918 to 1968. He became an "imprinted reproduction of the wounds of the Lord," according to the happy expression of Pope Paul VI (3). In this exceptional mystical experience he co-immolated himself with Christ, assimilating himself in a most extensive and profound manner to the Mother Coredemptrix who immolates herself with the Son on the Cross in order to bring to pass the universal Redemption (4). It has been written that, "Padre Pio penetrated the sorrows of Mary and participated in them, mirrored them, relived them; as his soul had been a partaker in the sorrows of the Passion, so too he had the gift of participating in the sorrows of Mary" (5).

Into this area of mystical experience, however, the inexperienced are not allowed to enter nor are they in a position to speak of it. St. Bonaventure, the "Seraphic Doctor," teaches expressly that, with regard to the mystical, "those who are not experts and who do not wish to become experienced, must absolutely keep silent" (6).

What is more within the range of our intelligence, then, is the coredemptive aspect of St. Pio of Pietrelcina’s active ministry. He exercised the ministry of the confessional for more than fifty years, administering the Sacrament of Reconciliation to such a vast family of penitents that Pope Paul VI called it, in yet another happy expression, a "worldwide clientele" (7). But to administer the Sacrament of forgiveness and of reconciliation between mankind and God means to operate on the same wavelength, so to speak, as Marian Coredemption. In fact, Mary Most Holy, being united with the Redeemer—"under Him and with Him," as Vatican II teaches (LG 56)—reconciled humanity with God through the sacrificial offering consummated on Calvary; and after Calvary she continues unceasingly to reconcile man to God with her Mediation and Distribution of all the graces of Redemption. Consequently, she is proclaimed the Mother of universal reconciliation.

The spiritual director of St. Pio of Pietrelcina, Fr. Benedict of San Marco, once told St. Pio in a letter of spiritual direction that his particular vocation was a "vocation to coredeem" by means of the daily trials, battles, sufferings, and toils coming from the exercise of his ministry. And in reference particularly to his work as a confessor, it has been accurately observed that "in the ministry of reconciliation, Padre Pio prolonged or, in a certain sense, actualized the fruitfulness of grace of Marian Coredemption which 'restores the supernatural life in souls' (LG 61). In fact, the divine grace acquired by the Redeemer and the Coredemptrix in the 'effecting' of the Redemption is here distributed and applied to every soul in need by means of the sacramental absolution given by Padre Pio to his penitents" (8).

To understand St. Pio’s "vocation to coredeem" better, one must also consult his writings, of primary value where he speaks of the Coredemptrix in the salvific mystery. And one recognizes immediately that his discourse is not theoretical or notional, but reflects instead the most profound and moving characteristics of the theologia cordis, of theology lived at the level of ascetical and mystical experience , one which gives a knowledge of the mystery characteristically sapiential and experiential, as St. Bonaventure explains (9).

The pages in which St. Pio speaks of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s sorrows are exceedingly numerous (10). In these pages the figure of Our Lady of Sorrows is present in her immense coredemptive suffering, and she is seen walking along the way to Calvary "immediately behind Jesus... burdened with her own cross" (11). A cross for Jesus, a cross for Mary. It is of value here to recall the insight of Arnold of Chartres who speaks of a double altar on Calvary: "one in the Heart of Mary, the other in the Body of Christ. Christ sacrificed His flesh, Mary her soul" (12). And St. Pio recommends to all "to keep always right behind this Blessed Mother, to walk always close to her, since there is no other road which leads to life, except the one trod by our Mother" (13).

When St. Pio wants to describe the sufferings of Our Lady of Sorrows, he finds a very valid point of reference in his very own suffering, be it moral or physical, a suffering so terrible as to dry up every tear and to petrify him in sorrow (14). For this reason in contemplating Our Lady’s sorrows he can expand his soul and say: "Yes, now I understand, oh Jesus, why in admiring You Your Mother did not weep beneath the Cross" (15), because "by the excess of sorrow, she remained petrified before her crucified Son" (16); and on another page of sublime contemplation touching his own measureless sorrows and those of Our Lady, he exclaims movingly: "Now I seem to be penetrating what was the martyrdom of our most beloved Mother (...). Oh, if all people would but penetrate this martyrdom! Who could succeed in suffering with this, yes, our dear Coredemptrix? Who would refuse her the good title of Queen of Martyrs?" (17)

