Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)

Catholic Exchange ^ | December 18, 2007 | Mickey Addison

[Rutles4Ever]

The lesson is, spare nothing from God, not, "Jesus was a materialist." If the Church builds an opulent Cathedral to honor God, who are you to complain?

BTW, the Catholic Church has given more aid and comfort to the poor than any institution in the history of the world, so I don't understand this common refrain that the Church neglects the poor for the sake of wearing a hat.

[Resolute Conservative]

Well, I know many Catholics and attended a Catholic Church but decided it was not for me. Unlike false Christian-like religions I do worship the triune God and believe the Bible is the infallible and final Word of God. I just choose not to be party to the traditions and pomp and circumstance that accompanies the Catholic Mass nor the overhead of the international church business.

I do not dare tell Catholics that they are not a true Christian religion and any Catholic that claims supremacy of their religion over other Christian denominations needs some self inspection of the motives of why they are Catholic.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[Rutles4Ever]

Congrats. Another portion of the NT other than John 6 that a Catholic would like others to take literally. lol.

There's not a whole lot the Church doesn't take literally, but we're also not handcuffed into ignoring context, as Fundamentalists are. Fundamentalists profess a literal reading ONLY, but choose to waive that process for John 6 and others problematic passages. Who's being disingenuous?

[Rutles4Ever]

Merry Christmas to you, too, friend.

[Resolute Conservative]

In your case then the churches in Asia ( now Eastern Orthodox ) predated the Catholic Church so by your example the Catholic Church is not a true church??? Protestantism is just as flawed as the Catholic system IMO. Just look at your own internal squabbles and scandals and tell me it’s perfect.

[texan75010]

7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8” ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’[d]”

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2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

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5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

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11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases
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[theanonymouslurker]

Finally, it should be noted that the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches all recognize the Deueterocanonicals which would indicate that before the split between Rome and Constantinopile in the 11th century, there was a common view betewen West and East on the OT canon.

Excellent point. Well said.

[Soliton]

It wasn’t a Catholic criticism. Jim and Tammy Fay had gold bathroom fixtures and airconditioned dog houses.

My point is that the Pope has no need of a fancy hat, or expensive art, his basic needs are provided for. your verse selection, of course, references gifts to Jesus and the Pope isn’t Jesus, but a man.

I firmly believe that the “eye of the needle” verse is accurate, because every dollar we waste on exalting ourselves, or on luxury, comes at the expense of someone who has less than they need. I of course live better than I should and can cast no stones, but it doesn’t change what I believe is right. The Pope lives like an Earthly King, not like a simple monk. I have emense respect for monks because they sacrifice for their beliefs.

[Campion]

The Pope lives like an Earthly King

His lifestyle isn't as regal as you think. And none of the art, etc., around him is his personal property.

[Campion]

“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

[Rutles4Ever]

The reason Roman Catholicism became the dominant Christian sect was because it was the only one with the Roman army.

"Thank you for saving us from the Mohameddens with that evil army of yours"? I don't understand. You'd rather be praying towards Mecca?

[Soliton]

You'd rather be praying towards Mecca

The Roman Catholic Crusaders sacked Constantinople weakening it so that the Mohammadans could eventually take over.

"Probably the most telling event which displayed the decline of the crusader ideal was the capture and pillage of the Christian bastion of Constantinople by the members of the Fourth Crusade in 1204. The subsequent dismemberment of the Byzantine Empire weakened Christendom in the Near East and created an animousity between Catholics and Orthodox which has lasted into the 20th century"

[Campion]

The reason Roman Catholicism became the dominant Christian sect was because it was the only one with the Roman army.

Greek Orthodoxy ought to be the dominant Christian sect, then, since they had the Roman army in their pocket until 1453, and the Roman army in the west ceased to exist after 476.

You really ought to read more history.

America was created to escape this crap.

This kind of language isn't permitted on the religion forum. Unless, of course, it's directed at Catholics.

[Frumanchu]

Furtermore, the Councils of Rome 382, Hippo 393, and Carthage in 397 all list the deutercanonicals, as does St. Augustine in his letter “On Christian Instruction 2:8:13 circa 395 AD].

The Council of Rome did no such thing. That is a post-Trent fiction from Faustino Arevalo (unless you can explain how a council in 382 can cite Augustine's words from around 412). The other two are nothing more than provincial councils that, if taken as general councils, create many more problems for you than for me.

The sum total of your argument seems to be that whatever a few early fathers and small councils deem to be true is therefore true. Not only is that NOT the practical reality of the Catholic Church, it would be incredibly problematic for you all if it were (particularly in the case of Carthage and Trullan).

To say that there was anything even approaching a consensus among the church that these apocryphal books were to be viewed as inspired and authoritative Scripture is nothing more than post-Trent revisionism.

Please understand, I mean no disrespect, and I hope you and your family have a blessed celebration of the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Brandie]

OH my gosh you are comparing Pope and his hat to Jesus and the ointment used? Look at what you did, you put your Pope on the same level as the Son of God.

The Pope is just a man like any man, a human being. A good man sure but still a man.

[El Cid]

Re: 144

But you said that all someone has to do is believe in Christ, then you start adding all these caveats and rules. Who are you to start your own religion?

Actually I said "believers in the Lord Jesus Christ" - did I not? You may dispute the validity of that comment, or what it means, but at least quote me correctly.

You also seemed to have accidentally cut the quote from Mark a bit short (at verse 6):

Mark 14:3-9

3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Rather than a defense for the waste, opulence, and largess in the Church of Rome, these verses point at a woman making a memorial of one of the greatest - one time events - in the history of mankind.

[Running On Empty]

“Please understand I mean no disrespect”.

I wish you had shown the same courtesy in your post #149.

ROE

[Frumanchu]

I meant no disrespect there either. However, given the number of times we Protestants have had to address this outrageous lie, I felt no compulsion to be sweet and cuddly.

[Running On Empty]

This would be a good time for me to say that Catholics know how it feels to have to address outrageous lies.

But I think that I would rather choose the “more excellent way” for all sides. I have often hoped that Catholics would be more prudent and respectful in their posts. I certainly have also wished that were so with some Protestant FReepers.

“The fruit of the Sprit is love, joy, peace, patient endurance, kindness, generosity, faith, mildness and chastity. Against these there is no law.”
Galatians 5:22-23

ROE

[jo kus]

I firmly believe that the “eye of the needle” verse is accurate, because every dollar we waste on exalting ourselves, or on luxury, comes at the expense of someone who has less than they need. I of course live better than I should and can cast no stones, but it doesn’t change what I believe is right. The Pope lives like an Earthly King, not like a simple monk. I have emense respect for monks because they sacrifice for their beliefs.

While I can understand your angst towards wasteful spending, please explain to me why God would direct the Jews of the Old Testament to build a golden box, or a gigantic temple? To what purpose do you suppose God would do such a thing? Did Jesus want to tear down the Temple because of its ornate work and beautiful gold figures and distribute the proceeds to the poor?

As to the Pope, perhaps you should consider that he owns nothing of the Vatican - he occupies an office, much like the George Bush doesn't own the White House.

Thanks in advance