Skip to comments.DNA and the Dead Sea Scrolls how do the pieces fit!
Posted on 09/15/2007 11:47:41 AM PDT by restornu
Click Video- Learn how DNA was able to sort out and match the DDS fragments
Is it legit, or is it LDS propaganda?
I have no idea if this is true or not, but I read through many translations of the scrolls when I was in Vietnam many years ago and they gave me an entirely new view of the role that Constantine played in the canonization of the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls are worth more than a casual browse for any Christian.
Its legit. ByU Scientists have been involved for many years in putting the 800+ manuscripts back together. They were written on parchment(animal skins) and buried until 1947. It has been an a long process until they were able to start using DNA to verify which parchment piece goes with together.
He explained it by saying if you took 800 10,000 piece puzzles mixed the pieces together and threw away the picture on the box - this is what they have been faced with.
Listen to it - promise you won’t be brain washed into becoming Mormon. The dead sea scrolls are very precious to all Jews and Christians.
I listened to it. Had to laugh when he was stating that some of the scrolls had the rules of the community.
Apparantly they had a communial meal together every day(or week cant remember).
Only the worthy were allowed to attend.
If you were found guilty of being a fool, you couldn’t attend for 30 days. Guess Congress would all be skinny as a rail if they had that rule.
For the LDS Church to continue to evolve, this will have to change. More and more, the LDS Church wants to be regarded as a "mainline" Christian church and will have to continue to abandon its more, shall we say, "unique" practices. Ending and outlawing polygamy was a start. More recently, the allowing of blacks in the priesthood (1978) and changes in their temple ceremonies have been a direct result of negative publicity.
Now comes the irony. Mitt Romney, a Mormon, is running for president. Most Mormons think this is simply wonderful. Most, not all. I know many Mormons and have been interested in what they have to say about Romney. Some, of course, are mind-numbed robots that will dutifully go pull the lever for a Mormon. Others that I have spoken to have said emphatically "I'm NOT going to vote for Romney just because he's a Mormon!" And they meant it. The couple I spoke to that said this were hoping that Fred Thompson would join the race, so he was their first choice. And these aren't "jack Mormons" I'm talking about either. These are temple Mormons living in Utah, but even they have said they are to the point of wanting to throw up every time they see an article on Romney in the Deseret News, because it's just another warmed-over puff piece about him being a member of "the church".
Still another LDS member that I'm very close to doesn't even want Romney in the race. She said it's because she just doesn't want the "whole Mormon thing" in the news. This really got me to thinking. The more I think about, the more I believe that the farther Romney goes, the better it will be for the LDS Church in the long run. By that, I mean the longer Romney hangs around, and it looks like he's in the "top 3" right now, the more light will be shown on the LDS Church.
Nothing but good can come out of this. When the heart of LDS doctrine becomes more widely known in the US, the more difficult time the LDS Church will have in appealing to people who are looking for a "Christian" church. Their conversion rates have already dropped dramatically over the past 10-15 years, and this will only increase now.
With decreasing conversion rates and bad publicity what will the LDS Church do in response? My guess is they will do the same as they have before when cornered. Change.
Any precedence for this? Sure is. After Joseph Smith died, the LDS Church actually split. Some followed Smith's son, while others followed Brigham Young to Utah. The former became the Reorganized Church of LDS, while the later became the LDS church in Utah. The RLDS church slowly moved away from most of the "peculiarities" of Mormon doctrine. They now regard the Bible as the authoritative Word of God without exception (like "as far as it's correctly translated"). They also changed their name and are now the "Community of Christ". They believe in the Trinity as most traditional Christian denominations do. They are close to being little different than a traditional Christian denomination.
I believe this is also the path the Utah Mormon church will follow, albeit not without some kicking and screaming.
So, to answer your question, the LDS Church still puts much less emphasis on the Bible than do most Christians and they make it subservient to their BOM, D&C, and their "prophets". Hopefully, that will change, and hopefully soon.
How many scientists from your church are involved with the dead sea scrolls? We believe they sacred enough to finance in part and lend scientists to help in the project. Jews and LDS working together for the same thing.