The words "dear Coredemptrix" express most exactly soteriological value of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s maternal mission in the tones of a pure theologia cordis. She coredeemed humanity by offering the divine Victim, her Son Jesus, in the bloody immolation of the Cross, and co-immolating herself with Him in order to "restore supernatural life to souls" (LG 61), became in this way our "Mother in the order of grace" (LG 1.c.) (18). She "gave birth to us in sorrows," affirms St. Pio. She is, therefore, the Mother Coredemptrix. She desires to raise her children and, what is more, to make them grow even unto the stature of Christ. She is, therefore, the Mother Mediatrix and Dispensatrix of all graces (19), always "associated with Jesus in applying the fruits of the Redemption to souls," as Fr. Melchior da Pobladura writes (20). The Coredemptrix reacquired the grace lost. The Mediatrix distributes the grace reacquired. There is an operative continuity between the Coredemption and Distribution of saving grace. And, according to the teaching of St. Pio of Pietrelcina, we should be eternally grateful to "our dear Coredemptrix" and to our "Mediatrix and Dispensatrix of all graces."

Fr. Stefano Maria Manelli, F.I., is Founder and Minister General of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. He is internationally known for his distinguished preaching and biblical, Mariological scholarship. His Biblical Mariology has recently appeared in English under the title: All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed.

Notes

(1) N. Castello, S.M. Manelli, La "dolce Signora" di Padre Pio, Cinisello Balsamo, IT 1999, p.119.

(2) On this theme cf. the more far ranging and elaborate study: S.M. Manelli, Maria SS.ma Corredentrice nella vita e negli scritti di Padre Pio da Pietrelcina, in AA.VV., Maria Corredentrice, Frigento, IT 1999, vol. II, pp.277-294; see also: N. Castello, S.M. Manelli, La "dolce Signora" di Padre Pio, edition cited, pp.119-128.

(3) Paolo VI, Discorso, Feb. 20, 1971.

(4) It has been written, with good reason, that in the life and writings of St. Pio "the transparent, close and indissoluble union of Mary Coredemptrix and Mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one Mediator between God and men is (found) everywhere" Melchiorre da Pobladura, Alla scuola spirituale di Padre Pio da Pietrelcina, San Giovanni Rotondo, IT 1978, p.93.

(5) A. Negrisolo, N. Castello, S.M. Manelli, Padre Pio nella sua interiorità, Rome, IT 1997, p. 58. Of considerable importance and interest would be a comparative study of the mystical experience and coredemptive thought of St. Pio and St. Veronica Giuliani (cf. Sr. Maria Francesca Perillo, Il mistero di Maria Corredentrice in santa Veronica Giuliani, in AA.VV., Maria Corredentrice, Frigento, IT 1999, vol. II, pp.169-217).

(6) St. Bonaventure, Apologia Pauperum, c.9, n.27; VII, 303.

(7) Discorso, Feb. 20, 1971.

(8) N. Castello, S.M. Manelli, work cited, pp.127-128. It should also be noted that St. Pio frequently recalled Our Lady of Sorrows to his penitents in giving them the sacramental penance of reciting seven Hail Mary’s to Our Lady of Sorrows, "and sometimes he could not succeed in finishing the word Addolorata (Our Lady of Sorrows) without an outburst of tears!" (ibid. p. 123).

(9) Cf. St. Bonaventure, Questio disputata de perfectione evangelica, Q.1, conclusion.

(10) Cf., for example, the first volume of the Epistolario, San Giovanni Rotondo, IT 1992, pp.213, 345, 384, 601, 639, 993 (here cited as: Ep.).

(11) Ep. I, p.597.

(12) Arnold of Chartres, De septem verbis Domini in cruce, 3, PL 189, 1694. This is a text quoted by Pope John Paul II in a catechesis on the Marian Coredemption on Oct. 25, 1995.

(13) Ep. I, p.602.

(14) So he writes, for example, in a letter: "Oh God, what torture I feel... Would that I could at least have the satisfaction of pouring out this interior martyrdom with tears. The sorrow is immense and has overwhelmed me." (ibid. 993).

(15) Ibid.

(16) Ep. III, p. 190.

(17) Ibid., p.384.

(18) The following is well stated: "As to the words 'dear Coredemptrix' it is important to verify how for Padre Pio of Pietrelcina the term Coredemptrix serves also to efficaciously explain the truth of the compassion and transfixion of Mary Most Holy in the universal work of Redemption. Here mystical theology, too, supports the usage of the term Coredemptrix, already common in Mariology and in the Church for centuries, used even by the Sovereign Pontiffs, and particularly by Pope John Paul II" (N. Castello, S.M. Manelli, work cited, pp.126-127).

