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Chuck Smith’s Prophetic Pronouncements Under the Microscope
American Vision ^ | 11/19/2007 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 11/19/2007 9:57:14 AM PST by topcat54

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To: XeniaSt; Blogger; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Lord_Calvinus; tabsternager
Join me in prayer that the preterists discover and acquire the lovingkindness of Yah'shua

"The dispensationalist stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this preterist. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess, and I know that you are coming back real soon now to rebuild the temple and offer sacrifices once again.'"

Amen.

51 posted on 11/19/2007 5:33:58 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Alex Murphy; Blogger; XeniaSt
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't drop in, make unsubstantiated remarks like this:
Soon isn’t an issue. It is soon. Observing the times, it is soon. Soon could be 100 years. Soon could be tomorrow. We should always be ready and watching.

On June 25th, 2008 at 12:00 AM. That’s a problem.

Shavuot on June 9th, 2008 would be a better date.

And then get all defensive when you ask for a little support for the comment from the Bible.

52 posted on 11/19/2007 5:39:36 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; XeniaSt; Blogger

Well I like X, I see him around and he always brings a smile to my face. June 9, 2008 is Shavuot, the anniversary of the the day that God met the Israelis on the mountain and He gave them the Torah.


53 posted on 11/19/2007 5:48:41 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: topcat54
I have given you biblical support before topcat. You weren't interested in hearing then and I won't bother with you now. Perhaps a dictionary will help though. soon 1. within a short period after this or that time, event, etc.: We shall know soon after he calls. 2. before long; in the near future; at an early date: Let's leave soon. 3. promptly or quickly: He came as soon as he could. 4. readily or willingly: I would as soon walk as ride. 5. early in a period of time; before the time specified is much advanced: soon at night; soon in the evening. 6. Obsolete. immediately; at once; forthwith. —Idioms 7. sooner or later, eventually: Sooner or later his luck will run out. 8. would sooner, to prefer to: I would sooner not go to their party. Compare rather (def. 8). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE sōna; c. OHG sān, Goth suns]
54 posted on 11/19/2007 5:55:10 PM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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To: XeniaSt
Join me in prayer that the preterists discover and acquire the lovingkindness of Yah'shua

You think that erroneous eschatology cuts someone off from the "lovingkindness of Yah'shua"?

55 posted on 11/19/2007 6:22:02 PM PST by Campion
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To: Blogger
I have given you biblical support before topcat. You weren't interested in hearing then and I won't bother with you now.

Give a thought to this: advocates of other eschatological positions, to wit amilenarians, postmils, non-dispensationalist historic premils and orthodox preterists seem to be able to get along with each other just fine. Throw a consistent dispensationalist in the mix and the battle line gets drawn right there.

Why is that?

I have given you biblical support before topcat.

And we've given mountains of scripture right back to you-all (not saying you in particular, rather DPs in general). The assumptions we're using are different.

I weary of the discussion, but (as I've said elewhere) dispensationalism is in danger of getting the gospel wrong. It is important.

56 posted on 11/19/2007 7:08:00 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalism -- threat or menace?")
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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Blogger
Shavuot, the anniversary of the the day that God met the Israelis on the mountain and He gave them the Torah.

Shavuot in the Greek LXX is Pentecost, when the Ru'ach HaKodesh
breathed on the twelve and started the outreach to the Nations
with YHvH's salvation.
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
57 posted on 11/19/2007 7:50:31 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Campion
You think that erroneous eschatology cuts someone off from the "lovingkindness of Yah'shua"?

No, I don't know.

But my discernment tells me that I don't see much chesed
demonstrated amongst that belief system.


58 posted on 11/19/2007 7:55:23 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Blogger; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg
I have given you biblical support before topcat.

Sorry, I must have missed it. What I as looking for specifically from the Bible is what signs of the times leads you to conclude that Christ’s return may be 100 years or so in the future.

What I was referring to in the last post was the 2008 date, and the biblical support for such an idea.

Oh well, maybe I’m asking for too much.

59 posted on 11/19/2007 8:23:10 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; XeniaSt; Blogger
Well I like X, I see him around and he always brings a smile to my face. June 9, 2008 is Shavuot, the anniversary of the the day that God met the Israelis on the mountain and He gave them the Torah.

I like everyone here. Or, to quote Michael Corleone, "Nothing personal, strictly business."

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacle among us." The same Yahweh who spoke from Sinai has come down to dwell among His people. Jesus is the Torah of God. He is the perfect Temple and the new Israel wherein His people dwell with all the righteous from all ages. "You have come to Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem."

60 posted on 11/19/2007 8:29:07 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Blogger; topcat54
Ping. Happy?

I was happy before - and still am!

