Posted on 01/31/2008 6:11:15 PM PST by Pyro7480
The New Testament contains five different metaphors for the foundation of the Church (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14). One metaphor that has been disputed is Jesus Christ’s calling the apostle Peter "rock": "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
Some have tried to argue that Jesus did not mean that his Church would be built on Peter but on something else.
Some argue that in this passage there is a minor difference between the Greek term for Peter (Petros) and the term for rock (petra), yet they ignore the obvious explanation: petra, a feminine noun, has simply been modifed to have a masculine ending, since one would not refer to a man (Peter) as feminine. The change in the gender is purely for stylistic reasons.
These critics also neglect the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."
The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show.
Tatian the Syrian
"Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it" (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]).
Tertullian
"Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).
"[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . What kind of man are you, subverting and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when he conferred this personally upon Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys" (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).
The Letter of Clement to James
Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter" (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).
The Clementine Homilies
"[Simon Peter said to Simon Magus in Rome:] ‘For you now stand in direct opposition to me, who am a firm rock, the foundation of the Church’ [Matt. 16:18]" (Clementine Homilies 17:19 [A.D. 221]).
Origen
"Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ built the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does our Lord say to him? ‘Oh you of little faith,’ he says, ‘why do you doubt?’ [Matt. 14:31]" (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 248]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).
"There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]).
"There [John 6:68–69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are secretly [i.e., invisibly] in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but it is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another" (ibid., 66[69]:8).
Firmilian
"But what is his error . . . who does not remain on the foundation of the one Church which was founded upon the rock by Christ [Matt. 16:18], can be learned from this, which Christ said to Peter alone: ‘Whatever things you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:19]" (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74[75]:16 [A.D. 253]).
"[Pope] Stephen [I] . . . boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid [Matt. 16:18]. . . . [Pope] Stephen . . . announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter" (ibid., 74[75]:17).
Ephraim the Syrian
"[Jesus said:] ‘Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples’" (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).
Optatus
"You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]—of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).
Ambrose of Milan
"[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church. . . . ’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?" (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).
"It is to Peter that he says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church is, no death is there, but life eternal" (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]).
Pope Damasus I
"Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has not been placed at the forefront [of the churches] by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it" (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).
Jerome
"‘But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division" (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]).
"I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails" (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]).
Augustine
"If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. ... In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found" (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).
Council of Ephesus
"Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome], said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 431]).
Sechnall of Ireland
"Steadfast in the fear of God, and in faith immovable, upon [Patrick] as upon Peter the [Irish] church is built; and he has been allotted his apostleship by God; against him the gates of hell prevail not" (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 3 [A.D. 444]).
Pope Leo I
"Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . has placed the principal charge on the blessed Peter, chief of all the apostles. . . . He wished him who had been received into partnership in his undivided unity to be named what he himself was, when he said: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18], that the building of the eternal temple might rest on Peter’s solid rock, strengthening his Church so surely that neither could human rashness assail it nor the gates of hell prevail against it" (Letters 10:1 [A.D. 445]).
Council of Chalcedon
"Wherefore the most holy and blessed Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod, together with the thrice blessed and all-glorious Peter the apostle, who is the rock and foundation of the Catholic Church, and the foundation of the orthodox faith, has stripped him [Dioscorus] of the episcopate" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 451]).
Matthew. 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church,shalom b'shem Yah'shua
Jesus said unto Peter; “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church”
One method of Hermeneutical understanding of Matthew 16:18
is to do a word study of all the scriptures which were then known
as the Holy Word of G-d when Yah'shua spoke these words.
This will allow one to understand that all of the Holy Word of G-d
was inspired by YHvH; the whole counsel of G-d.
The only conclusion that one can come to unless you are
predisposed to believe in man's tradition over the Holy Word of G-d
is that Yah'shua was speaking of himself as the "Rock "
e.g.
Genesis 49:24 But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed
[Or archers will attack...will shoot...will remain...will stay] supple,
because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
Deuteronomy 32:3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock , his works are perfect, and all his ways are
just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
Deuteronomy 32:15 ..... He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Saviour.
Deuteronomy 32:30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten
thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless
the LORD had given them up?
Deuteronomy 32:31 For their rock is not like our Rock , as even our enemies concede
Deuteronomy 32:32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness.
