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Italy's Padre Pio 'faked his stigmata with acid'
Telegraph ^ | October 24, 2007 | Malcolm Moore

Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer

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To: xzins

I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. This isn’t something I’m arguing. I really was just trying to understand what you were saying.


951 posted on 10/29/2007 4:21:08 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD
God is perfectly capable of defending that Himself and He is in the change management business. All God asks of us is to simply be true to His word.

Amen. I'm sending these verses to my children...

"My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding...

My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:

So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.

Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.

For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken." -- Proverbs 3:1-5;21-26


952 posted on 10/29/2007 4:34:18 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg
But let us say in an open thread something positive about the BVM and her intercession and it seems that half the time we'll end up being told that it's all so Rome can make money and control us and because we hate sex. What do you think that's about?

God planned for us to have these types of discussions simply so that we can distinguish the truth from untruth. We are to search things out.

I get into these discussions because it bothers me that people don't carefully read what is written in front of them. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing more valuable to God than His word. The longest Psalms in scripture (119) is devoted entirely to the word of God. Our Lord Jesus was the WORD incarnate. And until I became a Calvinist I couldn't figure out half of the things the scriptures were talking about simply because I was reading the scriptures the WRONG way. I appreciate people telling me where I'm wrong because I would like to take an honest look at it, compare it to scripture and see if I'm wrong.

Each of us are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, not hugs and kisses. People are free to ignore me-many do. But I would caution people that they need to take a real honest look at what the scriptures are saying in light of their own theological viewpoint.

953 posted on 10/29/2007 5:41:26 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Funny, I thought ps 119 was about the law. There's either a word like "law" or "commandment" or a figurative synonym like "word" in every verse.

But the nub of the problem, of course, is that while you and I agree, pretty much about "feelings", and hugs and kisses, pretty much, we disagree fundamentally about the place of the Bible in establishing doctrine. We find in the Bible a basis for our opinion, and you do for yours. And if we're going to talk about a "great gulf", that's where I think it is.

To some, the behavior of the Bereans evidently seems like a clear-cut proof of Sola Scriptura. I just don't see it. What I CAN see is that IF one posits Sola Scriptura, THEN one can see the Bereans that way. (and if one doesn't, one doesn't.) And, of course, I think I TOOK a "real, honest", and protracted (more than 22 years) look at Scripture, and became a Catholic.

I don't think the wild accusations I have seen on either side contribute to a process of searching things out any more than fancy type-faces and perseveration, so if you are right about God's plan, I think these behaviors work against it.

954 posted on 10/29/2007 6:14:50 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; Dr. Eckleburg; Grudgebringer; xzins; HarleyD; wmfights
Thank you for your reply and for sharing your insights!

As for “to God be glory, not man”: if that is meant as a criticism of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception or of this claim about J the B, I’m astonished. You know, or should know, that we think these things are entirely by God’s power and grace, and not man’s doing at all. It’s not, in the first consideration, that Mary and J the B are such swell people. It’s that God is a remarkably and always surprisingly swell (to use the theological term) God, and they are recipients of remarkably swell gifts. That Mary and J the B are swell afterwards is God’s doing.

As you probably already know, I personally eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men across the board - so doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception of Mary and sinlessness in John the Baptist have no currency with me.

If you are led of the Spirit to embrace such doctrines and traditions, then that is what you must do.

I am led by God the Father's revelations in 1) Jesus Christ His only begotten Son, 2) the indwelling Holy Spirit, 3) the Scriptures which the Spirit has personally authenticated and 4) the Creation both spiritual and physical.

And I too will do as the Spirit leads me. (Romans 8, John 15-17 et al)

On the other point, my declaration "To God be the glory, not man." - agrees with the Great Commandment.

The second commandment is not the Great Commandment.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. – Matt 22:37-40

If we keep these two commandments, the rest is just details - hence the importance of keeping the priorities.

There is only one Great Commandment.

The same message of priorities appears throughout Scripture, though I am particularly fond of Revelation chapters four and five.

So again I say:

To God be the glory, not man.


955 posted on 10/29/2007 9:53:41 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
If we keep these two commandments, the rest is just details - hence the importance of keeping the priorities. There is only one Great Commandment.

Amen, Alamo-Girl! Only one.

"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates...

Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God" -- Deuteronomy 6:5-9;14-16


"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." -- Matthew 12:48-50


956 posted on 10/29/2007 11:32:31 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD
God planned for us to have these types of discussions simply so that we can distinguish the truth from untruth. We are to search things out. I get into these discussions because it bothers me that people don't carefully read what is written in front of them. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing more valuable to God than His word. The longest Psalms in scripture (119) is devoted entirely to the word of God. Our Lord Jesus was the WORD incarnate.

Amen, Harley!

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word...

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee...

I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live, and keep thy word...

My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word...

So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word." -- Psalm 119:9,11,16-17,25,42


957 posted on 10/29/2007 11:47:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg; Dr. Eckleburg
To some, the behavior of the Bereans evidently seems like a clear-cut proof of Sola Scriptura. I just don't see it....so if you are right about God's plan, I think these behaviors work against it.

I don't wish to sound preachy but for a while I had part of Ezra 3:13 as my tagline. The text of Ezra is:

Most people (and commentators) read this as there were those who could not see what God was doing in peoples' lives. Consequently those who were mourning were focus on things of the past.

I believe this is a misinterpretation. Those ancient fathers who had seen the first temple knew the glory and majesty represented by that first temple. What they saw in front of them in the second temple was a cheap imitation version and they wept. Sure God was working in the people's lives and people were singing songs and having a good time; but the people truly didn't understand the lost they suffered. They didn't remember the glory and majestic of their former temple. The crying of those who did remember could not be heard over the joy, the praising and the giving of thanks. What God had given the people was a diminished version of His glory.

Call me Mr. Sourpuss but there is much truth in this. Christianity has moved on to the second temple. We sing for joy when we should be weeping at what we have lost. We no longer see the beauty and majesty of God's gospel, replacing it with substandard products like pageantry, councils, and bumper stickers. And we're happy.

Sorry friend, frank discussions about the scriptures over the precepts of man do not work against us. They are simply a call reminding people of what we are losing.
958 posted on 10/30/2007 4:50:43 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Alamo-Girl
I agree, in large part.

I disagree, as you know, that the Immaculate conception is one of the "doctrines and traditions of men". My comment was conditional, thus: "If that is meant as a criticism ..." (with the accent on the 'if'.)

My subsidiary point was that doctrine, as articulated, obeys the injunction to give God the glory, and proclaims, as we understand it, one of the examples of His gloriousness.

I enthusiastically pray the Non nobis(Ps 115).

959 posted on 10/30/2007 5:10:15 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: HarleyD
Okay, I'm getting a concept that, from your POV (and that of some of the cheering peanut gallery), the motivation is not what I would call a discussion seeking understanding, but a proclamation among the heathen of the truth, "and let God sort them out."

So, in support of this conjecture: When I go after an argument, I am tend to be looking for errors in fact (It is said we teach "A", while my understanding is that we do not) or logic (Since some pray to saints, therefore they must think the NEED to pray to saints), among which are internal contradictions or absurdities (no examples come to mind). You on the other hand will consider the mission mostly accomplished merely by clearly articulating the "correct" doctrine.

We're trying to do two different things. So when you mount an assault on our notions of the intercessions of the Saints, any related criticism is relevant. So that if you raise the question of "Why not go straight to Jesus?" and I answer that Protestants also ask for the prayers of others, you think it germane to bring up, say, the "prayers to the dead" criticism, because the goal is to stomp into the dirt the whole idea of intercession of the saints. While for me, the manner of stomping, the truth, reasonableness, and efficacy of it is what needs examining, and since we're not done looking at the question of intercession generally, the bringing up of the 'dead' question is a just changing the subject and looks evasive.

So when your side is done mentioning this or that point and hauling out this or that piece of Scripture or Calvin, you all Amen and generally high-five each other. And we're thinking and sometimes saying, "Wow, how unreasonable and perseverative they are!" We are seeking to discuss, while you are seeking to proclaim and denounce. I am not HERE saying which is better. I'm just pointing out that a lot of the problem is that we are doing two very different things with different goals.

To you all, the raising of a contradictory fact or the pointing out of a logical anomaly is an interference with your divine mission of denunciation and proclamation, so it must be driven out somehow -- anyhow. To us the repetition and piling up of citations just looks like throwing one rock after another and not stopping to see if they were well-aimed.

This can lead to a certain level of animosity. And, indeed, if my take is right, then I see no point in "engaging" with you all, except possibly socially and, maybe, in prayer sometimes.

