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Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
Amazon.com ^ | Bart D. Ehrman

Posted on 01/04/2008 10:17:32 PM PST by TheDon

The popular perception of the Bible as a divinely perfect book receives scant support from Ehrman, who sees in Holy Writ ample evidence of human fallibility and ecclesiastical politics. Though himself schooled in evangelical literalism, Ehrman has come to regard his earlier faith in the inerrant inspiration of the Bible as misguided, given that the original texts have disappeared and that the extant texts available do not agree with one another. Most of the textual discrepancies, Ehrman acknowledges, matter little, but some do profoundly affect religious doctrine. To assess how ignorant or theologically manipulative scribes may have changed the biblical text, modern scholars have developed procedures for comparing diverging texts. And in language accessible to nonspecialists, Ehrman explains these procedures and their results. He further explains why textual criticism has frequently sparked intense controversy, especially among scripture-alone Protestants. In discounting not only the authenticity of existing manuscripts but also the inspiration of the original writers, Ehrman will deeply divide his readers. Although he addresses a popular audience, he undercuts the very religious attitudes that have made the Bible a popular book. Still, this is a useful overview for biblical history collections. Bryce Christensen

Customer Review 1

In a little over 200 pages, Ehrman gets to the point of how the New Testament came to be what it is today. No, it didn't just appear leather-bound, shiny, and new after Jesus' resurrection; rather, it was painstakingly cobbled together decades after Jesus' crucifixion from copies of copies of copies of (you get the point) the original writings of the New Testament authors, which were slowly altered over time by scribes that handed them down (sometimes by accident or othertimes intentionally by those meaning to "correct" things in the scriptures that didn't make sense). All in all, Ehrman makes his case well, that even if the New Testament scriptures started out as the inspired word of God, we humans have certainly gotten our filthy little hands on it and have made it quite difficult to discern what the "original" writers (whose texts have been lost) actually wrote. Thus, we can only try to piece it together through the challenging art of textual criticism, which is what this book is largely about.

Customer Review 2

This is the first book of Ehrman's I have read. I found it interesting and well-written for the average person who has little background in Biblical Textual Studies, (which equates to more than 99% of the population.)

I do not have the credentials of Dr. Ehrman, but I do have the equivalent of a degree in Biblical Literature and have worked in the original languages. My Senior Thesis was doing a textual comparison of the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas discovered at Nag Hammadi with the parallel passages of the Kingdom Parables of Matthew 13. To do that I had to teach myself some Coptic Egyptian and do some translating to form a basis for comparison.

All that said to establish that I have some background to make an evaluation of what is being said in this book.

I also have some common ground with Dr. Ehrman in life history. I too was trained as an evangelical with a very high view of inspiration and further had to struggle as I became aware of how difficult it is to interact with the text in its manuscript and historical form all while becoming painfully aware of the fact that any view of inspiration must tacitly admit that it is a hypothetical basis of faith because as Ehrman states clearly:

1. If the original manuscripts are inspired, we don't have them.

2. What we do have, while overall reliable and fairly easily examined for error, still leaves some serious questions of textual manipulation by scribes that makes several key passages difficult to stand upon for important doctrines.

This is, in fact, not as great a secret as Ehrman seems to imply throughout his book. There are a great number of books from all backgrounds and degrees of belief that acknowledge these types of issues. Granted, they tend to be more of an academic nature than what Ehrman has attempted to do here. But they are there nonetheless and have been for centuries.

Jefferson's Bible was an early example (though not necessarily intended for distribution at the time) of how people wrestled with this issue. The means of wrestling with them have improved with additional manuscripts discovered (i.e. the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi to name the better known ones.) Scholarship has improved to where I believe it is safe to say that what we know in this realm today has improved our confidence in most areas of the text.

In fact, the newer translations themselves (The NIV, the NASB etc.), actually have margin notes and some variant readings noted very clearly in just the areas that Ehrman focuses on within his book. That hardly equates to a "cover-up."

In view of this, I think Ehrman somewhat oversteps his points in favor of salesmanship to try and press home his own doubts that have arisen in his personal journey. Most Christians have many tools, books, websites, and Bibles themselves to be introduced to these types of issues (IF they want to be.) This is an issue well within the grasp of the average layman if they should be interested in pursuing it.

