Rick Warren:AIDS too big for church alone

WorlNetDaily ^ | December 13, 2007 | Art Moore

[pby]

LAKE FOREST, Calif. – When Rick Warren takes on a problem, the scale often seems limited only by the size of the planet. Five years ago, his wife, Kay, responded to a sobering magazine article about the plight of 12 million AIDS orphans in Africa, and now their 22,000-strong Saddleback Church in upscale Orange County, California, has completed its third annual "Global Summit on AIDS and the Church," drawing figures such as Sen. Hillary Clinton, United Nations officials and President Bush's global AIDS coordinator to unite against the pandemic.

Warren says the problem of AIDS, with an estimated 33 million infected with HIV, is too big for the church alone, and he advocates the building of a public, private and faith partnership.

The venture has created unusual alliances, underscoring the conflicting approaches to a problem inseparable from issues of sexual morality.

While the traditional teaching of Warren's Southern Baptists heritage emphasizes abstinence outside of marriage, governments and other secular institutions generally have adopted what they consider a "pragmatic approach" that refrains from judgment and seeks simply to keep people alive based on the belief that youth inevitably will engage in sexual activity.

Speaker Pauline Muchina, senior women and AIDS advocacy officer with UNAIDS in Washington, D.C., told the summit AIDS must be challenged with a "comprehensive" program that includes condom promotion, and she condemned the traditional Christian teaching of male leadership in marriage as a major cause of violence against women.

Muchina, a native of Kenya's Rift Valley, told WND, however, she has no problem working with the Warrens.

"I only get anxious when [evangelicals] start condemning people who are advocating for a comprehensive HIV prevention including the use of condoms," she said,

[pby]

Rick and Kay Warren support condom distribution.

[Argus]

Cue the Team America song.

[Greg F]

Rick and Kay Warren support condom distribution.

Yah, cause with condoms you can lower the risk of transmission. As opposed to eliminating it by having your family live as Christians who don't sleep around. My church had a handout last week. If every church in the USA adopted 40 African AIDS patients, we would cover the current needs of those people. EVERY CHURCH -- 40 PEOPLE. It's a massive problem caused by the culture of sleeping around in Africa . . . and he wants to slap a condom on an epidemic. Millions will get the disease wearing condoms if they don't alter their habits. Condoms break, are used improperly, people tend to get drunk and forget to use them, or empty the box and keep going . . . it's a false sense of security that helps create the habits that spread the epidemic.

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

I heard her on the radio last night. She is a bleeding heart liberal. It's obvious that she means well, but her liberalism is getting in the way of true understanding.

As to the AIDS problem in Africa, we have thrown Billions of dollars at that country. Has it even made a difference? No. And it won't. Even if we threw a Billion dollars a day at it, the AIDS problem in Africa would still remain. It's due to their weird sexual practices that AIDS is such a staggering problem in Africa. Weird sexual practices are a cause of AIDS, anyway. But in Africa they go even farther. The father/daughter initiation practices... Disgusting, archaic, barbaric. No amount of money will ever stop it. But I guess the do-gooders will continue to throw money at Africa because it makes them feel good. It is money that is wasted that could be used elsewhere to make a real difference.

[PetroniusMaximus]

“...he advocates the building of a public, private and faith partnership.”

“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?”

2 Corinthians 6:13-15

[Catholic Canadian]

I think it would help more if people just stopped participating in sodomy.

[pby]

I completely agree.

But most outright ignore such passages as they are not in harmony with their pragmatic approach to "ministry".

[pby]

Now how are you going to save more and win more with that kind of mentality?!

/sarcasm

[Antoninus]

Yeah, um, because, ya know, since we started giving out free rubbers, the rate of AIDS has gone waaaay down. /sarc

AIDS is a disease with a widely known method of transmission that can be avoided by not engaging in certain acts with large numbers of people. Want to stop AIDS? Uphold the institution of marriage, value abstinence before marriage, and encourage monogamy within marriage.

Problem solved.

[ikka]

"I only get anxious when [evangelicals] start condemning people who are advocating for a comprehensive HIV prevention including the use of condoms," she said,

In other words "Give me your money, while I tell you shut up about morality."

[pby]

Yeah...I agree.

And since when is it the Church's job to cure AIDS?

I don't see this command anywhere in Scripture (Jesus miraculously cured individual lepers (to show that he was the Messiah) but He did not set out to cure leprosy in its entirety .