As to the bible - we study it as much as we do the Book of Mormon. You see, the Book of Mormon is a companion to the bible. There is nothing in the Book of Mormon that contradicts the bible. It is simply the sacred text of the descendents of Abraham who came to America.
Each year in Sunday school we study a different text. One year is the old testament, one year the new testament and one year the Book of Mormon. Each Sunday we discuss in detail a section. What does it mean? How does it apply to our lives today? How can we become better Christians because of what we learned.
However, the most important thing that is stressed over and over is:
“We claim the priveledge of worshiping Almighty God according to our own conscience, and allow all men the same priviledge, let them worship how, where or what they may.”
You do not hear Mormons bashing the Baptists, Catholics, Jews or any other religion. We just don’t believe it is our place to tell someone that their beliefs are wrong. In fact we believe that satan’s greatest tool is to get Christians fighting each other.
BYU is excellent in all things related to document research - many of their breakthroughs have literally changed the way we handle old manuscripts and archival documents.
In addition, their language programs are among the very best in the world.
There is nothing in the Book of Mormon that contradicts the bible.
You, sir, are following a delusion. I found this on the net:
Mormonism is based on the belief that extraterrestrial humanoids from a distant star called Kolob, came to this earth and visited a young 14 year old boy named Joseph Smith, resulting in teachings that are very different, far, far removed from orthodox Christianity.
Mormonism teaches that trillions of planets scattered throughout the cosmos are ruled by countless gods who once were humans like us. They say long ago on one of these planets, to an unidentified god and one of his goddess wives, a spirit child named elohim was conceived. This spirit child was later born to human parents who gave him a physical body.
Through obedience, he proved himself worthy and was elevated to godhood as his father before him. Mormons believe that elohim is their heavenly father, and that he lives with his many goddess wives on a planet near a mysterious star called Kolob. Here, the god of Mormonism and his goddess wives through endless celestial sex produce billions of spirit children.
To decide these childrens destiny, the gods called a great heavenly council meeting. Both elohims oldest sons were there, Lucifer and his brother Jesus. A plan was presented to make the planet earth where spirit children could take on mortal bodies and learn good and evil. Lucifer stood up and made his bid fro becoming savior of this new world. Wanting the glory for himself, he planned to force everyone to become gods. Opposing this idea, the Mormon Jesus proposed giving freedom of choice, as on other planets. The vote that followed approved the plan of the Mormon Jesus, he, not Lucifer, would become savior of the planet earth.
Enraged, Lucifer cunningly convinced 1/3 of the spirits destined for earth to fight with him in revolt. Thus Lucifer became the devil and his followers the demons. They were to be sent to earth where they would forever be denied bodies of flesh and bone. Those who remained neutral in the battle were cursed with black skin. This is the Mormon explanation for the Negro race.
Spirits that fought most valiantly against Lucifer were to be born into Mormon families of planet earth. These would be the lighter skinned people.
Early Mormon prophets taught that elohim and one of his goddess wives came to earth as Adam and Eve to start the human race. Thousands of years later, elohim came to earth in human form from the star base, Kolob. This time to have sex with the virgin Mary in order to provide the Mormon Jesus with a physical body.
Mormon Apostle, Orson Pratt, taught that after Jesus grew to manhood, he took at least three wives, Mary (?), Martha, and Mary Magdalene. Through these wives, the Mormon Jesus, through whom Joseph Smith claimed direct descent, supposedly fathered a number of children before he was crucified.
According to the book of Mormon, after his resurrection Jesus came to the Americas to preach to the Indians who are really Israelites. Thus the Jesus of Mormonism established his church in the Americas as he had in Palestine.
By the year 421 AD, the dark skinned Indian Israelites, called Lamanites, had destroyed all the white Nephites in a number of great battles. The Nephites records were supposedly written on golden plates and buried at the hill Cumorah by the last living Nephite, Moroni.
1400 years later, a young treasure seeker named Joseph Smith, who was known for his tall tales, claimed to have uncovered these same golden plates near his home in upstate New York.
He is now honored by Mormons as a prophet. He claims to have been given a vision of the spirit world, in which he was commanded to organize the Mormon Church. All Christian churches, he was told, were an abomination. It was Joseph Smith who originated the peculiar doctrines in which millions today believe to be true.