There are many conservative scholars with equally distinguished academic backgrounds that match Ehrman's and yet still maintain a higher view of Scripture than he appears to have adopted. I accept that his views are well informed and sincere. I do not accept his conclusion that inspiration of the original text requires equally divine preservation. However, in recognizing that I accept that the onus is on those of my persuasion to provide solid scholarship to demonstrate our case. I believe that is being provided. I would encourage any reading this book to listen to what Ehrman has to say and do some research on what others of a more conservative approach and respect for Scripture have to say as well. In this regard, even Bruce Metzger, Ehrman's mentor to whom he dedicates the book has a somewhat more conservative view and conclusion based on the same criteria.

The primary and most valuable point that I think Ehrman makes in this work, is that there are many Christians in denial either through ignorance or worse, perhaps an unwillingness to face these issues for fear of upsetting their internal house of cards and being forced to admit that there are unanswered questions and room for some intellectual honesty and humility in facing difficult issues related to the Bible.

There are many Christians, unfortunately who prefer denial to honest appraisal. Ehrman very rightly confronts this with his material.

As an evangelical who has retained and maintained his faith in this journey, I haven't found it necessary to resort to denial. There are satisfactory answers to be found. It does, however, require a willingness to adopt some humility and to honestly rethink and modify positions when the facts call for it. That is not a bad thing. In fact, I think it's a good thing and results in a deeper, more understanding, more relevent and intellectually honest faith that can move and interact within our society and culture without apology. I don't believe God intends for his people to be mental midgets or follow their faith mindlessly.

That having been said, I didn't find the text offensive or threatening for that matter. I think he does a good job of raising the points on the major issues without overly sensationalizing them beyond what I have qualified above. His facts are reasonably sound and accurate, even if they are somewhat selective. His conclusions in places seem to be somewhat hastily arrived at, but I'm willing to give him some latitude due to his goal of making this easily grasped by the average person with no formal training.

Worth the read. Hopefully any reading this as an introduction to the field will not stop here but go on to explore and learn more. Metzger is good, Gordon Fee is good. FF Bruce also has some good material, but there are many others if you want to enter the field more deeply and see some differing persepctives.

Evangelicals, (such as myself) need to read and interact with these types of books and enter the field as participants in the debate rather than naysayers throwing verbal salvos from behind our walls of faith, security and (unfortunately at times) ignorance.

Read it and be introduced into an important field of knowledge.


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: bible; misquotes
An interesting book for anyone interested in the history of the Bible.
1 posted on 01/04/2008 10:17:38 PM PST by TheDon
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To: TheDon
open season on Scripture and the Church.

Oh, wait, it's always open season on the Church.

2 posted on 01/04/2008 10:21:16 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (whose spirit is hillary channelling these days?)
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To: TheDon

All this about what the original text said is like asking what was Michael Angelo’s first impression when he saw a block of marble, or what was in Einstein’s mind the night before he came up with the theory of special relativity, where was Neil Armstrong’s first step as a boy?

These points are all moot,

Its what’s in the bible now and what texts that has been used for centuries that molded the worlds first democracies, freedom of religion, justice, human rights, and the concept of being responsible for once own actions, the afterlife, repentance, salvation, redemption and forgiveness as described in nearly all modern versiona of the new testament, an tried and proven self help book equal to none… if if works why fix it?


3 posted on 01/04/2008 10:34:26 PM PST by seastay
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To: the invisib1e hand

Yup. Christians are easy targets to the libs because we dont fight back. They only respect and respond to power that’s why they drop their pants in awe when you name any commie dictator.

Besides, Im more intested in Jesus life before he was 32. I heard he started a metal band when he was 25 but that’s unsubstantiated.:)


4 posted on 01/04/2008 10:35:47 PM PST by max americana
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To: TheDon
Before anyone gets taken in by this I strongly recommend they read Lee Strobel's "Case for the Real Jesus", a sequel to his popur "Case for Christ." He takes on Ehrman by interviewing Dr. Craig A. Evans, one of the worlds premier scholars on Biblical text and translation. He founded the Dead Sea Scrolls Institute. He has a list of Degrees and fellowships as long as your arm from all around the world. He slices and dices Ehrman like a sushi chef and leaves very small pieces.

If anyone enjoys Christian apologetics I think they would enjoy this book more than Strobel's first one. It goes into more depth and detail and is more than the "apologetics 101" the first book was.