(19) St. Pio himself wrote these expressions on a little memorial image for his fiftieth anniversary as a priest, calling Our Lady precisely the "most sweet Mother (mamma) of priests, Mediatrix and Dispensatrix of all graces" (reported by Ferdinando da Riese, P. Pio da Pietrelcina crocifisso senza croce, Foggia, IT 1991, p.428).

(20) Melchiorre da Pobladura, op. cit., p.96


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: padrepio
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In fact, Mary Most Holy, being united with the Redeemer—"under Him and with Him," as Vatican II teaches (LG 56)—reconciled humanity with God through the sacrificial offering consummated on Calvary; and after Calvary she continues unceasingly to reconcile man to God with her Mediation and Distribution of all the graces of Redemption. Consequently, she is proclaimed the Mother of universal reconciliation.
1 posted on 09/10/2007 6:18:16 AM PDT by stfassisi
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To: AveMaria1; Friar Roderic Mary; fr maximilian mary; Carolina; sandyeggo; Salvation; Pyro7480; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 09/10/2007 6:21:25 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi
The spiritual director of St. Pio of Pietrelcina, Fr. Benedict of San Marco, once told St. Pio in a letter of spiritual direction that his particular vocation was a "vocation to coredeem" by means of the daily trials, battles, sufferings, and toils coming from the exercise of his ministry.

This is very helpful and confirms my 'take' on the whole co-redemption thing. I think every Xtian is called to co-redeem in some way.

3 posted on 09/10/2007 6:24:35 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Mad Dawg

Here is a few more you might enjoy.
University of Dayton has a wonderful Mary page that is linked many Vatican Documents

Enjoy....

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary//marypage21.html

http://www.marycoredemptrix.com/coredemptrix.html

http://www.marycoredemptrix.com/coredemptrix.html

I wish you a Blessed day!


5 posted on 09/10/2007 6:37:12 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: Revelation 911; Religion Moderator
Revelation 911: Do you know what a Caucus thread is? Try reading this .Then maybe you might think about rephrasing your question?
6 posted on 09/10/2007 6:40:12 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Revelation 911

Dear Brother,
This is a Catholic Caucus thread.

Please find an open thread and I am sure myself and others will be happy to help you.

I wish you a Blessed day!


7 posted on 09/10/2007 6:40:27 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: stfassisi; Alex Murphy

Either post 8 (and 9) need to be removed or the thread must be opened for rebuttal. Which do you prefer?


10 posted on 09/10/2007 9:11:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator; stfassisi; Alex Murphy

Ok, that seems to be a bit ridiculous. A Caucus designation can be removed for now LINKING to something that is critical of another creed!?


11 posted on 09/10/2007 9:15:21 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Pyro7480

And we just lost a Caucus thread because of such manuevers.


12 posted on 09/10/2007 9:21:19 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

The earlier one that was locked because of “bad behavior”?


13 posted on 09/10/2007 9:23:10 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Pyro7480; Salvation; Mad Dawg
from the link Mad Dawg provided, re Caucus rules, in his post #6, above...
3. “Closed” threads on the Religion Forum include devotionals, prayer threads and caucuses. The header of the thread should make it obvious that the thread is closed, i.e. like a church meeting behind closed doors. Such assemblies will not be disturbed. Any challenges or ridicule will be removed. Any thread can be designated a caucus - e.g. labeled as a “[Catholic Caucus]” or “[LDS Caucus]” - provided that neither the article nor any of the posts challenge [*see footnote] or ridicule any other confession. These are “safe harbors” for those who are easily offended or are ill equipped to defend their own confession.

14 posted on 09/10/2007 9:25:00 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease.")
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To: stfassisi
Padre Pio and the Mother Co-redemptrix(CATHOLIC CAUCUS)

Saint Padre Pio letters #29Correspondence with Raffaelina Cerase

Message, Padre Pio and the Guardian Angel

Feast of St. Pio this FRIDAY! (Padre Pio - Pray for Texas!)

Padre Pio's Love for the Blessed Mother

St. Padre Pio

Padre Pio's Shrine, as the Architect Sees It - Renzo Piano Talks about Church, San Giovanni Rotondo

Padre Pio Aid Says Saint Accepted New Mass

Padre Pio: on Spirituality, Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae

Remarkable Transformation: Padre Pio

Cardinal Schotte (Head of the Synod of Bishops) and his view on Dallas; Rose petals for Padre Pio

Saint Padre Pio's Body Not Found in His Tomb?