61 posted on 11/19/2007 9:08:16 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, for it is an evil time." - Amos 5:13)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Lee N. Field; topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg

His wife looks kind of elfin, IMHO, and that of Lady Gamecock...


62 posted on 11/20/2007 12:52:59 AM PST by Gamecock (Gamecock: Declared anathema by the Council of Trent!)
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To: irishtenor
I am all the time offering burnt sacrifices of chicken and ribs to the family on my gas BBQ. Does that count?

So you are a member of PETA*?

*Presbyterians Eating Tasty Animals

63 posted on 11/20/2007 12:54:57 AM PST by Gamecock (Gamecock: Declared anathema by the Council of Trent!)
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To: Blogger; topcat54; XeniaSt
On June 25th, 2008 at 12:00 AM. That’s a problem.

GOOD GRIEF!!! That's my 20th wedding anniversary. Strangely poetic. :)

64 posted on 11/20/2007 1:01:00 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Gamecock

She reads the newspaper well


65 posted on 11/20/2007 1:03:59 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: XeniaSt; Blogger; topcat54
Or June 15th, 2008 depending how you reckon.

GOOD GRIEF!!! That's my 42nd birthday. This is getting TOO weird. :)

66 posted on 11/20/2007 1:07:41 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
That's my 42nd birthday

I am now convinced!

67 posted on 11/20/2007 4:00:14 AM PST by Gamecock (Gamecock: Declared anathema by the Council of Trent!)
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To: XeniaSt; Blogger; topcat54

Our apologies to y’all over here on this thread. The Preterists were getting their lunches handed to them on another thread and like always, some of them had to run over here to vent their frustrations —


68 posted on 11/20/2007 4:04:11 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Blogger
They shouldn’t have.

2 Peter 3:3-9 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days

But you do realize that the "last days" began on the Day of Pentecost?

69 posted on 11/20/2007 4:25:34 AM PST by A2J (Love Jesus...hate "church.")
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To: topcat54

And this from the man who has single-handedly built a nepotistic empire that is rife with immorality.


70 posted on 11/20/2007 4:27:01 AM PST by A2J (Love Jesus...hate "church.")
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To: topcat54

If that is your issue, reread my post. I was saying naming a date and time is NOT a good idea.

As to the signs of the times, one word. Israel. I know you reject this. I can’t help that. But, Israel is why I believe that He truly is coming soon. Is it within the next 100 years? I believe so, but could be wrong. It would not surprise me to hear the trumpet sound this afternoon.


71 posted on 11/20/2007 5:02:02 AM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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To: A2J

I am well aware of what the book of Acts says.

Why do you have an emergent church tagline?

The church is Christ’s bride. How would you like if someone said to you “Gee, A2J, I really like you but I find your spouse disgusting.” Probably wouldn’t feel to good. I doubt Jesus feels good about it either.


72 posted on 11/20/2007 5:05:37 AM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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To: Uncle Chip; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; XeniaSt; Blogger
Our apologies to y’all over here on this thread. The Preterists were getting their lunches handed to them on another thread and like always, some of them had to run over here to vent their frustrations —

You're not speaking of the thread where you have been incapable of exegeting a single passage of Scripture.

If that's what you call getting your lunch handed to you, then I'm all for it.

Maybe you can give these guys over here a helping hand.

What date are you picking for Jesus' secret rapture?

73 posted on 11/20/2007 6:13:21 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: Blogger; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg
If that is your issue, reread my post. I was saying naming a date and time is NOT a good idea.

If you can't pick a date, then why the 100 year comment? Sounds like a form of loose date-setting to me. Is this one of those "Jesus said we couldn't know the day or hour but that doesn’t mean we can't know the century" excuses?

As far as modern, secular Israel is concerned, it bears absolutely no resemblance to Israel of the Bible. Why you would hang your hat on this "sign" beyond understanding. Perhaps it’s all you have been told for the last few decades from the pop prophecy preachers like Chuck Smith. That must make it true.

74 posted on 11/20/2007 6:20:00 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54
You're not speaking of the thread where you have been incapable of exegeting a single passage of Scripture.

"exegeting"??? -- is that what you call that rambling nonsense of yours??? You give that word a bad name.

If that's what you call getting your lunch handed to you, then I'm all for it. Maybe you can give these guys over here a helping hand.

I know that you are angry at us for forcing so much scripture down your throats over there, but please don't come over here to take it out on Chuck Smith or others for possibly overstating some things a little. His words are not scripture.

You seem to spend more time remembering what he wrote than you do remembering what Jeremiah, and Ezekiel and the other prophets and apostles wrote. And therein is your problem.

75 posted on 11/20/2007 6:59:21 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54

Now, that’s classic.


76 posted on 11/20/2007 7:41:18 AM PST by tabsternager
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To: Uncle Chip; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager; Gamecock; Lee N. Field; Campion
"exegeting"???

