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St. Padre Pio's body to be exhumed, displayed for veneration
Catholic News Service ^ | Jan-8-2008 | Catholic News Service

Posted on 01/26/2008 7:47:14 AM PST by Ottofire

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To: raygunfan
many of the saints bodies are incorrupt, defying so-call science....just another sign of God’s power to his people

God's people do not need signs of His power...We walk by faith, not by sight...

We have the witness of the Holy Spirit...

If you did happen to come across a preserved dead body, there'd be no way to tell if if was preserved by God, or Satan...

41 posted on 01/27/2008 2:44:42 AM PST by Iscool
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To: annalex
When Padre Pio is displayed, we’ll send you a picture.

Going to hang 'em on the wall, in between the deer head and the pet poodle???

42 posted on 01/27/2008 2:46:37 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool; raygunfan; annalex

“God’s people do not need signs of His power...We walk by faith, not by sight...”

Is that why the thousands of “ecclesial groups” seem to be walking in so many different directions, I?

The veneration of relics is nearly as old as The Church itself, I. No one says you have to believe in the power of relics, though the overwhelming majority of Christians today do and always and everywhere have. I must say, however, that if I believed in the sort of God you folks do, One Whose apparently all consuming wrath at His creation could only be assuaged by the bloody torture death of His completely innocent Son, I’d probably leave off the scorn lest it turn out that I’m wrong and The Church right.


43 posted on 01/27/2008 6:01:11 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

>The veneration of relics is nearly as old as The Church itself, I. No one says you have to believe in the power of relics, though the overwhelming majority of Christians today do and always and everywhere have. I must say, however, that if I believed in the sort of God you folks do, One Whose apparently all consuming wrath at His creation could only be assuaged by the bloody torture death of His completely innocent Son, I’d probably leave off the scorn lest it turn out that I’m wrong and The Church right.

Actually the veneration of relics used by God is much older than Christianity:

2 Kings 18

1Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.

2He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty-nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother’s name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.

3 He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.

4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.

5 He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him.

6For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses.

Note that the bronze snake, commanded by God for the salvation of the people of Israel in the desert from the poisonous snakes is venerated.

Note that a righteous King of Judah, clinging to the Lord and the laws of Moses, destroyed this idol when the sons of Israel venerate it by burning incense to it. This was destroyed alongside the Asherah, the idols to the Queen of Heaven.


44 posted on 01/27/2008 7:51:28 AM PST by Ottofire (For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God)
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To: Zuriel
"Put any one of these bodies out in the sunshine, in the tropical heat of the equatorial regions, then come back a week later."

Last I heard, exposed bodies decomposed at the latitude of France, too. And yet St. Bernadette's body has not so decomposed. That is the whole point of what "incorruptibility" means, and is another physical proof of a miracle.

45 posted on 01/27/2008 8:13:18 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Iscool

If you do not understand something, it is wise not to mock it.


46 posted on 01/27/2008 9:19:21 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Iscool

You:

many of the saints bodies are incorrupt, defying so-call science....just another sign of God’s power to his people
God’s people do not need signs of His power...We walk by faith, not by sight...

We have the witness of the Holy Spirit...

If you did happen to come across a preserved dead body, there’d be no way to tell if if was preserved by God, or Satan...

ME: first, if we have only the witness of the holy spirit, then there would be no need for the many signs Christ performed after his ressurection

secondly, it would make no sense for satan to be involved in incorruptible christian bodies, as these examples, DRAW PEOPLE CLOSER TO CHRIST...and i know of only one person in the last 2000 plus years that draws people to Him...


47 posted on 01/27/2008 9:40:22 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: Ottofire

I should have pinged you to my post #22.


48 posted on 01/27/2008 9:50:43 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Wonder Warthog

I don’t care how ‘healthy it looks, can you make it function again? If the heart, brain, lungs, etc. are irrepairable, it is corrupted!

That is so typical of the RC/EO system which relies so much on the outside, the visual aides, using countless statues, paintings, ‘icons’, relics, etc. that are just another form of the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life.

The apostles refused and rebuked any veneration toward themselves, pointing souls to Jesus Christ.

When you’ve truly been filled with the Holy Ghost, the last thing you are going to do is dig up dead bodies to ‘venerate’. The ‘harvest’ that the Lord demands is done during the day, when there is the light of life, not in the darkness of death.


49 posted on 01/27/2008 9:56:28 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel
"I don’t care how ‘healthy it looks, can you make it function again? If the heart, brain, lungs, etc. are irrepairable, it is corrupted!"

Of course, only God can do that, but that isn't the point. The point is that the body hasn't been subject to the natural processes of decay. If not a miracle, then how do you account for the immunity to that "universal" natural process??

"That is so typical of the RC/EO system which relies so much on the outside, the visual aides, using countless statues, paintings, ‘icons’, relics, etc. that are just another form of the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life.

There's nothing wrong with using visual aids. The PURPOSE of all those "visual aids" (if you bother to study history) is to EDUCATE the congregation in the faith. You've got to remember that up until Gutenberg, the vast majority of peopl e COULD NOT READ. So all those things you refer to were teaching aids to help in understanding the faith. The rest of the sentence about "lust this and lust that" is simply BS.

"The apostles refused and rebuked any veneration toward themselves, pointing souls to Jesus Christ."

Of course they did. But this didn't keep even their shadows from having miraculous effects.

"When you’ve truly been filled with the Holy Ghost, the last thing you are going to do is dig up dead bodies to ‘venerate’." "The ‘harvest’ that the Lord demands is done during the day, when there is the light of life, not in the darkness of death."