1 Samuel 2:2 "There is no-one holy [Or no Holy One] like the LORD;
there is no-one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:2 He said: "The LORD is my Rock , my fortress and my deliverer;
2 Samuel 22:3 my God is my Rock , in whom I take refuge, my shield and the
horn [Horn here symbolises strength.] of my salvation.
He is my stronghold, my refuge and my saviour — from violent men you save me.
2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
2 Samuel 22:47 "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God, the Rock , my Saviour!
2 Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me:
'When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
Psalm 18:31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
Psalm 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God my Saviour!
Psalm 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
Psalm 42:9 I say to God my Rock , "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
Psalm 78:35 They remembered that God was their Rock , that God Most High was their Redeemer.
Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Saviour.'
Psalm 92:15 ..... "YHvH is upright; he is my Rock , and there is no wickedness in him."
Psalm 95:1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
Psalm 144:1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock , who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy
One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to
execute judgment; O Rock , you have ordained them to punish.
This is flame/troll bait, right P? I assume that since you of all people know that “its not that simple”.
Not a single scriptural reference to prove or even suggest such a heresy could be true...
Except for the fact that Jesus is coming back SOON, we coulc imagine in a thousand years someone from your church would continue with the same false claim and they would say, ‘look at the proof; we have the historical writings of Pyro from 2008’...He confirms that Peter was the Rock...
And so what??? It’s meaningless...
“You are Peter, AND UPON THIS ROCK”,,,,,
They way you guys try to twist this verse doesn’t make sense in English, Greek, or Aramic...
I imagine Jesus is sickened by your claim that His grammar was that bad...
No -- Jesus spoke Hebrew, particularly around Jerusalem and especially when talking with the Jews, you know, those people whose language was Hebrew.
he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated).
And in Hebrew "Kepha" or "Cephas" means "a hollow rock" -- hardly something that you would want to build anything upon, much less a church.
It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."
No -- Jesus said "You are a hollow rock [cephas]" as opposed to the "solid rock [petra] upon which I will build my church".
You didn't even read the beginning of the article, right?
Hebrew wasn't widely spoken by that point in history. Jesus probably spoke in Hebrew to the Scribes and Pharisees, but with the common people, especially people in Galilee, he spoke Aramaic.
***No — Jesus spoke Hebrew, particularly around Jerusalem and especially when talking with the Jews, you know, those people whose language was Hebrew. ***
Wrong. Jesus spoke Aramaic. Hebrew was almost a dead language, relegated to the religious elite. He would probably have spoken Greek, which was the second language of most of the then civilized world, much like English is today.
Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).
Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.
Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.
Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.
Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.
Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.
Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.
Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.
Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus' curse on the fig tree.
Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.
Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.
Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.
Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the "fisher of men."
Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.
Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.
Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.
Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.
Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter's formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.
Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.
Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.
Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.
John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.
John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.
John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter's death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.
John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the "barque of Peter") is a metaphor for the Church.
John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.
John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.
John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.
Acts 1:13 - Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord's ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.
Acts 1:15 - Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn't it need one to Peter? Of course.
Acts 2:14 - Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.
Acts 2:38 - Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 3:1,3,4 - Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray.
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter works the first healing of the apostles.
Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 - Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.
Acts 5:3 - Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.
Acts 5:15 - Peter's shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.
Acts 8:14 - Peter is mentioned first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.
Acts 8:20-23 - Peter casts judgment on Simon's quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands. Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.
Acts 9:32-34 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.
Acts 9:38-40 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 10:5 - Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted this divine vision.
Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 - Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).
Acts 12:5 - this verse implies that the "whole Church" offered "earnest prayers" for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.
Acts 12:6-11 - Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolves the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.
Acts 15:12 - only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.
Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."
Rom. 15:20 - Paul says he doesn't want to build on "another man's foundation" referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.
1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:4-8 - Paul distinguishes Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”
Gal.1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ's Revelation to Paul.
1 Peter 5:1 - Peter acts as the chief bishop by "exhorting" all the other bishops and elders of the Church.
1 Peter 5:13 - Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First, this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city" of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.
2 Peter 1:14 - Peter writes about Jesus' prediction of Peter's death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that he would suffer.
2 Peter 3:16 - Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul's letters. Peter is the chief shepherd of the flock.
Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 - yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all servants.