Yes, I realize that is a difficult concept to grasp when you are used to just throwing out OT prophecies with the expectation that folks will adopt the fantasy "literal" interpretation, ignore all the NT writers had to say about the subject, and be done with it.

When this is what we get from folks like Chuck Smith and Jack Van Impe, I guess we cannot expect better from the grunts.

77 posted on 11/20/2007 8:07:10 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54
Yes, I realize that is a difficult concept to grasp when you are used to just throwing out OT prophecies with the expectation that folks will adopt the fantasy "literal" interpretation, ignore all the NT writers had to say about the subject, and be done with it.

Oh -- you mean like Luke here:

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken".[Luke 24:25]

78 posted on 11/20/2007 8:26:01 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager; Gamecock; Lee N. Field; Campion
"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken".[Luke 24:25]

You confuse what the prophets spoke with the dispensationalist interpretation, which includes such nonsense as gaps of multiple thousands of years and ancient implements of war (spears, horses, bows and arrows) being "literally" understood as cruise missiles and nuclear bombs.

You also forget that Jesus in Luke 24 was demonstrating how the prophets were all speaking of Him, not secular Israel thousands of years in the future.

79 posted on 11/20/2007 9:02:31 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: XeniaSt; Campion
But my discernment tells me that I don't see much chesed demonstrated amongst that belief system.

Depends on your standard.

1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." (Matthew 7)
Perhaps all the Yah'shua and chesed and other unnecessary transliterations give you a sense of superiority over us gentiles.
80 posted on 11/20/2007 9:17:33 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54
You also forget that Jesus in Luke 24 was demonstrating how the prophets were all speaking of Him, not secular Israel thousands of years in the future.

Ohh -- you mean Him whose prophet said this about Him:

"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.... Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness." [Zechariah 8]

81 posted on 11/20/2007 9:44:59 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54; Campion
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.

Perhaps all the Yah'shua and chesed and other unnecessary transliterations give you a sense of superiority over us gentiles.

Have you never read the book of John which is all about chesed.

You seem to cherry pick your verses.

Yah'shua commends us to judge :

NAsbU John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
82 posted on 11/20/2007 9:45:56 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt
as well as commands us.

Just for your understanding, the command was given on G-d's Holy Feast of Sukkot.

Which is about living in temporary dwellings until we reach the promised land.

shalom b'shem Yah'shua

83 posted on 11/20/2007 9:51:29 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt
Have you never read the book of John which is all about chesed.

Which he wrote in, you know, Greek.

84 posted on 11/20/2007 10:03:07 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalism -- threat or menace?")
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To: Lee N. Field
Which he wrote in, you know, Greek

Yes. As Yah'shua was extending his salvation to the gentiles,
He instructed that his Word be written in the lingua franca of the day and for the next 300 years so all gentiles would be saved.
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
85 posted on 11/20/2007 10:08:12 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: topcat54
You also forget that Jesus in Luke 24 was demonstrating how the prophets were all speaking of Him, not secular Israel thousands of years in the future.

AMEN!

86 posted on 11/20/2007 10:59:21 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Uncle Chip; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager; Gamecock; Lee N. Field; Campion
"You also forget that Jesus in Luke 24 was demonstrating how the prophets were all speaking of Him, not secular Israel thousands of years in the future."

Ohh -- you mean Him whose prophet said this about Him:

"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem:

Exactly.

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12)
All you need to do is read the Old in the light of the New, and Christ’s sacrifice for His people Israel, and it will all make sense.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)
Dispensationalism will not get you to the truth.
87 posted on 11/20/2007 11:36:15 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: XeniaSt; Campion; Lee N. Field
Have you never read the book of John which is all about chesed.

There you go again. Do you mean lovingkindness? Chesed is not in my Greek.

You seem to cherry pick your verses.

The feeling is mutual.

Yah'shua commends us to judge :

Then I hope you will apply the same standard to you and your futurist friends.

88 posted on 11/20/2007 11:43:11 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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To: topcat54
All you need to do is read the Old in the light of the New, and Christ’s sacrifice for His people Israel, and it will all make sense.

I had one on FR (I can dig it up if I have to) flat out tell me that the way Jesus, the gospel writers, Paul, etc. (the writers of the NT) interpreted scripture didn't matter, that what mattered was how the original recipients would have interpreted the scripture.

[shakes head sadly]

What was Jesus teaching His people between resurrection and ascension? How the scriptures pointed to Him, or the schedule for him whuppin' the Romans and setting up the earthly kingdom?

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)

OT language about Israel applied directly to the Christian ekklesia.

89 posted on 11/20/2007 11:48:55 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalism -- threat or menace?")
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To: topcat54; blue-duncan

Give me a break topcat! Take your straw man and kick it elsewhere.