5 posted on 01/04/2008 10:41:41 PM PST by joebuck
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To: TheDon

It’s why I go back to the Textus Receptus, in Greek, when I review Bible passages. The “improvements” introduced in modern translations can significantly change the meaning of key passages. I particularly recommend the interlinear bibles translated by Jay P. Green. Phenomenal resources.


6 posted on 01/04/2008 10:56:51 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast ([Fred Thompson/Clarence Thomas 2008!])
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To: TheDon

Yes,...thanks for posting this.


7 posted on 01/04/2008 11:08:37 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: TheDon

God sais He would preserve his (inspired) words forever...If this guy is right, God lied...

I’ll stick with God...


8 posted on 01/05/2008 12:40:03 AM PST by Iscool
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To: TheDon

I have indisputable proof that Jesus actually said, “Blessed are the cheesemakers.”


9 posted on 01/05/2008 1:34:15 AM PST by kaehurowing
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To: joebuck

Of course, someone promoting a book would never fabricate things. Archaeological and reliable extra- biblical sources have validated the Bible, both old and new testaments. Check out Christianthinktank.com for help with this.


10 posted on 01/05/2008 3:29:39 AM PST by momincombatboots (World changing power in the blood)
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To: TheDon
"textual criticism"

AKA, job security.

11 posted on 01/05/2008 3:32:16 AM PST by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: kaehurowing
I have indisputable proof that Jesus actually said, “Blessed are the cheesemakers.”

I'll get started today on the cheese. Er, I hope you don't mean "cutting the cheese".

12 posted on 01/05/2008 3:46:59 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: TheDon

***An interesting book for anyone interested in the history of the Bible.***

Then you can go on to THE PASSOVER PLOT and The Bible and the Sacred Mushroom! Then a little Da Vinci Code for effect!

Sarc/off


13 posted on 01/05/2008 4:09:03 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Iscool

“God sais He would preserve his (inspired) words forever...If this guy is right, God lied...

I’ll stick with God...”

I was thinking the same thing. After all, God IS the Word, and has the power to persevere.


14 posted on 01/05/2008 5:24:48 AM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: seastay

...the devil’s in the details...


15 posted on 01/05/2008 6:47:01 AM PST by tpanther
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To: TheDon

I suggest that you read this instead:

http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn53/bibletrue.htm


16 posted on 01/05/2008 8:44:52 AM PST by BlessedMom92
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To: TheDon

or for a more scientific analysis:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/02/new_testament_manuscripts_the.html


17 posted on 01/05/2008 8:48:06 AM PST by BlessedMom92
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To: TheDon

The most consistent doctrine I’ve found of how God grows us through faith in Christ leads me to a different perspective than the commentators of the book, and if I maybe so bold, I believe others may find His method more understandable in this fashion.

We know that all true faith comes from God, not by ourselves, and not from other men, but all from God.

He has provided a system of sanctification whereby first the Word of God is communicated to the believer, His Word is made understood to the human spirit by God, the Holy Spirit, the Word is understood in our mind, also by God the Holy Spirit, then while remaining in faith through Him, God the Holy Spirit makes that Word understood in our heart as an outward form of knowledge, which is recallable and usable by our volition in daily life. (In Scriptural anthropology, man is body, soul, and spirit with the soul being comprised of mind and heart, and the mental operation involving the will or volition.)

The particular doctrine which expresses this idea has been called the Doctrine of “Operation Z” by some. (Z being formed by a graph of the operation of the Holy Spirit, beginning with a Pastor-Teacher communicating the Word as the upper left hand part of the letter Z, then moving right by the work of the Holy Spirit to the edification of the human spirit by the Holy Spirit of the Word, then downwards left to filling the mind with the Word as an inward knowledge (GNOSIS), again through the work of the Holy Spirit, then finally to the right to the outward knowledge in the heart (EPIGNOSIS), again by the work of the Holy Spirit.

I’ve researched the doctrine, and although have found other passages that allow other epistemological constructs to play in our sanctification,...I nevertheless, have found the above model to be fairly close to well explaining one sound model of how God inculcates faith and furthers our sanctification process.

Of note in this doctrine, God also provides different spiritual gifts to different believers. The spiritual gift of pastor-teacher and the spiritual gift of evangelism are particular gifts to a believer’s human spirit which makes that particular believer perceptive of the spiritual domain as associated in communicating to believers (in the case of Pastor-Teacher), and communication to unbelievers (in the case of evangelism).