960 posted on 10/30/2007 5:34:26 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Okay, I'm getting a concept that, from your POV...is not what I would call a discussion seeking understanding, but a proclamation among the heathen of the truth, "and let God sort them out."

You on the other hand will consider the mission mostly accomplished merely by clearly articulating the "correct" doctrine.

So that if you raise the question of "Why not go straight to Jesus?" and I answer that Protestants also ask for the prayers of others, you think it germane to bring up, say, the "prayers to the dead" criticism,

So when your side is done...you all Amen and generally high-five each other. And we're thinking and sometimes saying, "Wow, how unreasonable and perseverative they are!" We are seeking to discuss, while you are seeking to proclaim and denounce.

To you all, the raising of a contradictory fact or the pointing out of a logical anomaly is an interference with your divine mission of denunciation and proclamation, so it must be driven out somehow -- anyhow.

This can lead to a certain level of animosity. And, indeed, if my take is right, then I see no point in "engaging" with you all, except possibly socially and, maybe, in prayer sometimes.


961 posted on 10/30/2007 6:48:08 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Mad Dawg
Thank you both oh so very much for your encouragements and especially for those beautiful passages of Scripture!

Deuteronomy 6:5-9;14-16 which Dr. Eckleburg quoted stresses the diligence required to keep our priorities straight - think the Great Commandment with every conscious moment, teach it, speak it, write it on our hands and between our eyes, put it on the posts of our house and our gates.

We mortals are small-minded and easily distracted - the media yells "watch the birdie" and we do. We "rubber-neck" over all kinds of things. We stub our toe and that becomes the most important thing in the world.

Truly, only one command is first, only one command is great:

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. - Matt 22

This is the meaning of life, the purpose for our existence:

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. - Revelation 4:11

Whatever it takes, we must not subordinate the Great Commandment.

Some might be helped by wrapping a string around their finger or carrying a pebble in their shoe to cause them discomfort. Some might train their minds to think of Jesus with every breath they take.

Some might leave notes to themselves on their todo lists, shopping lists and other places around the house. I confess to doing this, I write NWK on every puzzle I work (because they are 'watch the birdie' to me) --- repeating the priority from the Lord's Prayer: Thy Name be hallowed, thy will be done, thy kingdom come.

To GOD be the glory, not man!

Mad Dawg, Psalms 115 begins with the perfect thought to finish this sidebar, quoting verse 1:

Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, [and] for thy truth's sake.

Praise God!!!

962 posted on 10/30/2007 8:49:22 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Mad Dawg; HarleyD; Alamo-Girl
since we're not done looking at the question of intercession generally, the bringing up of the 'dead' question is a just changing the subject and looks evasive.

The "bringing up of the dead question" is central to the error of praying to anyone other than the Triune God.

The RCC believes in purgatory and that the prayers of the living can effect the eventual destination of the dead.

Bible-believing Christians know that at the moment of our death, we will either reside blameless in heaven with God or condemned by our sins in hell.

Therefore, for those already dead, our praying to other dead people is pointless.

And for the living, praying to dead people takes our eyes off the only mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, who is "is before all things," and by whom "all things consist."

"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." -- Matthew 4:10

I'm just pointing out that a lot of the problem is that we are doing two very different things with different goals.

The "goal" should always be to understand God's word and will. If we don't find a belief in the Scriptures, if we find a particular belief expressly denounced in the Scriptures, what is the prudent man to do? Keep searching for reasons to believe what Scripture denies? Where's the logic in that?

I see no point in "engaging" with you all

It's human nature to withdraw when our defense is weak. There is an alternative.

"As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him." -- Psalm 18:30

963 posted on 10/30/2007 10:03:02 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl; HarleyD
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. - Matt 22

This is the meaning of life, the purpose for our existence:

AMEN! How can anyone go wrong by believing that fact and living that fact?

And frankly, it's a lot easier to say we believe Matthew 22 than to really truly live it. Sometimes it takes a lot of years to realize just how difficult that proposition is, how much we are pulled in other directions, how little we actually acknowledge His hand in our lives.

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all." -- Ephesians 1:17-23

"far above...every name that is named..."

964 posted on 10/30/2007 10:13:25 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Mad Dawg; HarleyD
Thank you so much for sharing your insights and those beautiful passages of Scripture!

And for the living, praying to dead people takes our eyes off the only mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, who is "is before all things," and by whom "all things consist."