Actually, the Lord works anywhere and everywhere He wills, light or dark.

50 posted on 01/27/2008 10:10:56 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog

**Of course, only God can do that, but that isn’t the point. The point is that the body hasn’t been subject to the natural processes of decay**

The point is..IT HAS DECAYED. It cannot function, there is no life in it ..AT..ALL.

**So all those things you refer to were teaching aids..**

The Holy Ghost does the teaching, not statues, and definitely not dead, corrupted, corpses.

**their shadows**

Shadows of living, breathing, Holy Ghost filled saints of God.

**Actually, the Lord works anywhere and everywhere He wills, light or dark.**

That’s either a dodge, or my comment on light and darkness was misunderstood. Jesus said work while it is day, for the night cometh when no man can work. When the light of life is gone from a man his work is over; so IMO, leave him in the grave.

I close my testimony in this thread saying, IMO, that the defense of displaying dead bodies, after they have been buried for some time, is (as Paul would say) vain babblings.


51 posted on 01/27/2008 10:46:03 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Ottofire; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration; wmfights; WileyPink; FourtySeven; Alamo-Girl

With such a paucity of idols

I can understand how the RC magicsterical needs to excume more bodies for more idols.

Cute

/s

Veneration—my big toe. a rose is a rose is a rose.

And so is idolatry.


52 posted on 01/27/2008 11:19:02 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Ottofire

‘Oh, must you always talk of corpse digging?’


53 posted on 01/27/2008 11:42:04 AM PST by onedoug
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To: raygunfan
ME: first, if we have only the witness of the holy spirit, then there would be no need for the many signs Christ performed after his ressurection

Jesus Christ was a witness to the Jews...Jesus didn't teach of the Gentile adoption into the church...

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Jesus has the words of eternal life...We Christians don't need signs...

secondly, it would make no sense for satan to be involved in incorruptible christian bodies, as these examples, DRAW PEOPLE CLOSER TO CHRIST...and i know of only one person in the last 2000 plus years that draws people to Him...

Then you are a perfect candidate for deception...Satan doesn't hang around in the bars and opium dens...Satan does his business in the churches...And he can mimic any sign and wonder that Jesus can do...

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And if you are fooling with the untruth of Satan, God will help you right along...God says 'Thy word is truth'...

If you are going against the truth of God, here's how God deals with it:

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

If it was me, I'd be searching for some real stong evidence in the Holy Scriptures to verify and justify digging up dead bodies for use as an aid to worship, or for any reason...

54 posted on 01/27/2008 12:03:39 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Wonder Warthog
There's nothing wrong with using visual aids. The PURPOSE of all those "visual aids" (if you bother to study history) is to EDUCATE the congregation in the faith.

In the faith of what, exactly???

55 posted on 01/27/2008 12:06:13 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool

and again, you miss the point, if satan were manifesting these signs, THEY ARE DRAWING PEOPLE TO CHRIST, DO YOU GET IT???

shouldnt they be drawer folks away from Christ?

but, as you said, you have no proof either way...way not opt for obvious, a sign that is DRAWING FOLKS TO CHRIST, is from Christ....

unless you can prove these incorruptile saints are drawing folks AWAY from Christ, then you are simply wrong...


56 posted on 01/27/2008 1:13:16 PM PST by raygunfan
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To: Zuriel
No, the point is that is has NOT decayed. It is miraculously preserved and waiting for the return of its owner.

"The Holy Ghost does the teaching, not statues, and definitely not dead, corrupted, corpses."

Dead, but not corrupt. And I assume that in your so-called "Sunday school class" the teachers never use pictures?? The Holy Spirit uses anything available to get the point across.

"That’s either a dodge, or my comment on light and darkness was misunderstood. Jesus said work while it is day, for the night cometh when no man can work. When the light of life is gone from a man his work is over; so IMO, leave him in the grave."

Where, precisely did Christ ever say "leave him in the grave"?? Chapter and verse, please.

"I close my testimony in this thread saying, IMO, that the defense of displaying dead bodies, after they have been buried for some time, is (as Paul would say) vain babblings."

Actually, the only "vain babblings" around here, have been yours.

57 posted on 01/27/2008 3:03:50 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Iscool
"In the faith of what, exactly???"

Christ, of course. Just like any other picture, videotape, internet posting, or non-Bible book used to teach.

Is this SO difficult to grasp.

58 posted on 01/27/2008 3:06:00 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog; Iscool
Christ, of course. Just like any other picture, videotape, internet posting, or non-Bible book used to teach.

Is this SO difficult to grasp.

Does the Word of Elohim mean anything to you ?

NAsbU Deuteronomy 4:16 so that you do not act corruptly and make a
graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure,
the likeness of male or female,.....

b'SHEM Yah'shua
59 posted on 01/27/2008 3:16:43 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt
"Deuteronomy 4:16 so that you do not act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,....."

Let's see. Standard disclaimer, Old Testament. Moses, snakebites, bronze serpent. That constitutes a miraculous physical object, eh??

And of course, the real meaning of the phrase you quote is the part you left off, about worshipping the objects themselves. NO Catholic icon is worshipped in and of itself, it is simply a reminder of the specific manifestation of Christ or one of his "agents" (i.e. the Virgin Mary), and ALWAYS leads directly to God.

Indeed, probably some un-educated Catholics, having been badly catechized, fall into superstition--but that is NEVER the teaching of the Church, and never has been.

60 posted on 01/27/2008 3:56:16 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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