I’ve experienced this, when having been exposed to who I consider my proper Pastor-Teacher, when he would express comments on the doctrine he was teaching, through faith in Christ, and in communicating the Word, in a fashion which uniquely touched my personal life and events therein. Although other believers may have been in the room we were studying in, by him remaining in fellowship through faith in Christ, God the Holy Spirit was able to give the pastor-Teacher thoughts which were inspired by God and expressed portions of Scripture which spoke to the student and their unique Christian life as preplanned by God from eternity past. It might be said that there are no secrets when one is a believer through faith in Christ, other than what God allows in the implementation of His Plan. When in the presence of a Pastor-teacher, he might become very well aware of the most private heinous thinking or sinful manner of his student, or even a seemingly innocuous sinful manner, never telegraphed, simply by the inculcation of that understanding by God the Holy Spirit. He then might well be inspired to communicate an aspect of Scripture providing proper guidance to the believing student how best to follow God’s Plan.

This is a different phenomenon than studying the Bible alone, or independently of being in fellowship with God through faith in Christ, or having not confessed one’s sins, known and unknown, prior to study.

The spiritual gift of Pastor-Teacher, a communication gift involving the human spirit of the pastor-teacher, is NOT simply a talent for public speaking or the consequence of many years of Bible Study.

Such a study outside of being filled by the Holy Spirit excludes the human spirit and sanctification of the soul, mind and heart, from His work. Instead, such an independent study is nothing more than “soulishness” or academic study. Such a method actually scars the soul, both in mind and in heart, away from righteous inculcation of true faith.

WRT to article, in many ways, it really doesn’t matter what language is being used, or translation is being used in the study. What really matters is that the true Word of God is being thought by the student. When the true Word of God is thought, through faith in Christ, then God the Holy Spirit makes that true Word understood to the human spirit.

One can read the explicit true Word of God, but if not through faith in Christ, still will not understand in the mind, nor in the heart, that true knowledge. Conversely, a believer in fellowship with God, through faith in Christ, may be read even a poor translation, and still God the Holy Spirit may take the proper Word, make it undestood by the human spirit, a purely spiritual phenomenon perceived through faith in Christ, and continue to make one true idea known to the mind, then later to the heart, then available for future recall, and utility, again through faith in Christ, when the believer is tested, or as a good work, only through faith in Christ.

With this stated, it really doesn’t matter too much if there are many different slight variations in the printed Bible, or at least those differences are negligible when compared to the more significant issue of the believing student of the Word, to remain in fellowship with God prior to and during study of His Word, thereby placing him/herself in a humble position where God the Holy Spirit can do all the work in sanctification of the believer.

Far too many believers are scarred into thinking they have to do more work in becoming sanctified than is required. In fact it is well argued that ANY work performed by the believer in the sanctification process negates the sanctification, because it turns the relationship between God and man into a debt rather than an act of grace, thereby forming a situation contradictory to His Plan to provide ALL faith to man.

Granted, it is wise not to study from a Bible known to be purposefully translated so as to communicate a set of false doctrines. More importantly, in the proper study of His Word, by remaining in fellowship with Him, many fine points of Scripture are more frequently and quickly perceived by the soul when studying His Word from a good translation. But even with good translations, frequently we have been so scarred in our past thinking that we easily slip into reading OUR meaning into His Word, rather than allowing Him to communicate His Word into us.


18 posted on 01/05/2008 8:56:00 AM PST by Cvengr (Every believer is a grenade. Arrogance is the grenade pin. Pull the pin and fragment your life.)
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To: endthematrix

IMHO, those inspired by textual criticism have forgone a much richer study, namely that provided by God the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ, and are counterfeiting His Word with a simple academic study of a set of translated books.


19 posted on 01/05/2008 8:59:00 AM PST by Cvengr (Every believer is a grenade. Arrogance is the grenade pin. Pull the pin and fragment your life.)
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To: TheDon

It is a really interesting book, although it’s been out for a couple of years now.


20 posted on 01/05/2008 9:01:51 AM PST by Amelia (Cynicism ON)
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To: Cvengr

Well said.