Effectively what you are saying when you dismiss God’s future for national Israel that God was LYING when He said He would bring Israel back into the land again and they would never again be cast out. You are saying that just because the Jews have come from every nation from every direction on earth that this in no way fulfills Bible prophecy. You ignore any clarifications, such as while the dry bones are coming together as Ezekiel 37 predicted, that there is still some work to be done until they are made fully acceptable in Christ before the Lord. We see this in Romans 11. We see this in Zechariah 12-14. However, those of your particular point of view might as well just cut the book of Zechariah OUT of your Bible. Apparently dispensationalists and Jews are the only ones who have any use for it anyway. This has been my take-away from what conversations we, and others, have had on the end-times threads. There is no discussing these issues with you or several others. (And yes, you are one of the most frustrating people to talk to because you are almost ALWAYS negative and almost never willing to listen to what is actually being said). Rather than have a rational discussion where we can agree to disagree, it is a game of demean the dispies, followed by a pinging of the non-dispy choir to pat folks on the back for what a great job they did at showing those dispies. In the mean time, our Savior weeps!

On the one hand, you have a group that is watching and waiting. They see a future where evil will be definitely dealt with. It is a future that includes a 7 year period of tribulation after which Christ will judge the nations. We see a future for us; and, we rejoice that though she is currently blinded, ALL of that remnant of Israel that God has ordained to salvation will be saved. We see a harmony between Zechariah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation and the gospels. For our honest treatment of scripture we are demeaned and treated like heretics.

Arguing the case on this forum isn’t worth my time because those who want to dispute have ZERO interest in discussing anything. They would rather criticize and throw up men. And, sad thing is, I doubt that until the trumpet sounds it will ever change.

Take your little party elsewhere. I won’t be joining in. This discussion profits nobody. It just serves to build up the pride of the prideful and makes us a mockery before the world.


90 posted on 11/20/2007 12:29:32 PM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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To: Blogger; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager; Gamecock; Lee N. Field; Campion
Give me a break topcat! Take your straw man and kick it elsewhere.

We’re trying to give you a break by showing you the error of the dispensational system. Christ is the focus of all of history, not national Israel, especially not the modern secular state of the 20th/21st century.

16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. … 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)

The dispensationalist says, "No, Paul you are wrong. It is to seeds, national Israel, and we know exactly where they live."

Apparently dispensationalists and Jews are the only ones who have any use for it anyway.

Exactly. Because you share the same problem as unbelieving Jews; they do not see Christ as the center of all the prophecies. I’m glad that one of you has finally admitted it. Would you go so far as to agree with dispensationalist/Zionist John Hagee that Jesus did not come as the Messiah of the Jews? That’s what he gets after slicing and dicing the Bible dispensationally.

Take your little party elsewhere. I won’t be joining in.

Fine by me. You were given the opportunity to make your case.

91 posted on 11/20/2007 1:56:27 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54

More straw men Topcat. More straw men.


92 posted on 11/20/2007 2:10:09 PM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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To: Gamecock

Amen, and amen.


93 posted on 11/20/2007 2:41:35 PM PST by irishtenor (History was written before God said "Let there be light.")
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To: Blogger; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; tabsternager; Gamecock; Lee N. Field; Campion
More straw men Topcat. More straw men.

Is that the best you can do? At least let us know exactly what constitutes a straw man in your mind.

We can’t help you see your error unless you are more specific.

94 posted on 11/20/2007 7:46:13 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54

Get the mote out of your own eye sister.


95 posted on 11/20/2007 8:05:12 PM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: Blogger

I’m curious, why did you come over to this thread?


97 posted on 11/20/2007 8:42:27 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54; Quix; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)

Dispensationalism will not get you to the truth.

It won't???? Atleast it won't mislead us like Preterism does.

Perhaps you can tell us just exactly who this holy nation [singular] is here from your 1 Peter 2 quote above??? Remembering of course that Peter was writing to the "sojourners" [Jews] scattered throughout Asia Minor, and is citing Exodus 19:6 and Deuteronomy 7:6.

It can't be the Church because the Church is made up of many nations aka Gentiles [plural] not just one [holy nation].

Maybe we have solved the mystery of just what nation Jesus was referring to here:

"The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it." [Mt 21:43]

It will be this nation returned from its 2000 year Diaspora.

98 posted on 11/21/2007 4:32:35 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54

No, you’re not.


99 posted on 11/21/2007 4:49:12 AM PST by Blogger (Propheteuon.com)
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To: topcat54
"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem:

Exactly.

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12)

You need to read more carefully. That says "the heavenly Jerusalem" which is different from this Jerusalem:

"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.... Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness." [Zechariah 8]

100 posted on 11/21/2007 5:57:10 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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