I think that the focus of ministry is being sidetracked, here (as documented/demonstrated by Warren's promotion of the distribution of condoms, which is just ludicrous).

Purpose Driven rubbers, anyone?

Just think of the ministry opportunities! We could put Bible verses and different spiritual quotes on them!

[pby]

Pathetic...isn't it.

The price the Church pays for compromise and bedding a harlot.

[bboop]

Yup, God forbid that the CHURCH should talk about morality in all of this. Just push condoms, much safer. Go away, Rick.

[Greg F]

Good point.

[Cecily]

“And since when is it the Church’s job to cure AIDS?”

Social “gospel” = another gospel. That is the bottom line. Furthermore, what about all the other horrible diseases around the world, like malaria, dysentery, and cholera, which could use more Christian aid dollars?

[alpha-8-25-02]

AMERICA’S PASTOR PING!

[Terriergal]

Listen here:December 13, 2007 - Hour 1

Todd Friel in response to a Coral Springs church that promotes its services with Wii giveaway:

"when did Jesus stop being so attractive that we put him on the shelf and decided to get people to come to church and to get people to come to the savior we need a computer game?"

Paul Washer:

"If you are a lost, unregenerate, hellbound church member, then you will need all sorts of things to motivate you for the Christian life. You'll need to go to a church where it's like the six flags over Jesus, they have every sort of thing you can imagine to keep you entertained. They have program after program after program because they've gotta keep the machine going because the building costs a lot of money. And they've gotta introduce and embrace every fad that comes down the pike -- church growth this church growth that-- my goodness how did the apostle Paul ever start a church? You have to be sensitive to culture this generation that generation the xyz generation, every genera---, you have to know everything -- NO!! It's all a bunch of little boys trying to play "men of God" without Scripture is what it is. And they've gotta build something on something other than Scripture because they don't have Scripture NOR the power of God. What do you do in order to get people saved? Well first of all getting them saved is not hard at all, it's getting them lost that's difficult.... but you only need to preach the Word of God. And what do you need to do to motivate a true church to greater and greater love for one another to greater and greater service and devotion to Christ? What do you need to do to motivate a church? Only one thing: explain to them in greater and greater ways who God is and what God has done for them in Jesus, and that'll be enough. My body is broken in a million pieces, Ive got more metal in me than a tonka truck. My hips have been replaced, my wrist is all metal,this I think broke two days ago. I'm just a disaster. And I hear these preachers and they're telling me 'if you come to Jesus he'll heal you, if you come to Jesus he'll fix your marriage, if you come to Jesus, he'll balance your checkbook, if you come to Jesus he'll give you self-esteem...' Don't come to me with those things! Don't cheapen my call! Is it not enough to come to Jesus because of Jesus?! That even if you lose everything in this world because of Christ, CHRIST IS ENOUGH? I don't I don't need to be wealthy,need to be healed, I don't need ANYTHING! I'd rather have CHRIST!"

I love Paul Washer.

[Terriergal]

Yah, cause with condoms you can lower the risk of transmission. As opposed to eliminating it by having your family live as Christians who don't sleep around.

Rick and Kay don't know how to make Christians.

[Ann Archy]

Pass out BIBLES instead of Condoms, Rick!! Good Grief!

[Terriergal]

Now how are you going to save more and win more with that kind of mentality?! /sarcasm

LOL

[Terriergal]

I'm still waiting for Rick Warren to follow Julie Jones' example and sue all his detractors. Oh wait, it'd have to be Kay Warren that does that.

KEN SILVA THREATENED WITH LAWSUIT OVER TONY JONES (EMERGENT CHURCH)(JONES' WIFE THREATENING)

[Terriergal]

Pass out BIBLES instead of Condoms, Rick!! Good Grief!

Nah that won't work either. He'll give them "The Message" which is a blatant corruption of the text.

[Ann Archy]

Speaker Pauline Muchina, senior women and AIDS advocacy officer with UNAIDS in Washington, D.C., told the summit AIDS must be challenged with a "comprehensive" program that includes condom promotion, and she condemned the traditional Christian teaching of male leadership in marriage as a major cause of violence against women.

WHAT NERVE!!! Male Leadership is the BEST way to run a home......LEADERSHIP....not beatings, idiot.

[Ann Archy]

Rick Warren is CREEPY!