21 posted on 01/05/2008 1:24:12 PM PST by TheDon
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To: Cvengr
From the article linked in post 17:

Christians should have gratitude, if I may intrude with my own opinion, for scholars putting in so much time and energy and for clarifying the NT. Somebody has to do this thankless yeoman's work, done often behind the scenes, with no glamour.

I think biblical textual criticism scholars are in the same class as the scribes we have to thank for the Bible. Someone has to do the work. And they certainly are able to ponder the words in depth as they work. Who can say if they are not inspired in their work. However, it is, as you say, a different effort than that we all are engaged in as we read and study the Bible for the spiritual benefits to be gained in this life, and the life to come.

22 posted on 01/05/2008 1:30:05 PM PST by TheDon
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To: TheDon

As long as that effort is performed while the yeoman is in fellowship with Him, through faith in Christ, allowing God to Guide Him in his effort, then there may indeed be those involved in ‘textual criticism’ performing a sound unrecognized work.

I suspect, though, that far more practitioners of textual criticism are inspired either by their own thinking independent of Him, as in an academic perspective, or even in an attempt to quench the Spirit driven by demonic influence.

In regards to divine inspiration, it is possible for an author to pen a phrase he had never used or heard of before, simply being spiritually driven through faith in Christ by the work of God the Holy Spirit. This may have been especially true in the original canon of Scripture. Accordingly, textual criticism in many cases begs the question, attempting to judge the author by his product in soulish criterion, rather than accepting the continuing work of God the Holy Spirit in the renewing of our mind daily through faith in Him.


23 posted on 01/05/2008 2:08:21 PM PST by Cvengr (Every believer is a grenade. Arrogance is the grenade pin. Pull the pin and fragment your life.)
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To: TheDon
More Bible links:

Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)

Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary

Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online

Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words

A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)

Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds

Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?

Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]

Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?

Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)

Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus

Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible

Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible

How Tradition Gave Us the Bible

24 posted on 01/05/2008 2:14:44 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: TheDon

Do Mormons believe the Bible is the Word of God?

Do they also believe that the Bible has been corrupted?

Is this why you posted the article?


25 posted on 01/05/2008 4:03:01 PM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; Greg F; ...

Attacking the Bible Ping


26 posted on 01/05/2008 5:52:40 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Mitt willingly gives up his personal freedoms to his church..why would he protect YOURS!)
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To: greyfoxx39; All
For those more into hearing discussion here is a link to a nice discussion at 'bethinking.org'. [ Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus": an analysis Peter J. Williams http://www.bethinking.org/resource.php?ID=338&TopicID=1&CategoryID=2 ]
27 posted on 01/05/2008 6:01:22 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: All
HOW YOU CAN TELL IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE

There are many excellent scholars who have devoted their ministries to the question of whether the Bible is true. Some of the disciplines they represent include: archeology, history, linguistics, philosophy and the sciences. Together, they have accumulated a massive body of evidence which would fill a large library.

Perhaps the best place to start is with the writings of Josh McDowell. Over the past four decades, Josh has lectured on more than 650 university and college campuses to more than seven million people in 74 countries. For years, he would debate the question of the accuracy of the Bible with any college professor foolish enough to accept his challenge. Josh has written 77 books on apologetics to date. They have sold tens of millions of copies and have been translated into more than 50 languages. Some of his more popular titles include: New Evidence that Demands a Verdict, More Than a Carpenter, and The Resurrection Factor. You can purchase a copy of these books at any Christian bookstore, or through merchants such as Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble.

28 posted on 01/05/2008 6:17:16 PM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: Zakeet

Josh McDowell has been instrumental in helping some of my family...understand the Way, the Truth and the Life.


29 posted on 01/05/2008 6:22:12 PM PST by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
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To: TheDon

Do you realize that Ehrman calls himself a happy agnostic now? He missuses statistics to lie (’400,000 variants is more than the total number of words in the NT’; the ‘sayings of Jesus are not for the most part direct quotes since no one was writing things down on a daily basis’) Is there some agenda you have in mind for posting this article, as if this man is to be depended upon by Christians? Or is it just yet another Mormonism effort to degrade faith in the Bible, sort of a stealth ‘as far as it is translated correctly’ Mormon plea in the oblique to denigrate the integrity of the Bible?


