Lutheran (ELCA) Ping!
Posted on 11/08/2007 8:12:52 AM PST by SmithL
Bishop Wayne Miller said Wednesday he won't discipline a congregation that's challenging the celibacy requirement for gay clergy in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
Resurrection Lutheran Church in Lake View plans to ordain a lesbian as associate pastor. Jen Rude says she won't pledge lifelong celibacy because she considers the rule discriminatory. In the ELCA, heterosexual pastors can marry.
Miller, head of the Metropolitan Chicago Synod, said he wants to "stay in conversation" with the congregation rather than censure or drive it out of the denomination.
(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...
I probably didn’t need to put ELCA in the headline, huh?
Its the deep concern for not creating a schism in the church that I find most touching.
Yet another demonination decides to toss out the Bible and create their own God. For libs God is created in man’s image.
Nothing new for the ELCA.
An invitation to ecclesiasitical anarchy.
Bishop Miller is free to ignore Contitutional violations in his Synod, as Bp. Rogness had in the St. Paul Area Synod at the ceremony for Anita Hill. He cannot, however, claim any license for a vitrual abdication of his office as springing from the “refrain from disciplining” action of the latest Churchwide Assembly. That misguided action pertains to discipline against rostered clergy, not congregations.
The expressway to hell.
The current PC culture is killing churches. The Bible says not to associate with those that continue to sin even after being confronted. It puts the whole congregation in a state of continual sin.
And so it begins.
So in point of fact, the rule does not exist.
Guys, it is time to leave the ELCA.
We are in the situation of Judges 21:25 "every man did what was right in his own eyes".
65 Synodical Bishops, 65 nuances ranging from enforcing the present policies to "see no evil, hear no evil" to "don't ask, don't tell."
While the Churchwide Assembly did not explicitly authorize "local option" the move to suspend discipline has de facto created antimonian ecclesial anarchy.
In process.....
In process.....
Ditto!!!!
»» In process.....
» Ditto!!!!
Done.
Yup! That was the basis on which I argued with several ELCA insiders on this forum that there indeed HAD been a de facto change in policy on "gay" ordination at the Chicago CWA. Being an orthodox Christian in an ultra-liberal ELCA synod, I know what I'm talking about!
And when ELCA mis-leaders and other insiders say "there was no change in policy," that is yet one more way in which they refuse to face the truth!!
That's what finally put me over the edge: realizing that by allowing my name to remain on the ELCA roster, I was effectively "endorsing" their policy! :O
I sleep better now...
And I agree, the putrid "PC culture" has been used very shrewdly by Satan to blunt the Church's effectiveness.
Hopefully a lot!
I have been very happy in the LCMS!
Tony, Did you find a LMCS congregation? I am a Lutheran, but I am also a Christian. The ELCA is no longer a Christian synod in my opinion.
I finally talked my wife into leaving the Methodist Church after we went there 8 years and returned to the denomination I was raised.
Even though the specific church we attended had some fine Christian folks the messages became more and more watered down and in the end we got a new pastor who IMO spoke some apostasy when he made the statement in a newsletter that God was not omnipotent and that the church needed to come to reckon with the fact the world has changed and they ( church ) needed to turn and eye to gay clergy and such as we are all God’s children.
I also did not like where my tithe was going when I read what the national and some regional conferences did.
Ha...perfect description!!! I would be LOL if only it wasn't so tragic and disgusting... 
Too often, I think faithful and sincere Christians in the pews are used like pawns by denominational bureaucrats: "Just send us your money..." It's no different than phony-baloney televangelists!
Thankfully more and more Christians are moving past that. It sounds like your house and mine have each moved beyond the reach of Socialist/Pagan "gaysbian" agenda-pushers of the NCC/WCC cartel :o
Just goes to show once again, the true Gospel is about salvation and sanctification—never about denomination.
Praise God!
I made the right decision but it made a few folks mad that we did it and when I politely explained why they got madder. My wife was very sad at first as it cost her a good friend but she realizes what the pay off will be for us and our children especially.
In my experience that's really no different from 5 years ago, when I first came to Christ and converted to Protestant Christianity to begin with!
Not that it's easy when going thru such a transition...but yeah, the ultimate reward awaits us whenever we put God first, above all other considerations.
May He richly bless you & your wife, and show you His favor for your faithfulness :)
Isn’t it interesting that the persecution of Christians is now taking place from within? Those of us who resolutely insist on worshiping at the altar of Christ are being attacked by those worshiping at the altar of moral relativeness!