By maintaining a rigid code of financial and moral requirements, and by performing secret temple rituals with themselves and the dead, the Latter Day Saints hope to prove their worthiness and thus become gods.
The Mormons teach that everyone must stand at the final judgment before Joseph Smith, the Mormon Jesus, and elohim. Those Mormons sealed in eternal marriage ceremonies expect to become polygamous gods in the celestial kingdom where they will rule over the planets and spawn new children throughout eternity.
The Mormons thank god for Joseph Smith, who claimed he had done more for us than any other man, including Jesus Christ. The Mormons believe that Smith died as a martyr, he shed his blood for us, so that we too may become gods.
“You do not hear Mormons bashing the Baptists, Catholics, Jews or any other religion. We just dont believe it is our place to tell someone that their beliefs are wrong.” Um, your cult is founded upon calling Orthodoxy apostasy! Smith’s supposed vision (first it was Nephi, then it was Moroni, then it was God the Father and Jesus, depending upon which year the vision is pointed from!) claimed ALL Christianity is in apostasy. Mormonism apologists are repeatedly posting material they intend to create doubt about Orthodox Christianity, into which the apologists will pour the heresies of Mormonism. Your assertion is pure bunk.
This is about solutions to some of the road blocks in being able to read the DDS and you all you folks can do is fault fine!
You should go and pray to the Heavenly Father to elevate your thoughts; backbiting isn’t from the Lord.
This angel is the one who told Joseph Smith where the gold plates were buried and can be seen on top of most LDS temples. However, a close examination of early church history tells a different story. Some early Mormon sources which say that the angels name was actually Nephi are as follows:
The Times and Seasons Vol. III pp. 749, 753 ("He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."). [In modern printings of the History of the Church, this has been changed to read "Moroni". It is interesting to note that Joseph Smith lived for two years after the name "Nephi" was printed in Times and Seasons and he never published a retraction.]
In August, 1842, the Millennial Star, printed in England, also published Joseph Smith's story stating that the angel's name was "Nephi" (see Millennial Star, vol. 3, p.53). On page 71 of the same volume we read that the ...message of the angel Nephi ... opened a new dispensation to man...."
The name was also published in the 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price as "Nephi." ("He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi." (Pearl of Great Price, 1851 edition, page 41) The original handwritten manuscript of the PofGP dictated by Joseph Smith reveals that the name was originally written as "Nephi," but that someone at a later date has written the word "Moroni" above the line. All evidence indicates that this change was made after Joseph Smiths death.
Walter L. Whipple, in his thesis written at BYU, stated that Orson Pratt "published The Pearl of Great Price in 1878, and removed the name of Nephi from the text entirely and inserted the name Moroni in its place" ("Textual Changes in the Pearl of Great Price," typed copy, p.125).
Why would the church feel the need to change Joseph Smiths story? The fact of the matter is that Moroni makes much more sense than Nephi because it was Moroni who was alleged to have buried the plates in the first place. But, let's not forget, Joseph Smith said the angel was named Nephi, NOT Moroni.
This is just another example of "The Brethren" changing Joseph Smith's story to make it more consistent and to remove (retroactively no less) all of the holes in Joseph's story.
LDS are not about creating doubt it is about there is more Good News for the children of God.
Please stop trying to create enmity by injecting your personal agenda on a non denominational project report on the DDS.
You got a religion grip take it to the religion forum and start your own thread.
This article is posted under News/Activism. If you want a protected propaganda post for Mormonism, take it to the proper caucus forum, otherwise the assertions by apologists are fair game for debunking.
In case your mind has no clue this is a news story in how molecular biology solved this situation so the DDS fragments could be organized!
If it was about religion I would have put it there this is about solving problem for DDS Project.
Your hate for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is for the religion forum.
No one is stopping you from starting your own thread on the evils of the LDS over there go head and have fun!
You ever read the Book of Enoch? Some very cool stuff there.
Here’s a neat site on angelic powers as depicted in ancient docs: http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/
Gee, I don’t know. What the hell is LDS?
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