Pure nonsense. The inscription on the cross was written in Latin, Greek and HEBREW. There was no Aramaic inscription on the cross, because they didn't speak it in and around Jerusalem and Judea.
Furthermore, it was Roman custom to put the inscription on the cross in three languages, one of which would be that language used by the person hanging there, so that he knew what his crime was and why he was dying. So unless you are going to tell us that Jesus' everyday language was Latin or Greek, then all you are left with is HEBREW. Once again the facts of the cross set the record straight.
And when Jesus called to Paul from heaven on the road to Damascus, he spoke to him in HEBREW -- not Aramaic or any other language.
And when Paul spoke to the crowds in Jerusalem, he did so in HEBREW -- not Aramaic or any other language.
Read your Bibles. Even my Catholic Bible says so ---
Thus Peter's name "Cephas" came from the Hebrew and means a "hollow rock". If the RCC has built itself upon "Cephas", its foundation is upon a "hollow rock" -- which explains a lot about its crumbling foundations and hollow arguments.
Matt. 18, 2. The same is taught by the parable when Christ in the same dispute concerning the kingdom places a little child in the midst, signifying that among ministers there is not to be sovereignty, just as a child neither takes nor seeks sovereignty for himself.
John 20, 21. Christ sends forth His disciples on an equality, without any distinction [so that no one of them was to have more or less power than any other], when He says: As My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. [These words are clear and plain:] He says that He sends them individually in the same manner as He Himself was sent; hence He grants to no one a prerogative or lordship above the rest.
Gal. 2, 7f St. Paul manifestly affirms that he was neither ordained nor confirmed [and endorsed] by Peter, nor does he acknowledge Peter to be one from whom confirmation should be sought. And he expressly contends concerning this point that his call does not depend upon the authority of Peter. But he ought to have acknowledged Peter as a superior if Peter was superior by divine right [if Peter, indeed, had received such supremacy from Christ]. Paul accordingly says that he had at once preached the Gospel [freely for a long time] without consulting Peter. Also: Of those who seemed to be somewhat (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me; God accepteth no man's person). And: They who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me. Since Paul, then, clearly testifies that he did not even wish to seek for the confirmation of Peter [for permission to preach] even when he had come to him, he teaches that the authority of the ministry depends upon the Word of God, and that Peter was not superior to the other apostles, and that it was not from this one individual Peter that ordination or confirmation was to be sought [that the office of the ministry proceeds from the general call of the apostles, and that it is not necessary for all to have the call or confirmation of this one person, Peter, alone].
In 1 Cor. 3, 6, Paul makes ministers equal, and teaches that the Church is above the ministers. Hence superiority or lordship over the Church or the rest of the ministers is not ascribed to Peter [in preference to other apostles]. For he says thus: All things are yours, whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, i.e., let neither the other ministers nor Peter assume for themselves lordship or superiority over the Church; let them not burden the Church with traditions; let not the authority of any avail more than the Word [of God]; let not the authority of Cephas be opposed to the authority of the other apostles, as they reasoned at that time: "Cephas, who is an apostle of higher rank, observes this; therefore, both Paul and the rest ought to observe this." Paul removes this pretext from Peter, and denies [Not so, says Paul, and makes Peter doff his little hat, namely, the claim] that his authority is to be preferred to the rest or to the Church.
The Council of Nice resolved that the bishop of Alexandria should administer the churches in the East, and the Roman bishop the suburban, i.e., those which were in the Roman provinces in the West. From this start by a human law, i.e. the resolution of the Council, the authority of the Roman bishop first arose. If the Roman bishop already had the superiority by divine law, it would not have been lawful for the Council to take any right from him and transfer it to the bishop of Alexandria; nay, all the bishops of the East ought perpetually to have sought ordination and confirmation from the bishop of Rome.
If you want to read a good Pro-testament point of view, I recommend " A Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope" (http://www.bookofconcord.org/treatise.html). Even if you don't agree with it, it's a good read so that you'll know the opposition.
Have a blessed day!
Which "Hebrew"?
Where does the Bible make THAT claim?
And Saul, as yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, And asked of him letters to Damascus, to the synagogues: that if he found any men and women of this way, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. And as he went on his journey, it came to pass that he drew nigh to Damascus; and suddenly a light from heaven shined round about him. And falling on the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? Who said: Who art thou, Lord? And he: I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. It is hard for thee to kick against the goad. And he trembling and astonished, said: Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do. Now the men who went in company with him, stood amazed, hearing indeed a voice, but seeing no man. And Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. But they leading him by the hands, brought him to Damascus.