That is always the risk. Indeed, the risk is ever with us in this mortal life - that some thing or some one will become more important to us than God Himself - whether in a moment or a circumstance or throughout our lives.

It could be our "self," a child, a spouse, a friend - a possession, an illness, a situation, a contest, an idealogy, a theology, a thing - a religious figure dead or alive - and so on.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. – Matthew 16:24-25

The Great Commandment is a very hard teaching to live.

But truly, any thing or any one that we treasure above God - even in a moment - is an "idol" to us.

To GOD be the glory, not man.

965 posted on 10/30/2007 10:31:13 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And frankly, it's a lot easier to say we believe Matthew 22 than to really truly live it. Sometimes it takes a lot of years to realize just how difficult that proposition is, how much we are pulled in other directions, how little we actually acknowledge His hand in our lives.

Precisely so, dear sister in Christ!

Every day it seems I discover something that was too important to me. And oh, how grateful I am to God for pointing them out - one by one, as I can bear to face it.

Amazing grace.

Praise God!!!

966 posted on 10/30/2007 10:37:46 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: ears_to_hear; Salvation
"If marriage and sex are holy, why can Mary only be loved and honored if she never had sex?"

Mary is the mother of God. It is not about sex, it is about Jesus Christ, true God and true man.

Mt 1:21-23 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

1 Cor 7:28 "But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned."

Pray for me as I pray for you.

God bless.
967 posted on 10/30/2007 12:24:21 PM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: HarleyD
If you look above you never answered the question. You simply deflected the question with another question. Scripture tells us we are to pray to our heavenly Father. Scripture tells us we are to pray for others. Scripture does not say we are to pray to the dead.

That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You START by arguing the "Why not go straight to Jesus?", When I suggest it's for the same reason that you ask others to pray for you, THEN you immediately go to the "dead" question.

It seems to me the "direct access" question is independent of the "dead" question. It would pertain to intercession generally. Because in heaven or on earth, asking somebody else to pray for is, at least superficially, INdirect. It is just as indirect (at least in the petitioner's intention) when the request is made of a person on earth as it is when the request is made of a person in heaven. So IF it is okay, with respect to the "direct access" issue for St. Paul to ask someone to pray for him, then "direct access" is not the issue.

THEN we can move to the "not praying for the dead" v. Communion of the saints issue.

In the paragraph cited above you mention BOTH issues, but when the question first arose whoever first asked it ONLY mentioned the "direct access" side of it, and only weighed in with the "dead" side of it after the "direct access" side of it was addressed - AND never responded to the direct access reply side of it as such.

Here's an analogy. You say "It is okay to shoot someone who is committing felony battery on someone else."
I say,"No, we should let the police handle it.
Then You say,"But I saw you kit someone with a brick when you came upon a felony battery in process."
And I say, "But I didn't use a gun, but you said 'shoot.'"

Wouldn't you then say, "What do the police have to do with it then?"

I feel like I said it's okay to pray to the saints. Then you said, why not go directly to Jesus, And I said, but you ask for intercessions.And you say, but they're here on earth. So I'm left wondering where you stand on the intercession thing or why you brought it up, what does going directly to Jesus have to do with it, when the real sticking point seems to be Which humans we asked, not THAT we asked.

Now, the following is not a "what the Bible or the Church says" thing. I say, "If your intention is such and such, then I want to do this and that."
You say, "Our intention is NOT such and such, THEREFORE go ahead and do this and that."
I just don't understand this.

It is a discussion of understanding.

A discussion OF understanding, or a discussion SEEKING (as I said) understanding? If it's just "a frank exchange of views", it's not a discussion, at least as I use the word.

Look, if you're going to break into a thread about Padre Pio and say, "What your church teaches is wrong," Isn't it reasonable for me to want to know if you really know what my Church in fact teaches and what you think is wrong with it? If someone says, "Catholics think thus and so," while we're all saying, "No, we don't think that," what is going to come of that? If you're going to say that your understanding is based on Scripture, and I think mine is too, either directly or indirectly, then ... well let me ask what you think the next step, if any, is.

968 posted on 10/30/2007 1:05:48 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

It could evenbe our idea of God, or our way of relating to Him.


969 posted on 10/30/2007 1:08:22 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Indeed. Any thing or any one we love equal to or more than God is an "idol" to us.

To God be the glory!

970 posted on 10/30/2007 9:08:23 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Secret Agent Man

“Show me the verses”

Brother, what in the world would you have done had you lived in the first 400 years of Christian belief, when the sacred scriptures were not translated into your language and bound together in one book?

