Posted on 01/29/2008 1:53:39 PM PST by pray4liberty
Voddie Baucham advocates Christians pulling their children out of government-run schools. He has a response for those who say they can't afford private education or home-schooling -- find a way.
(Excerpt) Read more at onenewsnow.com ...
*Ping*
Why doesn’t any politician have the balls to give out vouchers? SCHOOL CHOICE? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Don’t know who Voddie Baucham is but our family found a way this year and we’re putting 4 children through private Christian school ... *not cheap*
I think it is because that they send THEIR kids to private schools. They don’t want to let “those people” to have access to that kind of education.
Typical. That and the teachers unions are worse than the clintoons.
We live in TAX HEAVEN, New Jersey.
The schools there are atrocious.
Please add me to your ping list. Thanks
Hey! If Harvard can have a $35 Billion dollar endowment, why aren’t Christians doing this for Christian private vouchers to private Christian schools?
Geeze! Even the prep school Exeter has a nearly $1 BILLION dollar endowment!
Government is giving education away for FREE. The only way to combat this price-fixed, babysitting, pagan, monopoly on education is to match the government price of FREE. Christians are wealthy enough that!. If they WANTED, they could completely break the government monopoly and even shut down every one of these “pagan” schools. The first step is to get the kids out. The best way to do that is with private vouchers.
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Four thoughts on this:
1) Far too many ministers are not moving forward on Christian education because they are fearful of offending the government teachers and government school employees sitting in the pews! Why don’t we have a vigorous, healthy and universal system of Christian education for every child in the U.S. FOLLOW THE MONEY! Follow the money from the purse of the government school employee to the collection plate!
2) Christian churches should abandon the Prussian school institutional model. It is expensive and it unnatural to treat children like prisoners. With today’s technology micro-schools, mini-schools, homeschool cooperatives, one room school houses, and virtual schools are completely possible and likely FAR superior, more flexible for parents, and definitely more humane.
3) Christian schools should work to break the government monopoly on team sports.
4) We should stop holding up Christian government school teachers as if they were models of virtue. They aren’t! They are big part of the problem!
Any government school teacher who thinks they can sneak in a little bit of Christian morality into a mountain of pagan cow dung, is fooling themselves. Instead, they are teaching the students that Christians are sneaky, too timid to vigorously protest the pagan NEA agenda, and will sell their most precious principles for paycheck, pension, and pagan union card! Wow! Who would want to accept a religion like that with models like these?
teachers unions
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Who are the people responsible for the NEA? Who the people that elect their union reps?
If unions are the problem, then it is government teachers who are completely responsible!
The separation of church and state is a myth. The reality is government persecution of the church.
Well.....not exactly.
Then we should blame the teachers. These are the people who write the checks and send them to the NEA. These are the people who elect their union reps. If unions are the problem is it because TEACHERS are the problem.
This is another reason why the Prussian model institutional school should be abandoned. Churches should instead be organizing homeschool coops, micro-schools, mini-schools, one room schools that meet in members' homes. Not only is it far less expensive, it avoids direct confrontation with government teacher influenced zoning boards. Small, school groups provide a more humane and natural learning environment for the child, and offer more flexibility for working parents.
Oh! And,,,Don't forget that there are plenty of self proclaimed Christian teachers who are frustrating the development of private Christian schools. They are doing it with their union dues, and in many other ways as well. Christian teachers pressure their ministers not to open schools. These are the very people actively lobbying against vouchers and tax credits. Hey! There were armies of self-proclaimed Christian teachers in Utah last October frustrating vouchers for private schools. Am I nominating these despicable Christian teachers for the Mother Teresa award? Not on your life, I'm not!
They get to the politicians who pile on all sorts of "regulations" to hold things up. It's been rumored that some even invoke eminent domain to bulldoze down the church itself, if they can get away with it.>
By "they", you must mean TEACHERS ( many of whom are self-proclaimed Christian teachers) get the politicians to regulate Christian schools out of existence.
