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Scriptural View of Mary
Catholic Pages ^ | Dr. Scott Hahn

Posted on 10/08/2007 6:08:42 AM PDT by NYer

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To: OLD REGGIE; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; 1000 silverlings; Uncle Chip; irishtenor; xzins; ...
And, if she didn't interceed....?????? Would Jesus not hear - not listen?

There are so MANY errors and foul questions that come from this goofy Mariology that it's a wonder as many RCs believe it as they do.

"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.

Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.

I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.

Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee. 1

Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about." -- Psalm 32:1-10


141 posted on 10/09/2007 2:14:01 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Pyro7480
That is a blatant lie, repeated over-and-over for hundreds of years. The Sacrifice of the Mass is THE SAME Sacrifice of Calvary. It isn't a repeated Sacrifice. There is only one Sacrifice of the Mass.

Thank you for making that clear. I doubt it will help, but you have been a witness.

142 posted on 10/09/2007 2:14:11 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Pyro7480

The fact that time is a mystery is no excuse for contradicting God’s word.


143 posted on 10/09/2007 2:15:00 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Pyro7480
Did you even read the link I posted? The Sabbatine Privilege isn’t merely about wearing the Brown Scapular.

Right? But it is part of it. It was the only part of it for centuries until later Popes realized that it was too simple and easy and decided to add some more conditions. But it is still supposedly Mary's plan of salvation of which wearing the scapular is a part --

144 posted on 10/09/2007 2:17:45 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Pyro7480; Dr. Eckleburg
That's not completely accurate.

But if any man say: This has been sacrificed to idols, do not eat of it for his sake that told it, and for conscience' sake (1 Cor. 10:28).


Are you leaving something out? Purposely?

1 Corinthians 10:
[25] Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.
[26] For "the earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."
[27] If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.
[28] (But if some one says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then out of consideration for the man who informed you, and for conscience' sake --
[29] I mean his conscience, not yours -- do not eat it.) For why should my liberty be determined by another man's scruples?

145 posted on 10/09/2007 2:19:29 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: papertyger
PYRO: It isn't a repeated Sacrifice. There is only one Sacrifice of the Mass.

PAPERTYGER: Thank you for making that clear.

Ping to post 138 and the Catholic thread therein which, according to Father Baker, instructed us of the RCC teaching that...

"...the priest...in a mysterious way offers once again the unique sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross..."

So it looks like you and Father Baker are at odds. Time to get your stories straight.

146 posted on 10/09/2007 2:20:44 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Uncle Chip
So you're Elijah, now?

Why aren't you muslim? If what Elijah did was "evangelism," Mohammed should be right up your alley.

147 posted on 10/09/2007 2:24:50 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Quix
The FIRST COMMANDMENT WAS TO HAVE NO AS IN NO OTHER GODS BEFORE GOD. That includes the Mother of Jesus.

Amen. I doubt if He looks kindly on placing them next to His Son, either, in terms of reverence, worship and allegiance.

148 posted on 10/09/2007 2:25:56 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

149 posted on 10/09/2007 2:26:20 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"...the priest...in a mysterious way offers once again the unique sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross..."
150 posted on 10/09/2007 2:31:38 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Uncle Chip; Pyro7480; papertyger; wmfights
Here it is from New Advent:

"The Sabbatine Privilege thus consists essentially in the early liberation from purgatory, through the special intercession and petition of Mary, which she graciously exercises in favour of her devoted servants preferentially -- as we may assume -- on the day consecrated to her, Saturday. Furthermore, the conditions for the gaining of the privilege are of such a kind as justify a special trust in the assistance of Mary. It is especially required of all who wish to share in the privilege that they faithfully preserve their chastity, and recite devoutly each day the Little Hours of the Blessed Virgin. However, all those who are bound to read their Breviary, fulfil the obligation of reciting the Little Hours by reading their Office. Persons who cannot read must (instead of reciting the Little Hours) observe all the fasts prescribed by the Church as they are kept in their home diocese or place of residence, and must in addition abstain from flesh meat on all Wednesdays and Saturdays of the year, except when Christmas falls on one of these days. The obligation to read the Little Hours and to abstain from flesh meat on Wednesday and Saturday may on important grounds be changed for other pious works; the faculty to sanction this change was granted to all confessors by Leo XIII in the Decree of the Congregation of Indulgences of 11 (14) June, 1901."

151 posted on 10/09/2007 2:33:09 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

There is no contradiction. It is only an apparent contradiction because you have been fed a heretical theology.


152 posted on 10/09/2007 2:36:02 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: papertyger; DallasMike
Perhaps showing how the Catholic Church defines "co-redemptrix" would be helpful at this point?

Please do.
153 posted on 10/09/2007 2:37:14 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: Uncle Chip
Ahhh -- the question that millions of those sitting in purgatory on Sunday morning wish that they had asked before they died trusting in Scapular Mary.

What's wrong? Afraid it might actually sound reasonable if you didn't delete enough detail?

154 posted on 10/09/2007 2:38:52 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger
If what Elijah did was "evangelism," Mohammed should be right up your alley.

It was evangelism for those who paid attention to Elijah, so the alley is yours to take.

155 posted on 10/09/2007 2:39:29 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Here are some things for you and others to read before you let accusations fly without knowing the facts:

What You {Catholics} Need to Know: Mass (Sacred Liturgy) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Eucharistic Mystery [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Eucharist (Real Presence) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

Face it! It's a mystery, and if you don't understand it on faith, then we will let the Lord, Jesus Christ, be the judge at the moment you die. Will He ask you, "Why did you ridicule the Holy Eucharist? The Sacrament I instituted at the Last Supper? The Sacrament I instructed my apostles and disciples, "Do this in remembrance of me."?? Only you will be able to answer for yourself.

Praying for you and for all the unbelievers that you may come to the wisdom and knowledge of faith.

156 posted on 10/09/2007 2:43:29 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Pyro7480; Dr. Eckleburg
You’re thinking as humans do, not as God does. The Sacrifice of the Cross took place in time, but it transcends the limitations of time.

Pure Catholicspeak.

Remember, there is no teaching of the RCC which is so clear it cannot be denied, redefined, or modified as required.

157 posted on 10/09/2007 2:44:54 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: OLD REGGIE

lol. More’s the pity.


158 posted on 10/09/2007 2:45:35 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
This reference ALSO has Scriptural basis listed. Please check it out.

The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

159 posted on 10/09/2007 2:46:56 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Face it! It's a mystery

At the heart of our faith is the great paradox. That much is true. But through God's word there is so much we can and must know about God and Christ and ourselves. Hebrews 10 says Christ's sacrifice was "once" for all the sins of His flock.

According to the link I posted from Father Baker, the mass indeed repeats the sacrifice as if the first time had not accomplished all that it was supposed to have accomplished.

Thank you for the links. But they all say the same thing. The mass is a perpetual sacrifice, which is against God's word and denies the truth that the sins of Christ's sheep have been paid for in full at Calvary.

The eucharist is worship of the material world, of icons and relics and statues and repeated sacrifices, all performed by men who blasphemously are referred to as "another Christ."

God is spiritual and we are instructed to worship Him spiritually, not carnally.

"Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods." -- Psalm 97:7


"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." -- John 4:24


160 posted on 10/09/2007 3:00:16 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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