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To: Alamo-Girl
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Thanks so much for the Scriptures and commentary.

I perceive three separate events in the prophesy. The first, the wrath of God:

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Have often pondered such verses. It seems to me that the sun becoming dark is easily volcanoes and/or meteors and/or nukes. Certainly other possibilities are in God’s quiver but I think those are the most plausible.

The moon becoming as blood could certainly be because of a certain mixture and/or variety of dust in the air. The red full moon recently was certainly a sobering spectacle on that score. It was redder than I’ve ever seen it before, in my 60 years. But I think we haven’t seen how red it can appear, yet.

The stars falling as untimely figs is very descriptive, to me. It seems highly likely that refers to meteors falling—but in great abundance with LOTS of thuds and thumps. I’m reminded of big hail stones on a trailer roof . . . . Or fruit being blown off onto a tin roofed shop building in a strong wind. Living things are likely to be devastated from the thumps.

The Heavens rolled up or departed as a scroll when it is rolled together has long been mystifying. I have long felt that THAT action will be a great surprise to every living human on earth—probably most of all—to the scientists. Some have speculated rather confidently that it must refer to the actions of the atmosphere in an atmospheric nuclear bomb detonation. Plausible to a point, I suppose. But I think it’s much more dramatic. I think the description will turn out to have been literally amazingly accurate.

In a sense it seems preposterous to think so given the distances astronomers commonly work with. But do we really know as much as we think we know? If the earth is as God’s footstool . . . . whether purely metaphorically or both that and ‘literally’ in some mysterious sense . . . what if the whole kit and kabootle is a big encased snowflake globe on God’s mantle . . . what if we really finally see behind the BIG curtain? What do I know. But I still think that the Heavens rolled back like a scroll will turn out to be much more dramatic than a mere few nukes or some such.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? – Revelation 6:12-17

I’m seeing, speculating on something this reading I haven’t before . . . How is it that EVERY person hid themselves in the dens and the rocks . . . HIDE US FROM HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE . . . AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB? Not now is it that they hide . . . but how is it that all peoples everywhere KNOW who it is that is God and The Lamb? Supernatural revelation to their spirits and minds? Quite Plausible. Or, as might fit the verse—DO THEY LITERALLY SEE THE FATHER ON THE THRONE AND THE LAMB slain from the foundation of the world on His throne beside The Father? Is that PART of what the Heavens rolled back like a scroll might mean—seeing behind THAT curtain?

Certainly this passage makes abundantly clear that the events described are GOD’S WRATH. This is not some tin-horn dictator like Pol Pot shredding his serfs or his enemy’s serfs right and left. This is several orders of magnitude DIFFERENT!

Second, the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. – Revelation 19:11-16

I want to check out the MSG version on that passage . . .

MSG 11-16Then I saw Heaven open wide—and oh! a white horse and its Rider. The Rider, named Faithful and True, judges and makes war in pure righteousness. His eyes are a blaze of fire, on his head many crowns. He has a Name inscribed that's known only to himself. He is dressed in a robe soaked with blood, and he is addressed as "Word of God." The armies of Heaven, mounted on white horses and dressed in dazzling white linen, follow him. A sharp sword comes out of his mouth so he can subdue the nations, then rule them with a rod of iron. He treads the winepress of the raging wrath of God, the Sovereign-Strong. On his robe and thigh is written, King of kings, Lord of lords.

I don’t see any great revelatory differences in that translation . . . some subtle embellishments. The many crowns . . . plausible as stated but it seems likely that a host of angels would have to keep that many crowns stacked as The Lord navigated. Seems more plausible that they represent layers, regions, worlds, galaxies of authority over all reality. I agree that a long sharp sword literally coming out of his mouth would seem rather ungainly to walk about with. Seems much more plausible that every word he speaks will have the power and reality splitting impact of a fierce sword.

The bit with the horses has long fascinated me. A massive army of horses coming out of . . . space? Certainly God COULD/CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO—HIS SAND BOX. And, I realize that most folks have seen that as symbolic. But the bigger part of me expects it to be literally just like described. I happen to think God likes horses. And, like an artist who likes blue . . . and uses it a lot. I think God wants to use horses, BIG horses in that scene. We shall see. Heaven only knows emphatically.

Third, the new heaven and new earth:

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

Ahhhhh . . . this seems to be the era where the earth is moved out of it’s place . . . perhaps? Evidently? The sun and moon are not only needed . . . are not even around? What a glorious era, for sure!

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

The nations of them which are saved is an interesting phrase. Aren’t all ungodly nations obliterated at this point? In any case, the humble are now exalted in God’s eternal New Jerusalem, if I read it accurately.

And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. – Revelation 21:22-27

Sounds like pretty exclusive real estate, to me! What a day that will be! Ruling and reigning with our Lord!

Maranatha, Jesus!!!


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To: Quix
Thank you so much for your encouragements and for sharing your insights!

I have no speculation as to how these prophesies will be manifest to us from our perspective as mere mortals. I do however aver that it is important to be aware of current events (signs of the times) - comparing them with Scripture.

And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times? - Matt 16:3

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matt 24:42

For instance, science concludes there are 1080 particles in the known universe. And yet science also says that those 1080 particles could be multiply imaged from as little as a single particle in a fifth, time-line, dimension.

Science can deduce this much - but God knows "all that there is" all at once.

The very hairs on our head are numbered. We don't know them, but God does:

But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. - Matt 10:30

From our perspective "in" space/time, the extent of the physical creation is so vast that we can barely comprehend it at all.

The Creator is not bound by the Creation.

So if He chooses to literally roll up the cosmos like a scroll, He will. Ditto for Christ's coming on a horse.

Or, they could be metaphors. We'll see.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

5 posted on 11/02/2007 10:02:00 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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