I am just amazed at the people who I thought were on the same spiritual plane as I was objecting to me leaving and taking offense. They made statements like “you abandoned us” and the best one when I asked why they stay “we have to much invested in this church to leave it.” ???
Do they really see nothing wrong in that kind of statements by a supposed pastor and are they really so tied up in the social aspect that they lose sight of the real reason for worship?
One of the problems I had with the Methodists was you have little choice on your pastor and it is hard to remove one once he is there.
Wow! That's really pathetic. And petty. I'm sorry y'all had to go through that.
» Methodists ... you have little choice on your pastor and it is hard to remove one once he is there.
Hmm... Didn't know that. Is it because the UMC is hierarchical, w/bishops like the Anglican church it grew out of?
You have lived up to the proclamation, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!" Stand tall and know that you are following God's Word and providing us all with a positive role model and inspiration!
"Gott mit uns!"
I pray often that he doesn’t have so much invested in the ELCA, he ends up leaving Christ. I fear though, it will come to that.
That is really sad, isn't it?
If you think about it, this is just another example of idolatry: placing something (anything!) else before God.
Amen! Beautifully stated, Brother.
Yes. The pastors are assigned by the regional conference with little input from the local church members. Once the pastor is in place the church can get rid of him but it takes effort unless the pastor asks to leave.
The last pastor at the church before we left was there 8 years and that in his own words is unusual in Methodists circle for a pastor to be in one place that long.
My dad is a retired ELCA pastor. He and my mom will leave the ELCA because they agree that the ELCA leaders want to disobey the Bible. I’ll also join a Missouri Synod church in Jan. or Feb.
Absolutely. The danger of incremental liberalism is apparent in both churches and in the culture in general. What would have been considered unthinkable 50 years ago, is now acceptable. Open communion and women in the ministry are examples of creeping liberalism in the churches.
“I probably didn’t need to put ELCA in the headline, huh?”
It does help us to figure out which apostate mainline Protestant
denomination is the subject of the current outrage.
We left the ELCA for LCMS 14 years ago. I still thank God for delivering us to this truly Bible-based church. Thank you, Lord!!
Very insightful, GGrandma.
As we've all noted on various threads, the historic "mainline" Protestant bodies that bow at the altar of NCC/WCC are little more than social clubs or fraternal organizations, these days.
Folks stay in these denominations for the social aspects: business contacts, potluck dinners, etc. Maybe even to raise their children in a "Christian" environment—as long as it isn't too "preachy" or "judgmental"...
I guess the ELCA’s homosexual stance is a very wide stance.
I've posted this on similar discussions before, but it bears repeating:
From: “THE CONSERVATIVE REFORMATION AND ITS THEOLOGY as represented in the Augsburg Confession and in the history and literature of the Evangelical Lutheran Church” by Charles P. Krauth, D.D. (1871). [Note date]
"But the practical result of this principle is one on which there is no need of speculating; it works in one unvarying way. When error is admitted into the Church, it will be found that the stages of its progress are always three. It begins by asking toleration. Its friends say to the majority: You need not be afraid of us; we are few and weak; only let us alone; we shall not disturb the faith of others. The Church has her standards of doctrine; of course we shall never interfere with them; we only ask for ourselves to be spared interference with our private opinions. Indulged in this for a time, error goes on to assert equal rights. Truth and error are two balancing forces. The Church shall do nothing which looks like deciding between them; that would be partiality. It is bigotry to assert any superior right for the truth. We are to agree to differ and any favoring of the truth, because it is truth, is partisanship. What the friends of truth and error hold in common is fundamental. Anything on which they differ is “ipso facto” non-essential. Anybody who makes account of such a thing is a disturber of the peace of the church. Truth and error are two co-ordinate powers, and the great secret of church-statesmanship is to preserve the balance between them. From this point error soon goes on to its natural end, which is to assert supremacy. Truth started with tolerating; it comes to be merely tolerated and that only for a time. Error claims a preference for its judgments on all disputed points. It puts men into position, not as at first in spite of their departure from the Church’s faith, but in consequence of it. Their recommendation is that they repudiate that faith, and position is given them to teach others to repudiate it, and make them skillful in combating it." (pp. 195-196)
Yes, it does bear repeating and repeating and repeating.
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