[Terriergal]

Funny you should say that. Most of the world seems to love the guy. Kinda like Joel Osteen. Ya know? He’s just such a nice guy... (sigh)

[Terriergal]

When Rick Warren takes on a problem, the scale often seems limited only by the size of the planet.

Ya think Art Moore kinda likes Warren?

[pby]

I love Paul Washer.

A true preacher of God's Word!

[jboot]

Wow! That simply rocks! Thanks for posting it!

[Ann Archy]

Joel Osteen at least looks CLEAN....Rick Warren looks like a DIRTY OLD MAN. BEWARE of WOLVES in SHEEP’S CLOTHING!

[bboop]

Our friend is from Uganda. She said people just go out, DEFYING the threat of AIDs, and sleep around. She said there were funerals there every DAY when she lived there. She totally believes it is linked to poor decisions and behavior, wants to, at some point, take her fine nursing degree and experience back home and minister there.

It is not, however, a disease spread without complicity.

[pby]

Paul Washer PING!

See post# 17 and listen.

Excellent!

[Between the Lines]

Uganda is changing

Condom Battle of the First Ladies - Laura Bush vs Uganda's Janet Museveni

[Terriergal]

lol

Joel osteen looks ‘slick’ — there’s a difference. But hey he can bench Rick Warren, apparently.

[Terriergal]

That spot where they added the reverb on “NO” — gave me goosebumps.

[L,TOWM]

AIDS may be too big for the “Church”, but it sure is’nt bigger than the Almighty God I serve.

Warren should do “the Church” a favor and go back to Bible College.

[Ann Archy]

Yes, he looks slick but Rick Warren looks DIRTY, and NEITHER teach totally CHRISTIAN values.

[Terriergal]

Ya know guys--- I just noticed something tonight while printing out some of these Rick Warren stories for an older friend who has no internet connection or computer. I read the title of this article:

Rick Warren:AIDS too big for church alone and:

Warren says the problem of AIDS, with an estimated 33 million infected with HIV, is too big for the church alone,

And then look at this page:

There is no organization or government that can effectively eradicate these giants. The only successful solution is the global Church of Jesus Christ.

Here's a screen shot in case they suddenly are alerted that they forgot to change animal farm's commandments to reflect what Old Major is saying this week:

and also I find this semi-pelagian comment quite revealing:

"As a pastor, my job is to change behavior," Warren emphasized.

Once again taking on the role of the Holy Spirit. There is SO much in this story to take issue with, from saying it's OK to distrubute condoms to the adulterers Proverbs warns every man about...to the comment about being able to work with Catholics... (yeah but can Catholics work with YOU?)

I mean, really! This guy thinks we're all as easily duped as his koolaid drinkers.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

This guy is slowly going off the deep end. We need to pray for him and his “ministry” before it gets worse.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

Ah - behavior modification is the modern evangelism! Celebrate Recovery is exhibit 1. Much of “Christian counseling” is exhibit 2. Rather than confront folks with the problem (strongholds of sin), we focus on changing behavior - because that’s what man can see. Far be it from some to teach Scripture and prayerfully seek the Holy Spirit to change the heart. From “salvations” to “recovery from habits and hang-ups”, the Schuller school of evangelism (of which Warren, Hybels, Osteen, Erwin McManus are disciples) focuses on man rather than God.

This will always lead to apostasy - for the Word tells us to fix our eyes on the unseen.

Colossians 3:1 - 3 “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”

2 Corinthians 4:13 - 18 “We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.”

[GOPPachyderm]

I thought something cannot be both A and non-A at the same time. Did that change?

[HarleyD]

While the traditional teaching of Warren's Southern Baptists heritage emphasizes abstinence outside of marriage, governments and other secular institutions generally have adopted what they consider a "pragmatic approach" that refrains from judgment and seeks simply to keep people alive based on the belief that youth inevitably will engage in sexual activity.

This was contained on page 27 of Popular Science this month:

September brought lousy news from the front lines of the fight against AIDS: In clinical trials, the most prominsing HIV vaccine in the pipeline failed to prevent infections.....The most important-and disturbing-lesson from the trial may turn out to be that the vaccine made things worse. The September tally showed that volunteers who received the vaccine were slightly more likely to become infected that were those who got dummy shots.

One has to wonder what are we spending our research money on? Those who are receiving a "vaccine" are continuing to live their homosexual life style all with the blessings of the government, and now the church. The church needs to quit being pragmatic about this and tell it for what it is-sin. Perhaps we will not only prevent people from getting AIDS but save some souls as well.