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Single Word Change in Book of Mormon Speaks Volumes
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | November 8, 2007 | Peggy Fletcher Stack

Posted on 11/08/2007 5:23:05 PM PST by Colofornian

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To: sevenbak
The genetics were there, and who knows how many other European or Viking expeditions were here.

Know??

Who needs to KNOW??

Just PRAY about it!!!

101 posted on 11/09/2007 9:14:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Unfortunately, in your case, the two seem to go together.


102 posted on 11/09/2007 9:14:41 AM PST by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: sevenbak
Heyerdahl reported that this is reflected in the mummies found in South America - on the Pacific coast, in the desert sand of Paracas, there are large burial caves in which numerous mummies have been perfectly preserved.


"You know, if I were a single man, I might ask that mummy out. That's a good-looking mummy!"

—Bill Clinton, looking at "Juanita," a newly discovered Incan mummy on display at the National Geographic museum

103 posted on 11/09/2007 9:16:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fproy2222
My thoughts are that these are not ‘missionaries to Mormons’, they are hater/baiters.

Thanks for telling us what you think about a lot.

104 posted on 11/09/2007 9:17:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Old Mountain man
And they thought they were being so cleverly deceptive about it!

yup...

...we are going about, one word at a time, changing our message AMONG you.

105 posted on 11/09/2007 9:18:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fproy2222
Your name-calling certainly adds to the discussion...

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

106 posted on 11/09/2007 9:18:55 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (I have a tagline . I just don't think the forum police will allow me to use it. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!)
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To: Old Mountain man
Unfortunately, in your case, the two seem to go together.

You are right!

We are quite a pair; you and I.

107 posted on 11/09/2007 9:18:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39

Didja let yer cursor linger over the Clinton pix I posted??


108 posted on 11/09/2007 9:20:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

;)


109 posted on 11/09/2007 9:26:23 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (I have a tagline . I just don't think the forum police will allow me to use it. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!)
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To: colorcountry

He is not one.


110 posted on 11/09/2007 9:46:44 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

The BoM says that Mormon gave the record to his son Moroni who took it all the way up there to put it where it needed to be, writing the last few chapters as he did so.


111 posted on 11/09/2007 12:01:10 PM PST by Grig
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To: svcw

“I am still trying to figure out why blacks became ‘worthy’ or ‘human’ or what ever it was in the 1970s”

There were more than a few Protestant ministers in the 1800’s who argued that blacks had no soul and salvation was not extended to them. Sometimes they would dress up in white sheets and hood and lynch a black man or just burn a cross.

We never held such beliefs, we opposed slavery and didn’t force blacks out of our congregations to form their own ‘black churches’. They were not permitted to hold the priesthood for a time, just as the gospel was withheld from the Gentiles for a time, and the priesthood was once limited to only the Levities. There was never any reason revealed by God for the ban, but even back at the start of it BY said a day would come when it would be lifted, something incompatible with racist motives. The ban was lifted when God revealed it was time to lift it, and the members of the church welcomed it gladly. They did not resist it like bigots resisted the civil rights movement.

“if god ordained polygamy as a tenant of faith how come he changed his mind”

The BoM is clear that there are times God commands it and times he forbids it according to his wisdom and purposes.


112 posted on 11/09/2007 12:11:50 PM PST by Grig
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To: Ciexyz

“Interesting justification for changing a long-held theory.”

Why do you say that? Theories are subject to change as the available facts and our understanding of them change, that is perfectly normal.


113 posted on 11/09/2007 12:13:53 PM PST by Grig
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To: Colofornian

“So, the then “living prophet” was wrong, mistaken?”

You are talking about a personal opinion of his, not a revelation.


114 posted on 11/09/2007 12:17:11 PM PST by Grig
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To: colorcountry

“I remember reading this scripture and being told that the land was kept pure as the “land of promise” to Lehi and his family.”

What you were told is irrelevant, what is clear from the text is that the promise is conditional on their following God, and they didn’t do that if you read to the end so all bets were off.


115 posted on 11/09/2007 12:18:45 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig

Parsing seems to be the primary work of Mormonism apologists. In the sinkEmperor years it was called spinning, and only devious people thought it was cool.


116 posted on 11/09/2007 12:45:45 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Campion

“How do you suppose that happened”

No supposing is required, what happened is known. Whiteness is often used as a metaphor for purity and that is how it was intended there. Joseph Smith made that change in the 1840 edition to clarify the intended meaning, but subsequent editions of the BoM were based on the 1837 Edition so the change was accidentally dropped until the 80’s.


117 posted on 11/09/2007 12:51:12 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig

Well, LDS sure can dance.


118 posted on 11/09/2007 12:55:30 PM PST by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: Elsie

“So; if he’s CHANGING words that are printed IN YOUR SCRIPTURES, how is he speaking?”

You probably don’t like having facts intrude on a snappy sounding slam against us, but the introduction is not scripture. Just as Epistle Dedicatory in the KJV is not scrpiture.


119 posted on 11/09/2007 12:58:29 PM PST by Grig
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To: Ditter

“I am curious as to how Joseph Smith was able to translate the ancient (unknown) language on the golden tablets into English.”

