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1 posted on 11/08/2007 5:23:07 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

***In recent years, many LDS scholars have come to share Butler’s belief in what is known as the “limited geography” theory. By this view, the Nephites and Lamanites restricted their activities to portions of Central America, which would explain their absence from the general American Indian genetics. ****

So how did this “book” end up buried in a hill in New York if it only pertains to Central America.


2 posted on 11/08/2007 5:28:53 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: greyfoxx39; FastCoyote; MHGinTN; Pan_Yans Wife; svcw; Enosh; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; ...

FI Ping


3 posted on 11/08/2007 5:29:43 PM PST by colorcountry ("ever met a gang banger with a hunter safety card?" ~ Ted Nugent)
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To: Colofornian

The winds of change are blowing through the LDS Church. Perhaps one day, they will truly be one of us and we can call them Christian.

At this pace, it will take another 1000 years, but what the heck!


5 posted on 11/08/2007 5:31:29 PM PST by colorcountry ("ever met a gang banger with a hunter safety card?" ~ Ted Nugent)
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To: Colofornian
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe founder Joseph Smith unearthed a set of gold plates from a hill in upperstate New York in 1827 and translated the ancient text into English. The account, known as The Book of Mormon, tells the story of two Israelite civilizations living in the New World. One derived from a single family who fled from Jerusalem in 600 B.C. and eventually splintered into two groups, known as the Nephites and Lamanites.

Once upon a time, [insert fairy tale here]...

6 posted on 11/08/2007 5:33:10 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: Colofornian

Dum dum dum DUM dum ...


7 posted on 11/08/2007 5:33:16 PM PST by ikka
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To: Colofornian

“After testing the DNA of more than 12,000 Indians, though, most researchers have concluded that the continent’s early inhabitants came from Asia across the Bering Strait.”

Oh PA-LEEZE! These same “researchers” would probably tell us after extensive “testing” that the planet is MORE than 6,000 years old!

(extreme sarcasm alert)


9 posted on 11/08/2007 5:37:30 PM PST by Grunthor (Liberals need to be reminded that The Holy Bible is more than just Godís opinion.)
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To: Colofornian

I am still trying to figure out why blacks became ‘worthy’ or ‘human’ or what ever it was in the 1970s and how if god ordained polygamy as a tenant of faith how come he changed his mind, when it meant Utah could not become a state.
It is all sooooooooo confusing.


10 posted on 11/08/2007 5:37:51 PM PST by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: Colofornian
...as scholarship progresses.

Interesting justification for changing a long-held theory.

13 posted on 11/08/2007 5:40:20 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: All
In 1971, Church President Spencer W. Kimball said that Lehi, the family patriarch, was "the ancestor of all of the Indian and Mestizo tribes in North and South and Central America and in the islands of the sea." After testing the DNA of more than 12,000 Indians, though, most researchers have concluded that the continent's early inhabitants came from Asia across the Bering Strait.

So, the then "living prophet" was wrong, mistaken? (If he was off-base on this, where else?)

18 posted on 11/08/2007 5:48:35 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Ed Milligan, Sioux scholar and anthropologist, had nothing to do with the Mormon faith as far as I know. He did, however, point out when I was his student the very logical observation that the ruins of ancient American civilization were quite advanced from Peru to central Mexico and got far more rudimentary as one moved northward.

While this observation neither "proves" nor "denies" that all native peoples in the Americas came across the Bering land bridge as conventional theory teaches, it would be the first time that civilization becomes more advanced the further away the original settlers move from their point of entry.

Then, there is the strange case of Kennewick Man, a caucasiod skeleton older than the native peoples in the area of present-day Washington State.

Like the so-called "truth" about Gorebal warming, majority vote or concensus does not determine actual scientific fact. A statement that all native peoples to America came across the Bearing Straight is as silly as a claim that none of them did. As Mark Twain said "No generalizaton is worth a damn, including this one."

39 posted on 11/08/2007 7:43:19 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: Colofornian
The book's current introduction, added by the late LDS apostle, Bruce R. McConkie in 1981, includes this statement: "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."

The new version, seen first in Doubleday's revised edition, reads, "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians."

Ping for later

53 posted on 11/08/2007 8:47:04 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, for it is an evil time." - Amos 5:13)
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54 posted on 11/08/2007 11:17:57 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, November 8, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Colofornian
In recent years, many LDS scholars have come to share Butler's belief in what is known as the "limited geography" theory. By this view, the Nephites and Lamanites restricted their activities to portions of Central America, which would explain their absence from the general American Indian genetics.

Yeh, right!!! more like activities restricted to the "limited geography" of Joseph Smith's imagination --

57 posted on 11/09/2007 3:54:26 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Colofornian

The LDS Church has changed a single word in its introduction to the Book of Mormon, a change observers say has serious implications for commonly held LDS beliefs about the ancestry of American Indians.

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe founder Joseph Smith unearthed a set of gold plates from a hill in upperstate New York in 1827 and translated the ancient text into English. The account, known as The Book of Mormon, tells the story of two Israelite civilizations living in the New World. One derived from a single family who fled from Jerusalem in 600 B.C. and eventually splintered into two groups, known as the Nephites and Lamanites.

The book's current introduction, added by the late LDS apostle, Bruce R. McConkie in 1981, includes this statement: "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."

The new version, seen first in Doubleday's revised edition, reads, "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians."

LDS leaders instructed Doubleday to make the change, said senior editor Andrew Corbin, so it "would be in accordance with future editions the church is printing."