Padre Pio Now A Saint - Wrestled With Devil, Predicted Future

Padre Pio Wrestled with Devil, Predicted Future

Pope Bestows Sainthood on Padre Pio

PADRE PIO DA PIETRELCINA

Padre Pio to be Canonized This June

His Friends Remember Padre Pio

15 posted on 09/10/2007 9:26:25 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Pyro7480

OK< my wrong interpretation.


16 posted on 09/10/2007 9:27:05 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Alex Murphy

So the interpretation is that a “post” can mean a link?? That’s absurd!


17 posted on 09/10/2007 9:29:27 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: stfassisi

Just my opinion, have the RM remove 8, 9 and the last one and keep the caucus designation.


18 posted on 09/10/2007 9:29:44 AM PDT by tiki
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Pyro7480

As I said, the caucus designation is now over. It just doesn’t know it yet. Wait until A Calvinist Caucus thread mentions Arminianism. I’ll be there.


20 posted on 09/10/2007 9:32:27 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Salvation

Did you ever notice that caucuses are the shortest of threads?


21 posted on 09/10/2007 9:33:59 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?)
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To: Pyro7480

Yeah, that was the one where some were permitted to come in and trash the thread, the first such posting at #3 while there was no known reference to anything challenging anything. Then others maintained that the title alone was so inflammatory that , in essence, no rules applied. Just believing what we believe and saying so is an offense to some.


22 posted on 09/10/2007 9:36:26 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Just believing what we believe and saying so is an offense to some.

Apparently so, given some of the posts I saw on that thread.

23 posted on 09/10/2007 9:39:26 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Mad Dawg

Well, we could make our own caucus rules and post them at the top of caucus threads.

When a Catholic/Orthodox caucus thread is posted and the RM refuses to honor it for any reason, we Catholics can refuse to engage the crashers. We can pretend that they aren’t there.

I can say from my view that I have not seen one of their posts which made a significant and valid point. Their posts might mislead other non-Catholics but they can’t touch my faith.


24 posted on 09/10/2007 9:39:59 AM PDT by tiki
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To: Alex Murphy
The real question has got to be if Catholics call some schools of thought heresies, then is that a challenge?

Sure I know what the first reaction is, but it is part of our ecclesiology to think that schools of thought which conflict advisedly and intentionally on matters which the Catholic Church considers de fide are by definition heretical.

Further, the term Protestant is so equivocal, that it's hard to see how to use it as the name of a "Faith" or a "confession". Do we mean merely those who disagree with the Catholic understanding of the role of the See of Peter or do we mean those who hold some variety of Calvinism, or what?

If the first, then the term is synonymous (for Catholics) with heretic -- just as Catholicism is considered a bundle of heresies by Protestants.

If you add to that holding a link to be equivalent to the post, then, as I say, the Caucus designation is toast.

25 posted on 09/10/2007 9:41:59 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: DungeonMaster; Pyro7480; Salvation; Mad Dawg

I’m still interested in seeing a non-Catholic caucus that was immediately swarmed by Catholics.

For that matter, I would be interested in seeing ANY non-Catholic thread, OTHER THAN THOSE WITH INFLAMMATORY TITLES (i.e. “Proof that Peter wasn’t Pope”, which I know has never actually been a title, but you get the idea), that has been swarmed by Catholics.

Maybe I have blinders on, but I am not aware of Catholics on this forum seeking non-Catholic threads to attack the beliefs of Protestants.


26 posted on 09/10/2007 9:42:50 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: stfassisi; Alex Murphy; Mad Dawg; tiki; All
I went ahead and removed 8,9 and 19 which addressed other confessions so the caucus can be maintained. If you'd rather have it opened, let me know.

The material on a link counts. For instance, if the website from which an article is posted includes links to Jack Chick material, it will be pulled.

Likewise, on the News Forum, if the link includes pornographic material, it will be pulled.

As to consistency in the application of Religion Forum guidelines, please be advised that I was on vacation last week. The Admin Moderators on duty used their best judgment in handling the notoriously hot thread.

Moreover, we have a policy of "stare decisis" - so that moderators do not disturb actions previously taken by other moderators.

For the record, unless the title includes a direct affront the caucus will not be broken on my watch. It would take something like "Protestants are heretics [Catholic Caucus]" to fail the test.

27 posted on 09/10/2007 9:45:13 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: tiki

“... we Catholics can refuse to engage the crashers.”

We can try but I’m even being harrassed by FReepmail now by one of them.