God gave him the means and ability to do so.

“It must have taken him a long time.”

Actually, about 3 months time was spend in translating it, but it wasn’t consecutive.

“How could he lose the golden tablets before anyone else could see them?”

They were not lost, an angel of God took them back. Several people saw, touched, and lifted the plates.


120 posted on 11/09/2007 1:02:49 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig
You are talking about a personal opinion of his, not a revelation.

Nice cop-out. You know, I'd say a good chunk of God's revelations to prophets in OT times made it into God's Word, even if (& actually ESPECIALLY if) we've lost any books along the way. [IOW, at least the prophets were still faithful in recording those revelations; preservation was perhaps a matter beyond their stewardship]

Now compare that to Doctrine & Covenants. Exactly how many "fresh" post-Smith "prophets'" "revelations" are included in this LDS "Scripture?" [So few that it'd only take a one-second breeze to blow 'em away]

So, of course, the standard apologetic line you've been fed by the professional LDS apologists, "You are talking about a personal opinion of his, not a revelation" would then HAVE to apply to about 100% (rounded off) of what most LDS "prophets" have commmunicated. Why? Well, if these were important "revelations" from God (and frankly, I don't think what God has to say on matters is NOT important, do you?), why hold them back from worldwide present & future worldwide Mormons who might not have access to West-laden General Conference Web sites or subscriptions to Ensign Magazine?

So, tell me, then how DO you test any statement of an LDS "prophet"--given that most LDS "prophets" have NEVER couched what they've said as a "revelation" & of the few that have, only a sliver in 100 forests of what they've communicated would amount to that level of "OFFICIALDOM MORMONDOM?"

This is NOT simply a rhetorical question. It's vital. Because elsewise an LDS "prophet" could make 100 predictions about 2008...but never couch them as a "revelation" or "from the Lord"...and then your nice cop-out would apply to all 100 predictions.

121 posted on 11/09/2007 1:16:32 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
***Perhaps they will join you, and become converted to Judaism.***

Perhaps they could. Why don't you badger them until they do.

122 posted on 11/09/2007 1:18:04 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Maybe then THEY will tell me what sin Israel did that was so bad that God allowed the Holy temple to be destroyed and has not allowed it to be rebuilt in these last 2000 years. The Jews were expelled from the first holy temple for only seventy years. Why two thousand years.

Are you casting the first stone?

123 posted on 11/09/2007 1:21:05 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: colorcountry
It appears they are running from their own doctrine as fast as they can. Perhaps they will join you, and become converted to Judaism. They are very good at “law keeping.” They already believe they are adopted descendents of Ephraim and Manassah, so perhaps you are right.

Don't care whether or not they join me. Their religion is just as good as mine or yours.

124 posted on 11/09/2007 1:25:25 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Elsie
John Chapter 6:67-68 67. "You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve. 68. Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Ooh the pseudo mithraic writings are cutting me to the quick.

125 posted on 11/09/2007 1:37:02 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Oh yer one of those..... Any religion is just as good as another.

Alrighty then. It seems strange that you are here to defend a religion that is even MORE exclusive than Christianity. You DO know that Mormonism is the ONLY true church, right?

It’s been real......


126 posted on 11/09/2007 1:38:10 PM PST by colorcountry ("ever met a gang banger with a hunter safety card?" ~ Ted Nugent)
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To: Grig; svcw

Grig, I notice you don’t have a tagline...may I suggest “The BoM is clear that there are times God commands it and times he forbids it according to his wisdom and purposes.”...would save you lots of time in formulating non-answers.


127 posted on 11/09/2007 1:38:13 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (I have a tagline . I just don't think the forum police will allow me to use it. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!)
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To: colorcountry
Oh yer one of those..... Any religion is just as good as another.

Ya I'm one of those.

Alrighty then. It seems strange that you are here to defend a religion that is even MORE exclusive than Christianity. You DO know that Mormonism is the ONLY true church, right?

Ya I know all that stuff. I know enough to know that you believe you have the truth and Mormonism doesn't. Pot meet kettle.

It’s been real......

Ya a real pressure ah pleasure.

128 posted on 11/09/2007 1:46:19 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Colofornian; colorcountry; FastCoyote; MHGinTN; Pan_Yans Wife; svcw; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
This is NOT simply a rhetorical question. It's vital. Because elsewise an LDS "prophet" could make 100 predictions about 2008...but never couch them as a "revelation" or "from the Lord"...and then your nice cop-out would apply to all 100 predictions.

Answered your own question there very nicely, didn't you?

It's called "PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY" a phrase popularized during the Clinton Administration, . When the goals of the GAs in Salt Lake City change, or political correctness becomes troublesome, the "non-revelations" can be changed in a twinkle of the eye.

And, because the LDS membership believes that "When the Leaders speak, the thinking has been done" WE are supposed to give credence to the same arguments by the apologists here.

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

129 posted on 11/09/2007 2:09:35 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (I have a tagline . I just don't think the forum police will allow me to use it. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!)
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To: Grig

But not physically, according to their testimony.