Unfortunately, the teachers unions are so powerful that they have been shutting down every effort churches have made trying to start their own private church school. They get to the politicians who pile on all sorts of "regulations" to hold things up. It's been rumored that some even invoke eminent domain to bulldoze down the church itself, if they can get away with it.
There is only one group responsible for the teachers unions! TEACHERS! If unions are to blame, then blame the teachers. Also,,,remember,,,that among their ranks are thousands upon thousands of self-identified Christian teachers that are pushing forward the pagan cause!
The separation of church and state is a myth. The reality is government persecution of the church.
Someone should print up a bumper sticker: "If you are a persecuted Christian. Thank a government teacher!
And,,,there are PLENTY of Christian teachers who are actively helping, aiding, supporting abetting, and pushing forward, with that persecution.
I can’t disagree at all with your post.
The “education complex” is more than just the teachers unions. They are just a handy name to use to point out the problems of government interference. The complex is huge and goes up and down the halls of government. Federal, State and local, all these groups and all these people profiting from the incarceration of children for their financial benefit. It disgusts me.
Well.....not exactly.
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It is free to the parent. It costs the strong armed taxpayer about $13,000 to $15,000 per child per year in my state.
Anyway,,,If we are to break the government monopoly that is giving away education with a price tag to the parent of FREE, then Christians will need to match that price.
Honestly, with the BILLION dollar endowments that our colleges and universities enjoy ( as well as some elite prep schools) surely Christians could do the same for private foundations awarding private vouchers to private schools.
I believe you. They are even taxing you if you leave NJ!!
I truly doubt that the powers that be will ever give the benefit of private education to the masses. I homeschool and even that is a sacrifice. Kudos to you for sacrificing for your children.
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Children who have committed no crime are treated like prisoners!
At least prisoners have one advantage. They are subjected to non-stop proselytizing in government religion of Secular Humanism.
I truly doubt that the powers that be will ever give the benefit of private education to the masses.
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That is why Christians must do this for themselves! They must stop waiting for the government “Godot” of vouchers or tax credits. Christians should have their OWN private voucher foundations.
Christians need to change their thinking. One of the first things they should abandon is the concept of the expensive and inflexible Prussian brick and mortar school, and look to the new technology when designing a school.
all these people profiting from the incarceration of children for their financial benefit. It disgusts me.
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I know it makes a lot people mad here on Free Republic,,,BUT,,,self-proclaimed Christians ( thousands upon thousands of them government teachers) that aid, abet, assist, help, and push forward this pagan government indoctrination and incarceration of children disgust me MORE than than the non-Christians doing this!
Christians that would do this, disgust me! It disgusts me the most when Christian teachers expect to be respected and admired for it! (barf!)
We HATE NJ.
Hope to leave some day SOON!
Excellent analysis!
Agreed. It won’t be easy, it won’t come so even if the will is there. But not impossible.
*not cheap*
There may be some scholarships that your children can qulify for.
No doubt about that either. The establishment government schools are secularist monasteries and very much part of the anti-church arm of the humanist creed shoved down the throats of children. That is why some here on FR just freak at any comment that is against the powers that be. Some I understand have made other choices for their children. But alot just love the “anti-church” and follow its precepts. They don’t want others to leave the “church” and think for themselves. It is “their” religion.
Parents need to start pulling their children out and homeschool them or start what was called "dame schools." We need to come up with our own innovative solutions. We all know how crooked the school system is. Let's get our kids out, one child at a time.
“Why doesn’t any politician have the balls to give out vouchers? SCHOOL CHOICE? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?”
Vouchers are not the answer. I could write a mini-novel on why vouchers don’t make good sense, but I’ll stress what I think is the most important reason: government money always comes with strings attached. Always. And those strings will most likely be seen in the curriculum. Don’t like “Heather has two Mommies”? You’ll *really* dislike it when it’s required to be part of the curriculum at private schools in order to preserve their government voucher handout.
