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To: NYer
Once again, you're twisting it.

Jesus, being God Almighty can talk to anyone He wants to. And they were face to face. He was not praying to them for intercession.

No New Testament saint or Old Testament saint prayed to the dead.

Once again, Jesus is the only mediator and intercessor between God and man. If you deviate from that, you are in error.

You Catholics are saying that praying to Jesus is to no effect. We have to get Mary or somebody else to ask Jesus to do something we are asking.

If you are in Christ, you don't need any other intercessor. Are you a child of God or not?

You're acting like Jesus doesn't care unless Mary asks Him so. That is blaspheme.

60 posted on 10/25/2007 1:04:40 PM PDT by Tolkien (There are things more important than Peace. Freedom being one of those.)
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To: Tolkien; Campion
No New Testament saint or Old Testament saint prayed to the dead

They are alive in Christ. Catholics believe as do our non-Catholic Christian friends, that there is only one mediator between God and man and that mediator is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). We do believe, however, that there is nothing wrong with having a member of our church pray for us. There are many examples of this in the Bible. Paul asking for prayer, Paul praying for others, and scriptures encouraging us to pray for each other.

66 posted on 10/25/2007 1:17:33 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Tolkien

Gee, I wonder if our elder brothers feel this way about Christians. Since to them Jesus was just another false human prophet... who was slain btw (i’m sure plenty of them didn’t witness the resurrection, Jesus was taking care of business), so to them, we’re using a dead human guy that was a fake. Would you say they were right? How could you prove they weren’t? They would tell you to pray directly to God, why would you use Jesus.


68 posted on 10/25/2007 1:20:25 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Pray, Pray, Pray)
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To: Tolkien
"All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady."
-J.R.R. Tolkien
72 posted on 10/25/2007 1:24:13 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Tolkien
You Catholics are saying that praying to Jesus is to no effect.

I'm surprised at you, Tolkein.

This is untrue, and a slander against Catholics. It is contradicted by every possible source of Catholic teaching: the Bible, the Fathers, the Councils, the encyclicals, the catechisms, the daily practiuce of Catholics --- everything.

And it is against God's commandment for you to bear this false witness against your Catholic neighbor.

136 posted on 10/25/2007 5:32:56 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Tolkien

You have to understand Typology and History. All the Kings of Jerusalem did what ever their mother asked of them. Requests of the Jerusalem kings went through the Queen Mother. Read about Solomon. Read the list of Kings of Jerusalem, every time a king is named, its lists how long he reigned and who his mother was. Since Jesus is the true King of the Kingdom of Heaven He has a Queen Mother as well as with ALL past anointed Kings of Jerusalem. Jesus manifestation was done at the request of His Mother. She was the first true believer. She is the New Ark of the New Covenant. God fullfills His plan. Mary was the only one with faith enough to command the tree to uproot itself. She has more than enough Faith to fill unlimited mustard seeds. You can go directly to Jesus. I do too, but I ask his Mom to hold my hand and bring me to see Him.


379 posted on 10/26/2007 10:05:23 AM PDT by Grudgebringer
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