Martyrs of England and Wales, pray for us!
Posted on 12/06/2007 12:21:35 PM PST by Pyro7480
One of the Vatican’s most senior cardinals has dismissed the idea that a breakaway group of Anglicans might be received into the Catholic Church en masse – despite Benedict XVI’s personal support for such a move.
Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, told The Catholic Herald: “It’s not our policy to bring that many Anglicans to Rome.”
The cardinal’s comments refer to the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC), a rebel group which claims to represent 400,000 people. Its bishops sent a letter to Rome last month requesting “full, corporate and sacramental union”.
But the bishops did not send their letter to Cardinal Kasper. Instead they addressed it to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), where, it is understood, they expected a warmer reception.
It has been claimed that 60 Anglican parishes have joined the rebel group since their request became public.
Vatican insiders say that Benedict XVI is scrutinising the matter very closely and believes that the TAC is setting out a path that other Anglicans will follow.
One source said the Pope even gave his blessing to the TAC’s plenary assembly in October, when 60 bishops agreed to seek full communion with Rome. Each bishop reportedly signed a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the church altar.
Benedict XVI sent his message of support through Archbishop Angelo Amato, secretary of the CDF.
But Cardinal Kasper, as president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, is likely to be cautious about any arrangement that might upset the official leaders of the other Christian churches – notably the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams.
The cardinal said on Monday: “We are on good terms with the Archbishop of Canterbury and as much as we can we are helping him to keep the Anglican community together.”
When asked whether he felt encouraged by the TAC’s request, the cardinal replied: “It’s not our policy to bring that many Anglicans to Rome and I am not sure there are so many as you are speaking about.”
He added: “Of course, as a Catholic I am happy if one person joins our Catholic Church but I doubt such a big group is coming – I think there are still many questions to solve first.”
The cardinal made his comments just days after another Episcopal bishop announced his intention to seek full communion with the Catholic Church.
Bishop John B Lipscomb of southwest Florida is the fourth bishop this year to ask to be released from his Episcopal vows.
The subject of ecumenism also dominated discussions at the consistory in Rome last weekend, when Benedict XVI elevated 23 clergymen to the rank of cardinal.
The Pontiff told the assembled cardinals that they must be willing to shed their blood to spread the faith.
He singled out Patriarch Emmanuel III Delly, head of the Chaldean Church in Iraq, and said his decision to elevate him was a way of expressing his “spiritual closeness and my affection” for Christians in Iraq. But Benedict XVI chose ecumenism as the main topic for debate at his meeting with all of the cardinals on the eve of the consistory.
Cardinal Kasper, who gave the opening address, said that ecumenism was not “an optional choice, but a sacred duty”.
Later in the day Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor proposed that the Holy See organise a “pan-Christian” meeting.
Benedict XVI returned to the same theme in his homily on Sunday. “Prayer for peace and unity constitutes your first and principal mission,” he told the assembled cardinals, “so that the Church may be healthy and compact”, a “sign and instrument of unity for the entire human race”.
The homily called on the cardinals, as “the senate of the Church”, to form one whole body under Christ.
Commentators have suggested that the plea refers to the reluctance of some cardinals to accept the rulings of Summorum Pontificum, which allows priests to celebrate the traditional form of the Mass without the permission of a bishop.
The consistory also represented the first major test for the Vatican’s new director of papal liturgies, Fr Guido Marini, who replaced Archbishop Piero Marini in October.
Observers noticed several “traditionalist” touches that set the proceedings apart from those directed by Archbishop Marini, who was known as a liturgical innovator.
The Pope’s gold-embroidered mitre, for instance, belonged to the late 19-century Pope Pius IX, and his antique gilded throne was used by Leo XIII, who died in 1903. The consistory was held in St Peter’s Basilica and not in St Peter’s Square or the Vatican’s audience hall.
Martyrs of England and Wales, pray for us!
Catholic ping!
Who cares about "Rebel Anglicans" converting? The people the Catholics really need to be worried about are the Southern Baptists - they'll never surrender!