I don’t see why one form of welfare, government school vouchers, are so much better than the other forms of welfare such as food stamps, AFDC, or the government schools.
There is also the anti-intellectualism of the schools. The “progressive” ideology works against traditional academic learning, as the liberal political scientist Richard Hofstader pointed out nearly fifty years ago. After Sputnin there was a “surge” of reform of math and science in the schools, but that faded away with the romanticism of the ‘60s, when indoctrination in correct values of a larger and larger school population became the priority again. The most recent reforms based on the notion that testing can improve outcomes has further reduced the time alloted to traditional academics. The developers of the first public high schools would shocked by the amount of time and energy spent in just warehousing the bulk of the pre-18 population.
“How this - stop TAXING ME for public schools since our child doesn’t attend one. Tax those whose kids attend a public school. I shouldn’t have to subsidize their disaster.”
Agreed. But it isn’t going to happen.
At least you have the option of taking your own kids out.
Who knows how long it will last ... it’s not cheap ... .
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It can happen.
What is needed is for enough parents to leave the government system. They are voters and they and their kids are attached to relatives, friends, and neighbors that pay taxes and vote as well. Also,,,,The population is aging. There will be fewer households with kids. People on retirement incomes are especially unhappy with high property taxes. As homeschooling grows it will not go unnoticed that homeschoolers have superior outcomes ( socially and academically) on literally pennies a day.
Also,,,I am noticing a change.
It used to be that when I mentioned that I homeschooled my kids, I was the one who had to defend my choice. Now, it seems that it is parents whose kids who attend government schools are the those giving the excuses and explanations. I hear, “My husband and I both have to work.”, or “It’s one of the ‘good’ government schools.” “My child is ‘special needs’.”,etc. It’s as if, now, the superiority of homeschooling and inferiority of government incarceration is automatically acknowledged.
Hopefully, we can get to the point where teachers start apologizing, explaining, and offering excuses for working in the government schools. Most of all, I hope self-proclaimed Christian teachers will start feeling embarrassed for the harm they are doing.
(Mosby,,,This is your cue for posting your big brown spam. )
Oh Yeah ... Please continue, Tell me more.
I’m not hugely knowlegable about it, but I know there are some out there.
Are you from Texas, as your name seems to indicate?
I may have found something you could use. Here is the link, good luck to you!
http://www.freegrantskit.info/privateschools.htm
Yep
Also, Thanks for the link ...
Look! More "SELF-PROCLAIMED-CHRISTIAN-TEACHER" insults and spam from WINTERTIME...(((GOOD DAY)))
ahhh, for once in my life, I’m ahead of the curve.
“Christian teachers in public schools”
from Making a Homeschool Decision by Marilyn Howshall
“I wish to address two possible categories of Christian teachers in the system-those who think of it as their mission-ground and those who are career-oriented simply because their children are in school.
I have heard it said many times by Christian teachers in the system that they are there to contribute to positive changes and improve the system in some way. If we look closely at this principle we will be able to see that this will only work upon condition.
A foundation always determines what is to be built. Jesus Christ must be the original foundation in order to continue godly building. In the early years of our country, schools were run by churches and parents but slowly the government was given more and more authority. We were not careful how we build upon our intuition and the day has revealed the results-it crumbled. Today we no longer have a godly school foundation on which to build.
The principle suggests that if one desires something different he must lay his own foundation. There are examples of this principle at work throughout history. The Pilgrims and Puritans had differing views as to how to bring about change to the church of their time-the Church of England. The Pilgrims felt they must leave and begin afresh following God into the application of the wonderful truths they uncovered in the Word of God. The Puritans felt they must stay and work within the church to bring about change. Both groups of godly Christians had been enlightened by the Word of God but they had very different approaches for how to bring about change. The day has revealed the results, the fruit is unmistakable and lasting. The Pilgrims brought an enlightened Gospel to a new nation and were significantly used in its beginnings. The Puritans remained within the existing structure of the church and while they may have affected individuals within that organization, they did little to bring about any significant changes to its life. There is a valid reason why it works this way, it is scriptural!