30 posted on 01/05/2008 6:38:04 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: TheDon; James R. McClure Jr.; motoman; mgist; gpapa; roughman; Not gonna take it anymore; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

The popular perception of the Bible as a divinely perfect book receives scant support from Ehrman, who sees in Holy Writ ample evidence of human fallibility and ecclesiastical politics.
All who are True Christians will take severe umbrage at this outrage. I look forward to your comments.
31 posted on 01/05/2008 6:53:28 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: MHGinTN; TheDon

Perchance a Mormon agenda?


32 posted on 01/05/2008 6:55:09 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: narses

The poster of the thread is an active Mormonism apologist at FR and a Romney platooner. There is no doubt in my mind that there is an agenda, but how deeply back to the Romney campaign I cannot determine. The Mittster’s handlers may have finally realized what a mountain they have to climb to get this Mormon religion into tolerance position so Mitt can buy the nomination. For weeks we have been ‘treated’ to a denigration of the Bible in Mormonism efforts to make fertile ground for sowing the Mormon religious manuscripts. This thread is a second this evening trying to raise doubts regarding the efficacy of the Bible ... very stealthily of course. I may have to post the heretical posts of another apologist who tried to rasie doubt as to the birth of Jesus. It is getting insidious and astonishing in scope from the Mormonism apologists.


33 posted on 01/05/2008 7:06:25 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: papagall

Ping


34 posted on 01/05/2008 7:07:15 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Ouch. Thanks. Perhaps the question needs to be asked, is this what FR ought to be hosting?


35 posted on 01/05/2008 7:08:27 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: kaehurowing

Jesus was from Wisconsin?????? WOW!!!


36 posted on 01/05/2008 7:16:15 PM PST by terycarl (G)
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To: TheDon

I’ve been reminded to ping you. Since you posted the thread I thought you would keep up with it. Here’s your sign, er I mean, here’s your ping.


37 posted on 01/05/2008 7:43:01 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: TheDon

How many books in your Bible?

If it is less than the Catholic Bible then your denomination would be among those who changed it. (Which is a way is blasphemous, because the Bible is the inspired Word of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.)


38 posted on 01/05/2008 7:50:46 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

I use the KJV. I take it you use the Catholic version.


39 posted on 01/05/2008 8:03:27 PM PST by TheDon
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To: TheDon; greyfoxx39
Why do you have a problem with the texts of the Bible when you have LDS BYU profs like Stephen E. Robinson who don't?

"There is not a single verse of the Bible that I do not believe. It is the postbiblical interpretation that I reject." (Robinson, How Wide the Divide?, IVP p. 72)

[Never mind that any LDS interpretation of the Bible is likewise, postbiblical]

Robinson, in fact, was so emphatic in this that he saod twice: "There isn't a single verse of the Bible that I do not personally accept and believe, although I do reject the interpretive straightjacket imposed on the Bible by the Hellenized church after the apostles passed from the scene." (p. 59)

Beyond this, why would the LDS church spend millions of $ in advertising, promoting, & giving away for free something that is supposedly "manipulated" & would therefore be deemed less reliable?

40 posted on 01/06/2008 2:58:04 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: MHGinTN

Just saw your post...running behind...anyway, ;)


41 posted on 01/06/2008 3:07:20 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Mitt willingly gives up his personal freedoms to his church..why would he protect YOURS!)
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To: TheDon

TO ALL WHO WANT TO HELP US TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE ABOUT CHRIST AND HOW HE GUIDES HIS PEOPLE ON EARTH.

If this thread is like most others that have anything to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or as we are more often called, the Mormons, it will soon be taken over by those who, for reasons of their own, choose to put down my Church, and those of us who worship with it.

We find no problem with people who really want to talk to us about converting to their religion, we spend a lot of time doing it ourselves.

What we find offensive is when people leave out part of the truth to make a half-true lie , or when some one renames something, that we find important or sacred, so it sounds like gutter talk.

I do not know how to tell the difference all the time. There are some Handles that keep showing up, and they are easy to spot. Sometimes, though, I have given a hard and not so kind response to some who honestly care for us and our salvation.

Please forgive us if we get you mixed up.

Thanks for your time,
fred


42 posted on 01/06/2008 4:53:40 PM PST by fproy2222
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To: Colofornian
"There isn't a single verse of the Bible that I do not personally accept and believe, although I do reject the interpretive straightjacket imposed on the Bible by the Hellenized church after the apostles passed from the scene."

I have to agree.

43 posted on 01/06/2008 6:03:50 PM PST by TheDon
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