Southern Baptists launch pre-emptive strikes against Assemblies of God
Perhaps there’s the realization that all would be better served if the TAC crowd would stay with the Anglicans and help them oust the trouble makers rather than fleeing the fight and hiding in Rome. Once the troublemakers are ousted, then real progress can be made between Rome and a whole lot more than 400,000 Anglicans.
They already left the Anglican Church.
Kasper was rumored to be a serious contender for Pope. Apparently, he doesn’t realize he lost.
Why am I not surprised.
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“The people the Catholics really need to be worried about are the Southern Baptists - they’ll never surrender!”
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Maybe the Pope will call him in for a little talk.
I hope so.
Although the Pope’s to-do list has got to be a mile long...
I’ve got my source for green Jello (with the little marshmallows in it) lined up for the day those Southern Baptists come for Lutherans.
If all of Protestants of every stripe showed up at the door of Rome at the same time, asking to be let in, whadda ya think would happen?
“Kasper was rumored to be a serious contender for Pope. Apparently, he doesn’t realize he lost.”
He isn’t terribly well thought of in Orthodox circles, (its said he is “off putting”) though it is generally believed that he gets his orders from the pope and then follows them.
“Later in the day Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor proposed that the Holy See organise a “pan-Christian” meeting.”
The Cardinal is generally viewed as a heretic in Orthodox circles. Anything associated with him is virtually guaranteed to get a chilly reception east of the Adriatic.
Idiot. And just who cares what Rowan Williams thinks?
The 'troublemakers' are firmly in control of TEC and are not oust-able. There is good scriptural support for the idea that Christians separate themselves from apostates. It is not "hiding in Rome" to follow the admonitions of the apostles.
TAC has never been in communion with Canterbury, and never will be, AFAIK.
He’s beautiful.
God bless the TAC and their bishops, and may God grant our Holy Father every special grace and wisdom to know how to bring these Anglicans home to Holy Mother Church.
The humility of the TAC bishops and the 4 Anglican bishops who have already been reconciled to Holy Mother Church makes me pray even harder that our Catholic hierarchs will have an equal measure of grace to the humility of these men of God.
Conservately TAC has 400,000 in their communion, but the number is likely to be closer to 750,000. They have no relationship to the Archbishop of Canterbury save that they spend their lives carrying foward the Catholic heritage of Anglicans whilst the Archbishop of Canterbury flitters about in Catholic garb whilst guiding the S.S. Anglicana onto the rocks.
The Church has done a lousy job in welcoming Anglicans who want to be reconciled to the Catholic Church. The bottom line is that the KumBaYah happy-clappy bishops like Kasper do not want the conservative Anglicans because they will be the kind of Catholics more in line with the Usus Antiquour of the Holy Mass than the Mass of Paul VI.
There are no trouble makers to oust in the sense that the problems stem from the leadership - not from a lower level. Kaspars statement about helping the ABC shows how out of touch he is. The ABC IS the problem....He's a druid and has no spine to deal with our female bishopress or the very gay church of north america.
Helping the ABC is adding fuel to the fire. The entire leadership is corrupt and apostate. No Cardinal in Rome can change that, make it better or 'heal' the Anglican Communion. If there's one thing the Vatican should do it's get real and try to comprehend the real situation.
I know TAC is not formally part of the Anglican Communion. Then again, neither are many other “continuing Anglican groups” such as the REC and EMC. While those groups, which do not ordain women either, are working with the AMiA, Forward in Faith, the Anglican Communion Network, etc on reorganizing Anglicanism in the West, TAC is nowhere to be found.
ECUSA and its allies are being tossed asside along with their radical feminist theology that brought us women priests and other issues. Participation by TAC in the new North American province would be extremely helpful in phasing out the ordination of women and other problems once the libs are gone.
Imagine the potential for Anglo-Catholic relations if the Anglican Communion were able to oust the revisionists and phase out the ordination of women! The first part is happening and the second part is very possible.