28 posted on 09/10/2007 9:47:22 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: DungeonMaster
Yeah, thoughtful discussion is way harder than cheap shots. To respond to this post I have to read and cogitate. But when somebody accuses me for the umpty-umpth time of believing something like Mary is equal to Jesus, I can answer those with my eyes closed. Well, okay not with my eyes af caec adjn

See? A little touch-typing issue here.

29 posted on 09/10/2007 9:48:44 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: OpusatFR

Let me know the particulars by Freepmail - harassment via Freepmail is not allowed.


30 posted on 09/10/2007 9:48:53 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator
The material on a link counts. For instance, if the website from which an article is posted includes links to Jack Chick material, it will be pulled.

Not to be confrontational, but this isn't quite clear.

Let's say hypothetically, a Catholic write writes something and in it he mentions Jack Chick hating Catholics and has an illustration of one of Chick's publications, would that be considered a link?

Hope you had a great vacation!

31 posted on 09/10/2007 9:49:39 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Religion Moderator

Sure thing.

Thanks.


32 posted on 09/10/2007 9:50:43 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR

I suspect I know which one.


33 posted on 09/10/2007 9:50:46 AM PDT by Petronski (Cleveland Indians: Pennant -14)
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To: stfassisi

I hope the record is adequately clear here: None of this involves referring to Mary as “Redemptrix.” Claims to the contrary are false.


34 posted on 09/10/2007 9:52:46 AM PDT by Petronski (Cleveland Indians: Pennant -14)
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To: OpusatFR

I got a couple too. I just deleted them. They just wanted to get the last word in.


35 posted on 09/10/2007 9:52:57 AM PDT by tiki
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To: wagglebee
Yes, it would be pulled - we don't want Jack Chick discussed at all. Ditto for the false Jesuit Oath, theology of Christian Identity/KKK/Aryan Nations, anti-Semitism, attempts to equate any confession with Islamic Fundamentalism (I zotted one of those last night) - and other hate-mongering materials.

And yes, I had a great vacation! Thank you!

36 posted on 09/10/2007 9:55:18 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: wagglebee
I’m still interested in seeing a non-Catholic caucus that was immediately swarmed by Catholics.

Why do you suppose it is that we rarely do caucuses?

37 posted on 09/10/2007 9:55:31 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?)
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To: Mad Dawg

I don’t know about you but when I read the caucus threads I learn alot. I love reading the responses and have learned from them too. I don’t often respond because most of the time I don’t have a lot to add.


38 posted on 09/10/2007 9:58:54 AM PDT by tiki
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To: Religion Moderator

That makes sense to a point. However, if a Catholic apologetic is writing something about religious bigotry and happens to mention the name, it would seem a little extreme to pull it.

Then again, you’re the one who makes the decisions.


39 posted on 09/10/2007 10:01:03 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: DungeonMaster

Then take the second part of my post.


40 posted on 09/10/2007 10:02:29 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: tiki

Yeah. That’s about where I am. Usually somebody said it all and better than I can.


41 posted on 09/10/2007 10:02:54 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: wagglebee

It is a bit extreme - but at least for now, I have determined it is necessary to disallow certain material to maintain respect on open threads.


42 posted on 09/10/2007 10:06:50 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Fair enough.


43 posted on 09/10/2007 10:07:54 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: DungeonMaster
Are you ever attacked with a barrage of many lies and distortions which purportedly address themselves to the mental health of people who disagree with what you officially teach but blame the distortions on you? Do people put up lengthy posts in large and colorful type and mock the terms of your confession?

This is pretty common on threads related to Catholic topics. Comment #4 attacked us for a belief only tangentially related to what we in fact teach and scarcely related to the notion of co-redeemers or co-redemptrices.

That's why we have caucus threads. Those who disagree with us prefer disagreeing not with us but with their cleverly devised fables about what we believe. It's wearing.

44 posted on 09/10/2007 10:13:49 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: wagglebee; Gamecock; Religion Moderator
I’m still interested in seeing a non-Catholic caucus that was immediately swarmed by Catholics....Maybe I have blinders on, but I am not aware of Catholics on this forum seeking non-Catholic threads to attack the beliefs of Protestants.

Here's a few that come immediately to mind. And Gamecock posted a Protestant caucus on a pro-life topic, that I can't find the link to at this time.

REFORMATION SUNDAY (Reformed Caucus)
Why the Reformers Read the Fathers [Calvinist/Reformed Caucus thread]

45 posted on 09/10/2007 10:14:36 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease.")
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To: Alex Murphy

Wow! Those are disgraceful. I’m embarrassed!