“According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.” I Corinthians 3:10-14
As you study church history you will be able to see this principle at work. Whenever God wanted to increase revelation, a break away from the old was necessary to establish the new. When a government, church, or educational system, becomes corrupt, or simply refuses to embrace additional growth, then making changes within the establishment will not bring about the desired results unless those changes are initiated by the leadership involved. Any changes within an already established organization, to be effectively made must begin from the top down because that is where the vision is. Everything flows out from the vision of the leadership.
When leaders stand still or hinder the work of God, He will lay new foundations elsewhere. Tremendous fruit will grow from a new foundation, but those who stand still will often feel threatened by the new move of God and respond in favorably toward it. It must surely be a fundamental defect of our sinful human nature that produces the short-sighted and arrogance to think that God’s work begins and ends with our efforts and those of our own generation. We must be willing to acknowledge God at work and allow it to continue through us to the next generation, as growth will continue from generation to generation; either by existing leadership who will embrace change or by newly ordained leadership of God’s choosing.
While there are many teachers who are called to remain in the system, I believe that God’s reasons for them to be there are more people related than system related. God’s will is for His people to reach individuals with the Gospel no matter where we find ourselves. The teacher who is able to witness in addition to impacting the lives of children and other teachers with a sense of healthy values and live of learning will earn a reward. I do wonder, however, how many teachers who also have young children of their own would continue to think it their personal mission-ground if they had to conduct their ministry within the context of a different set of values-one that would include personally assuming responsibility for their own young children’s education. Ministry is not our reason for being someplace. It is our responsibility to know for sure where God wants us to be; which set of responsibilities He wishes us to assume for our life, and which roles we are to play. Healthy and fruitful ministry can only flow out of an obedient life. If this speaks to you, then you might seriously consider that God would have you do.
Another category of teachers in the system is in regards to the career-minded Mom who is there simply because that is where her own children are-it is their family’s lifestyle-the children go to school and Mom gets a job or pursues a career of her own. If you have simply assumed roles and lifestyles placed upon you by cultural values without seeking God about it then please reconsider and spend a season listening to Him speak to your heart.”
Well?,,,,It may be that there are a very **few** Christian teachers who have a **true** calling to be teaching in the government schools. My question to them would be, "OK!,,Just exactly how are you doing that?" The rest are merely self-deluded while they happily pick up their paychecks.
85% of children of Christian parents no longer practice their faith within 2 years of graduating from high school. Of those who do claim to be Christian their belief system is not gospel based but is a combination of "we should be fair", "feel good", New Agey mish mash. In contrast, 90% or more of homeschoolers remain faithful. Could the difference be due to the example of their **teachers**? ( I have links)
Christian teachers should examine their true role in the government schools. If Christian teachers are not **vigorously** protesting, resisting, and refusing to cooperate with the secular humanist, Marxist, atheistic, anti-Christian, anti-Westertern Civilization agenda of the government schools. Then they should get out!
Why?
If they aren't. If they are silent, if they try to go along, if they don't make waves, if they are not working strenuously to abolish the abominable NEA, reject offensive textbooks, protest offensive school programs and events, then they are setting a very poor example for the all the students ( Christian and non-Christian) as well as for all the non-Christian teachers.
For example, the Amherst, Mass. high school a few years ago had a "Vagina Monologues" week long festival. I don't recall Christian teachers outside the school protesting it.
The Christian teachers that I personally know are trying not to make waves, do not protest, and do everything possible to protect their jobs and paychecks. What they do is try to sneak a little Christian philosophy and thought ( without ever mentioning the words Jesus Christ, of course), into their lessons. They hope that, against all the odds, their their example will stand as a witness for Christ.
What about their example?
These Christian teachers are teaching by example, that Christianity is the religion of the weak, sneaky, timid and lukewarm. They are NOT helping the cause of Christianity. They are impeding it! Christ has said that he would spit these people out of his mouth! I am not surprised that the 85% of Christian kids who leave the religion have done so as well.