Do keep praying to Jesus, nobody here would discourage you from that.


971 posted on 03/04/2008 10:12:58 AM PST by SaintDismas (.)
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To: pillut48

Pillut,

I’m a convert to the Catholic faith from the bible belt. One thing I believe helps understanding is to realize that in Catholic teaching the saints are alive and with God. Understanding the full teaching of the Communion of Saints along with intercessory prayer is good way to frame the issue for those wishing to know.

thanks for your post.


972 posted on 09/23/2012 2:43:38 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: pillut48

I came here from a link on a different thread. And, just now, I realized I replied to post you made five years ago - and it was post 5 on a thread of close to thousand posts.

The internet is forever I guess. My apologies for the time warp.


973 posted on 09/23/2012 2:46:44 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Tolkien; PJBankard; scottjewell; ebb tide; Sirius Lee; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; JPG; ...
Praying to dead people is necromancy. Forbidden by God.
Saints are alive in Heaven with God.

The doctrine expressed in the second clause of the ninth article in the received text of the Apostles' Creed: "I believe . . . the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints". This... is found in:

the Gallican Liturgy of the seventh century (P.L., LXXII, 349, 597); in some letters of the Pseudo-Augustine (P.L., XXXIX, 2189, 2191, 2194), now credited to St. Caesarius of Arles (c. 543); in the "De Spiritu Sancto" (P.L., LXII, 11), ascribed to Faustus of Riez (c. 460); in the "Explanatio Symboli" (P.L., LII, 871) of Nicetas of Remesiana (c. 400); and in two documents of uncertain date, the "Fides Hieronymi", and an Armenian confession.

For more, see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04171a.htm

974 posted on 09/23/2012 2:48:32 PM PDT by narses
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To: tiki

Eternal Rest be granted to your mother and I sympathize for your loss.

It interests me that so many Christians are confused that humans somehow become angels. Angels are sparate beings and have their own heirarchy. Human are above angels in God’s sight because Jesus loved us so much He redeemed us - the fallen angels weren’t redeemed. I get annoyed in It’s A Wonderful Life when they get that wrong with every time the bell rings. Humans remain human and will be raised up on the last day.

PS - we can pray to angels for the intercession before God too - they are certainly alive!!!


975 posted on 09/23/2012 3:12:03 PM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

sparate = separate (mea culpa)


976 posted on 09/23/2012 3:14:07 PM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: Miss Didi
 
 
Padre Pio: The True Story
 
 

Padre Pio: The True Story [Paperback]

C. Bernard Ruffin (Author)
 
Padre Pio: The True Story focuses primarily on the post World War II era to the time of Padre Pio's death. It was during this time that an onscure Italian Capuchin priest attracted worldwide attention for his holiness as well as his mysterious stigmata.

This book is amazing. Read it!

977 posted on 09/23/2012 3:43:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: D-fendr
I came here from a link on a different thread. And, just now, I realized I replied to post you made five years ago - and it was post 5 on a thread of close to thousand posts.

That is known as "necro-posting", lol :).

As for the thread, anyone who has taken a college chemistry course would know that there are a lot quicker and much less painful ways to create a hole in the palm than using carbolic acid. The premise in the article is moronic, but I saw the usual buffoons eating it up. It's not like in the movies.

978 posted on 09/23/2012 4:02:06 PM PDT by Hacksaw (If I had a son, he'd look like George Zimmerman.)
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To: Salvation

I have read it...wonderful!


979 posted on 09/23/2012 4:16:06 PM PDT by Miss Didi ("After all...tomorrow is another day." Scarlett O'Hara, Gone with the Wind)
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Comment #980 Removed by Moderator

Comment #981 Removed by Moderator

To: Salvation
The fact there was no acid scars on Blessed Padre Pio after the stigmata disappeared proves they were real and a miracle since many observed the stigmata before and after

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/padre_pio.jpg

;

The weak in faith doubt miracles!

982 posted on 09/23/2012 7:07:42 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Hacksaw
"necro-posting"

Perfect description! Thank you for your reply.

983 posted on 09/23/2012 9:58:42 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Tzar

Didn’t Jesus say to St. Thomas, put your finger into my hand, put your hand into my side?

Why are people doubting the Bible?


984 posted on 09/23/2012 10:11:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #985 Removed by Moderator


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