46 posted on 09/10/2007 10:21:03 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Petronski
I hope the record is adequately clear here: None of this involves referring to Mary as “Redemptrix.” Claims to the contrary are false.

Agreed!

Geesh ,I left to go to Mass and the religion mod's around here remove links that help explain things in more detail!

Go figure! They will stop at nothing to discredit our Blessed Mother

47 posted on 09/10/2007 10:21:08 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi

If you’d prefer, I can restore the link and the posts following - but the thread will have to be opened for rebuttal. Or you can find similar materials which do not contrast beliefs between confessions.


48 posted on 09/10/2007 10:28:26 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Mad Dawg
Are you ever attacked with a barrage of many lies and distortions which purportedly address themselves to the mental health of people who disagree with what you officially teach but blame the distortions on you? Do people put up lengthy posts in large and colorful type and mock the terms of your confession? This is pretty common on threads related to Catholic topics.

And it's equally common on your side of the aisle, as well. I'll refrain from mentioning the name of the Catholic poster who posted them, but here's a sampling of earlier quotes, and the dates they were posted, from one of the Catholics on that Marian thread that was shut down over the weekend. Catholics are no more innocent of the religious flamewars here than Protestants are.

1/23: Brace thyself for the attacks of snake handlers, calvinists, "non-denoms" and others...
1/24: If you're upset that I called out the cults for what they are...sorry...but it's still an accurate depiction of the non-denoms, mormons, calvinists and other wacky cults.
2/5: Mormons...the cult that's become commonplace...so hard-up for membership that they have to resort to attempted spiritual kidnapping of the dead...
2/13: Fact is, John Calvin was an unintelligent, perverse fraud who founded a cult known as "calvinism." The Episcopal "Church" was started by an English king who could not get the Pope to accept the king's immoral ways. Luther was a disaffected, likely egomaniacal priest. Protestantism is a breakoff of mainstream Christianity that seeks to glorify the pastor more than the Lord. Presby's are some of the laziest "Christians" out there...as are all of their predestination cousins.
2/14: Would the calvinist cult members like some damnation with their heresy?
2/15: As for your post, you're also off base and reciting a continual lie of the snake handlers, calvinists and "pastor" worship folks at the Church of the Almighty Dollar.
2/21: Hey...I'm not surprised by anything the snake-handling crowd does. Their "churches" are simply shrines to the "pastors" - no theological foundation...
3/1: Why is this listed as a Catholic interest article? Why not Calvinists? They're the ones who practice the witchcraft.
3/2: You'll note that it's "Calvin" College. Again, I ask why are the activities at a cult center in the midwest relevant to Catholics?
3/4: I tell ya, this "reverend" ... is nothing more than an uneducated bumpkin. Wonder how much money he's skimming from the ship of fools attending his "church..."
3/4: You'd be stunned by how quickly these snake handlers degrade into profanity, anger and threats.
3/4: Again, a demonstration of a protestant being ignorant...
3/4: Let's have a little fun with that wackiest of prot sects, the Baptists
3/5: Being a protestant is in itself a demonstration of ignorance...
3/6: The pentacostals, "church of God" and others are simply inventions of men...designed to pump the ego and line the pockets of the "pastors." But continue donating...I'm sure your pastor is happy in his new Benz...
3/7: Martin Luther, being a relatively lazy type, deleted a good chunk of the Bible? A British king, attempting to justify his own heresy and immorality, heavily edited a version to suit his own twisted lifestyle?
3/7: Yes, if you're a born again, declared protty, then you're clear to do whatever you wish..."date" male hookers, cheat on your spouse, defraud donors of money intended for religious purposes...not that any protestant "ministers" did that or anything...
3/9: Perhaps things are different at your church - one of the, what, million protestant sects? However, the snake handling pentacostal calvinist wannabeatelevangelist "churches" here typically only use snippets.
3/14: Hell, most "Protestant" "churches" in my area are simply shrines to the ego (and pocketbook) of the "pastor."
3/28: Luther was a self-absorbed idiot...and his followers are fools...a complete bunch of utter fools.
3/28: Perhaps I'll just convert to that calvinist cult I've heard so much about.
3/31: That's the real origin of the Anglican church - born of sin and a king's ego,

49 posted on 09/10/2007 10:28:48 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease.")
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To: Mad Dawg

I believe this thread is staying in the caucus state so I’ll wait for some other opportunity to discuss Marianism.


50 posted on 09/10/2007 10:28:49 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?)
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