The change "takes into account details of Book of Mormon demography which are not known," LDS spokesman Mark Tuttle said Wednesday.

It also steps into the middle of a raging debate about the book's historical claims.

 


Ya think???



Oh... in my BoM 1981 edition, on the page with the introduction (4th sheet from front) has these lines...
 
"The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved.
 
Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I told the brethern that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."
 
Then I find, just 4 pages past that, under A BRIEF EXPLANATION ABOUT  THE BOOK OF MORMON, I found this at the bottom of the page...
 
About this edition: Some minor errors in the text have been perpetrated in past editions of the Book of Mormon.  This edition contains corrections that seem appropriate to bring the material into conformity with prepublication manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.
 
 

Interesting and ever changing!

58 posted on 11/09/2007 4:50:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
In 1971, Church President Spencer W. Kimball said that Lehi, the family patriarch, was "the ancestor of all of the Indian and Mestizo tribes in North and South and Central America and in the islands of the sea."
59 posted on 11/09/2007 4:52:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
"I have always felt free to disavow the language of the [Book of Mormon's] introduction, footnotes and dictionary, which are not part of the canonical scripture," said Barney, on the board of FAIR, a Mormon apologist group. "These things can change as the scholarship progresses and our understanding enlarges. This suggests to me that someone on the church's scripture committee is paying attention to the discussion."

And many of the LDS organization's 'apologists' ...

...feel free to disavow most ANYTHING that upsets their tight little world view.

60 posted on 11/09/2007 4:53:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe founder Joseph Smith unearthed a set of gold plates from a hill in upperstate New York in 1827...

Jeesh....hearing that always makes me cringe.

It's upstate New York, not upperstate...no matter how far "up" you are. You can be a quarter mile north of Pennsylvania, like near where I grew up, and it's still "upstate."

65 posted on 11/09/2007 5:05:13 AM PST by CT-Freeper (Said the frequently disappointed but ever optimistic Mets fan.)
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To: Colofornian

Will this hurt Romney’s chances with the native American vote?


77 posted on 11/09/2007 6:03:24 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Colofornian
This is going to be a hit and run. I don’t have time to start a new argument, let alone catch up on old ones. But, I would be remiss if I didn’t add a couple points to the Indian heritage discussion, and then I will leave again to let you do with it what you will. Use is to your enlightenment, or detriment, I suspect the latter. I’m certain it won’t be pretty.
________________________________________________________________________

1. The conquistador, Pedro Pizarro, reported in his account of the great Spanish invasion of South America in the 1500s, that while the masses of Andes Indians were small and dark, the members of the ruling Inca family were tall and had whiter skins than the Spaniards themselves. He talks of them having blue eyes, corn-blonde hair and white skins. (Heyerdahl, ibid., page 351).

Heyerdahl reported that this is reflected in the mummies found in South America - on the Pacific coast, in the desert sand of Paracas, there are large burial caves in which numerous mummies have been perfectly preserved.

Some of the mummies were found to have the stiff black hair of the Indians, while others, which have been kept in the same conditions, have red, often chestnut-colored hair, “silky and wavy, as found amongst Europeans, they have long skulls and remarkably tall bodies. Hair experts have shown by microscopic analysis, that the red hair has all the characteristics that ordinarily distinguish a Nordic hair type from that of Mongols or American Indians.” (Heyerdahl, ibid., pages 351, 352).

Pizarro asked who the white skinned redheads were. The Inca Indians replied that they were the last descendants of the Viracochas. The Viracochas, they said, were a divine race of White men with beards. They were so like the Spanish that the Europeans were called Viracochas the moment they came to the Inca Empire. The Incas thought they were the Viracochas who had come sailing back across the Pacific. (Heyerdahl, ibid., page 253).
When the Spaniards came to Lake Titicaca, up in the Andes, they found the mightiest ruins in all South America - Tiahuanaco. They saw a hill reshaped by man into a stepped pyramid, classical masonry of enormous blocks, beautifully dressed and fitted together, and numerous large statues in human form. They asked the Indians to tell them who had left these enormous ruins.

The well known chronicler, Cieza de Leon, was told in reply that these things had been made long before the Incas came to power. They were made by White and bearded men like the Spaniards themselves. (Heyerdahl, ibid., page 253).

The White men had finally abandoned their statues and gone with the leader, Con-Ticci Viracocha, first up to Cuzco, and then down to the Pacific. They were given the Inca name of Viracocha, or “sea foam’, because they were white skinned and vanished like foam over the sea.

Also, here’s an old FR discussion on some of this stuff:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1714661/posts

___________________________________________________________________________

2. Both Daniel Boone and Lewis and Clark said they encountered blue eyed blond Indians during their explorations, mapping excursions.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2g5_u2AK9rcC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=daniel+boone+%22blue+eyed%22+natives&source=web&ots=vic-UqyaDQ&sig=o3FNct0SVXg2D7LoKTTYzP3HS6w#PPP1,M1

____________________________________________________________________

All of this of course is only one piece is a huge genetic puzzle. The Book of Mormon clearly states that there were many nephites who denied their faith and fled southward and joined in with the armies of the lamanites in the final battle. The genetics were there, and who knows how many other European or Viking expeditions were here. We are arrogant if we think Columbus was the first one here from the old world.

88 posted on 11/09/2007 7:55:54 AM PST by sevenbak (Wise men still seek Him.)
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To: Colofornian

founder Joseph Smith


This is where Christians have trouble with LDS.

The “founder” of Christianity is the Lord Jesus not joe smith from NY


146 posted on 11/09/2007 4:27:22 PM PST by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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