The problem is twofold as I see it; one, the radical leftwing American Episcopal Church, which controls a lot of the Church’s wealth, and two, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is a douchbag.
God would be pleased.
I’m with you. I would think we want to grow the Church with pious people, wherever they originate! I support the idea of opening the doors to all who wish to enter into full Communion with us.
It looks like Rowan the Fuzzy has decided to take the heave-ho along with ECUSA. Archbishop Akinola and company, I’m sure, are disappointed with him, but they won’t let him stand in the way of proclaiming the Truth.
Memo from Virginia to Kasper: Hush up!
Memo from Virginia to Pope Benedict XVI: Tell them to “come on down!”
Amen and right on!
Cormac Murphy-O’Connor is an absolute horror.
As for Kasper, he seems to follow some of the orders from Rome, and then every so often he launches out on his own - usually followed by a discreet retraction. I will say he seems to be getting a little more orthodox over time, but then he does something like this (if the Pope is actually talking to the Anglicans, Kasper certainly has no right to come out and announce that it’s impossible, all off, etc.).
In the sense that He is pleased with all of His miracles, in the sense that His children have done a good thing or in the sense that the end is finally at hand?
The answer is "behind Door #2".
I think Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor and the other English Bishops believe that the various Anglicans are their territory and how they are converted should be their decision alone. They probably take TAC’s decision to approach directly with the Vatican as an affront to their sensibilities. You will also notice that the English Bishops, concerning previous mass Anglican conversions, have converted them into the Latin Rite and not into any Anglican enclave like the Anglican Use Society in the US. I think TAC wants to keep their Angloness flavor.
This thing has to happen step by step, but it should be encouraged.
I did. Baptized in the Baptist Church, Alexandria Virginia, 1967; confirmed in the Catholic Church, Fredericksburg Virginia, Easter 2000.
I will admit that when God told me at the Baptist Easter service I was attending in 1999 that I ought to be at Mass, I cried bitterly, and fought all summer to avoid doing His will.
As I have noted before, we in the Anglican Usage of the Catholic Church are awaiting the reception of the TAC into full communion with Rome with bated breath and much prayer. This is such a great opportunity for the Church that I hope that what must be the ideologically-driven opposition of those like Kasper the Friendly Ecumenist will be overcome by the good sense of others.
Having come from an Evangelical background to start with, and having explored all the far reaches of the rightward position in (and yes, I still maintain the SSPX is “in”) the Church, I can attest that the Anglican ethos brings a really beneficial sense of the unity of truth, goodness and beauty, and a soothing balm of gentleness (without compromise, though), to Catholic worship and life that will be just right for so many, IF they get the chance to experience it.
And that “if” is the key: an apostolic administration or some such high-powerd juridical arrangement will be necessary so that a TAC (and us AU-ers tagging along) “united, not absorbed” (a Vat II-inspired phrase of Franjo, Cardinal Seper, Prefect of the CDF before Card. Ratzinger) with Rome can function without hindrance from local ordinaries who lack the necessary understanding.
To see what could be available to us, go to the web site of St. Mary of the Angels Anglican Church in Los Angeles (Hollywood), at http://www.stmaryoftheangels.org/index.html
One of the real gems there is the collection of sermons by the rector-elect, Fr. Christopher Kelley, SSC, which I find very edifying.
I always enjoy going there when in L.A. — in fact one of my favorite Mahoneyland stories is of the Labor Day weekend Sunday in 2003 when I went to St Maximilan Kolbe in (northern) L.A. County early to fulfill my “legal” obligation, and where I heard a sermon about obsessive-compulsive disorder,then everyone standing for the Consecration, the fat lady singing and the tabernacle in a room the size of a coat closet (and looking like one, too). Then I went over to St Mary’s for Anglican High Mass with bells and smells and the priest preaching the Bible and St Thomas Aquinas, I kid you not, the Gloria and Creed said properly, evereyone kneeling from the Suscipiat to the final collect, and so on, you get the idea.
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