130 posted on 11/09/2007 2:47:42 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Grig
They were not permitted to hold the priesthood for a time, just as the gospel was withheld from the Gentiles for a time, and the priesthood was once limited to only the Levities.

Oh??

When was that??



 Isaiah 9:1-2
 1.  Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan--
 2.  The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
 

  Isaiah 42:6-7
 6.  "I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,
 7.  to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.
 

 Isaiah 49:5-6
 5.  And now the LORD says-- he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD and my God has been my strength--
 6.  he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."
 

 Isaiah 49:22-23
  This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.
 

 
 Matthew 4:13-14
 13.  Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali--
 14.  to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah: =========================

131 posted on 11/09/2007 2:54:40 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Grig
Whiteness is often used as a metaphor for purity and that is how it was intended there.

Dang!!

Now you are MINDREADING ol' Joe!!!!


Joseph Smith made that change in the 1840 edition to clarify the intended meaning, but subsequent editions of the BoM were based on the 1837 Edition so the change was accidentally dropped until the 80’s.

So much for PROOFREADING!!!!

(Let's SEE that 1840 edition)

132 posted on 11/09/2007 2:56:40 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Grig
You probably don’t like having facts intrude on a snappy sounding slam against us, but the introduction is not scripture.

Then the intro should be TAKEN OUT instead of MISLEADING people into BELIEVEING something that isn't true.

133 posted on 11/09/2007 2:57:44 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Grig
God gave him the means and ability to do so.

TADA!

134 posted on 11/09/2007 2:58:10 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Are you casting the first stone?

Nah; merely pointing out that the Jews CANNOT worship G*D like they are supposed to, for the TEMPLE is GONE!

135 posted on 11/09/2007 2:59:22 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: colorcountry

Never argue against a fellow’s ScreenName...


136 posted on 11/09/2007 3:00:12 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Perfect answer.


137 posted on 11/09/2007 3:02:06 PM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: Grig
Joseph Smith made that change in the 1840 edition to clarify the intended meaning

Of course that explanation is almost impossible for most of us to verify.

However, this webpage, written by LDS apologists specifically concerning this issue, does not mention the change of "white" to "pure" at all, and in particular not in reference to changes in the 1840 edition.

138 posted on 11/09/2007 3:12:55 PM PST by Campion
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To: Elsie
Nah; merely pointing out that the Jews CANNOT worship G*D like they are supposed to, for the TEMPLE is GONE!

What is this? tag team? Let's let G-d decide what worship he accepts. You're a mere human.

139 posted on 11/09/2007 4:03:33 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Elsie
Never argue against a fellow’s ScreenName...

Speaking of screen names, have you been milked lately?

140 posted on 11/09/2007 4:05:13 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Elsie

Well, when one lie doesn’t work, you try another.


141 posted on 11/09/2007 4:16:05 PM PST by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Elsie

Please tell me you are not also a thief.

When did you stop beating your wife?


142 posted on 11/09/2007 4:16:51 PM PST by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Elsie

Please sir, could you give your qualifications to instruct the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints on what should be in the introduction of any book whatsoever that is published by the Church?

Isn’t it true that your opinion on the matter is so much Bravo Sierra?


143 posted on 11/09/2007 4:20:27 PM PST by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: Old Mountain man

she’s not a sir. a free fyi. :-)


144 posted on 11/09/2007 4:21:53 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Grig; Ditter

***They were not lost, an angel of God took them back. Several people saw, touched, and lifted the plates.****

But when the witnesses were pressed about seeing the plates they admitted what they ACTUALLY saw was what appeared to be a book on a table, and the book was COVERED with a tablecloth.

another said it this way, “When a person who you know cannot tell a lie, and that person tells you of a certain city you have never been to, you can WITH THE EYE OF FAITH actually see that city.”

So, by their own testimonies later, they NEVER saw the golden plates.


145 posted on 11/09/2007 4:25:28 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Colofornian

founder Joseph Smith


This is where Christians have trouble with LDS.

The “founder” of Christianity is the Lord Jesus not joe smith from NY


146 posted on 11/09/2007 4:27:22 PM PST by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

****Perhaps they could. Why don’t you badger them until they do.***

Instead of badgering them, why don’t YOU tell us why the Jews have not had a Temple or a sacrifice for sin in the last 2000 years.

Inquiring minds want to know!


147 posted on 11/09/2007 4:28:21 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Why do you worship a human as God. Paganism.
Inquiring minds want to know.


148 posted on 11/09/2007 4:30:28 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Whatever. Elsie told Grig that Elsie was a male. Guess you can’t trust Elsie to tell the truth about anything.


149 posted on 11/09/2007 4:48:29 PM PST by Old Mountain man (Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice!)
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To: restornu

The polygamist Mormon church president who died in 1945 named Heber J. Grant said, “Where are the men who have assailed this work?” I simply ask, “where are the men who are descendants of Fahter Lehi?” Nobody knows if any exist, period.


150 posted on 11/09/2007 5:32:24 PM PST by Degaston
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