If Christian teachers think that they can bring students, and non-Christian teachers to Christ by being silent, weak, agreeable, and conforming,,,then I suggest that they also try putting out a forest fire with a water pistol!
There is another problem with government schools. Government schools and freedom of conscience and the First Amendment will always be in conflict. There is no such thing as a religiously neutral education. If it isn't Christian based then it will be based on some other religious ( non-Christian) philosophy
In the essay by Marilyn Howshall, she states,"A foundation always determines what is to be built. Jesus Christ must be the original foundation in order to continue godly building."
If Christian teachers were to be successful in restoring a Christ based foundation to the government schools, these Christian teachers would be trampling the freedom of conscience of many students who are in the school under police threat and do not want Christianity forced upon them. Many children are in government schools, because if they didn't show up, police action would taken against them and their parents. I don't think you will find anywhere in the gospels where Christ said we should subject people to Christian belief by threat of government police action! Nor does Christ preach that we should take taxes from people ( by threat of force) in order to pay for His message!
The Christian teacher is in a no win situation. If he is quiet and agreeable, he teaches student that Christians are timid, weak, and will sell their principles for a paycheck.
If he protests and aggressively counters the anti-family, pro-Marxist, atheistic agenda of the existing government schools, he just might win that battle. But,,,In winning this battle he would be violating the freedom of conscience of many of his students who do not want to be subjected to a Christ-based education!
The teacher who is able to witness in addition to impacting the lives of children and other teachers with a sense of healthy values and live of learning will earn a reward.
Ok, witness. But, don't be weak, timid, sneaky, or sly about it. Of course, that would get the teacher fired. Which by the way, would probably be the best example to set for non-Christian and all students to see.
I do wonder, however, how many teachers who also have young children of their own would continue to think it their personal mission-ground if they had to conduct their ministry within the context of a different set of values-one that would include personally assuming responsibility for their own young children’s education.
A Christian teacher's MOST urgent and important mission field is that of his or her OWN children!!! The second MOST important mission field is that of the children of his or her congregation!!!
Ministry is not our reason for being someplace. It is our responsibility to know for sure where God wants us to be; which set of responsibilities He wishes us to assume for our life, and which roles we are to play. Healthy and fruitful ministry can only flow out of an obedient life. If this speaks to you, then you might seriously consider that God would have you do.
While it is possible that there are some teachers with a true call to be in the government schools, I believe the rest are merely deluded, and seduced by a paycheck and pension.
Another category of teachers in the system is in regards to the career-minded Mom who is there simply because that is where her own children are-it is their family’s lifestyle-the children go to school and Mom gets a job or pursues a career of her own. If you have simply assumed roles and lifestyles placed upon you by cultural values without seeking God about it then please reconsider and spend a season listening to Him speak to your heart.”
The MOST important mission field of any Christian teacher is his or her OWN children!!
The second most important and urgent mission field of any Christian teacher is that of the children of his OWN congregation! (
MOsby,,Here is your cue for **your** big brown spam.)
In conclusion to posts #45 and #46:
Christian kids should get out of the government schools, and likely %99.999999 of the Christian teachers, as well!
Once again....not exactly.
It's "free" to some.....
The rest is your opinion, which you are completely entitled to.
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Are you a government school teacher who calls him or herself a Christian? Just wondering.
Any criticism that I may have posted of the government schools and particularly Christian teachers is somehow a criticism of YOU personally? Wow! What a LEAP!!!
I see this as a tactic to shut down all criticism of Christian teachers who claim to be Christian!
I have never claimed that my posts were anything other than MY opinion! And,,,in my opinion, teachers in government who claim to be Christian are in my opinion “so-called”. Why? Because, in my opinion, a true Christian teacher would have been fired or quit long ago! This is NOT a personal criticism of YOU, because I have absolutely NO idea what your profession might be!
So...feel free. Object any time, but,,,hey!,,,It isn’t my big brown spam, it is YOURS!
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