Nothing about the Lord speaking Hebrew to Saul/Paul there.
Here read it and weep:
"Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."[Acts 26:11-14]
In the words of Fr. John Corapi:
We recall a striking scene from the Gospel of Matthew: Jesus and his disciples are passing through the region of Caesarea Philippi—a region known for its pagan religions. The Master asks his disciples who they say that the Son of Man is. It was perhaps one of the first public opinion polls regarding Christianity. The results of such polls of mere personal opinions, then as now, are less than satisfying: “Some say John the Baptizer, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” These were conflicting and contradictory guesses and opinions that have none of the ring of authority and authenticity the human spirit needs in order to walk confidently in the dark night of faith. Then, one voice rang out, the voice of Simon: “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God!” The response of the Lord is the definitive answer when it comes to answering the question, “Who founded the Church?”: “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it.” Note who the “I” is: the “I” is a divine person, the subject of action is divine; God himself institutes the Church. The Church is not a mere human institution. Christ, the eternal Word, the Father’s Son, institutes and builds his Church on the “Rock.”
All through the Old Testament, “Rock” with an uppercase “R” refers to God himself Then in the Gospel of Matthew referred to above, we see Jesus, the “Rock,” because he is a divine subject of action, renaming Simon “Rock.” Jesus, the real “Rock,” is also referred to as the “bridegroom” or “groom” as well in Scripture. The Church is his “bride” (#796). We know, also from the Word, that in marriage, whether natural or supernatural, the “two become one flesh.” Jesus and his church are one; bridegroom and bride are one. Hence, Christ is naming Peter “Rock”, one with himself. There is no other “Rock” other than Christ absolutely speaking. However, the Rock, in a mystical marriage, unites his beloved bride, the Church, to himself. Simon is named “Rock”, and whoever hears the Rock Peter is hearing the Rock who is Christ; whoever rejects the Rock who is Peter, rejects the Rock Christ and the One who sent him, the Father.
My comments:
Fr. Corapi’s last sentence is worth noting when you consider those who eventually turned away from the throne of Peter to start their own Christian churches. We all used to understand the same thing when reading Christ’s words, “This is my body.” In 1577, about 50 years after Luther’s excommunication, Christopher Rasperger wrote a book entitled “Two Hundred Interpretations of the words ‘This is My Body.’”
My issue with Sola Scriptura is the same one I had back in literature class in high school. Twenty people read the same book, and you end up with 20 different points of view about what they read. In most cases, people are reading the Bible in whatever language they speak, and sometimes, without going back to the original language, you are missing out on the whole story. Perhaps it was translated poorly. Perhaps the English language itself lacks the ability to paint a complete picture.
Without Sacred Tradition and Magisterial Teaching to form a trinity with Sacred Scripture, you just aren’t getting the complete picture. I’m sorry if you don’t agree with that, but I just don’t think my Protestant brothers and sisters are getting the whole story if they rely on Scripture alone.
A deeper hermeneutical understanding is that Peter was the embodiment of the rock which is the true faith.
>> And in Hebrew “Kepha” or “Cephas” means “a hollow rock” — hardly something that you would want to build anything upon, much less a church. <<
Wow, that took only several minutes to be twisted! When I posted that in the other thread I didn’t want people to falsely infer that Catholics were worshiping Peter, but actually the longer definition from which I got that included the fact that such “hollow rocks” were usually the bases of shrines. A Cephas is EXACTLY the type of rock one WOULD build a church on.
And just where would that hermeneutical understanding be found -- the thin air above the Vatican???
Peter was more like a "chip" off that Rock rather than the embodiment thereof.
I think you’re misunderstanding the use of the word, “hollow.”
How could a rock be hollow in the sense of empty inside? And why would one build a church on an emptied-out rock? Think not of a rock which is empty on the inside, but a rock into which a hollow has been carved or formed; a grotto, or a natural amphitheater.
In any case, as I stated the first time, Ceph was the hollowed rock, not Cephas; I was explaining the root of Cephas.
>> Peter was more like a “chip” off that Rock rather than the embodiment thereof. <<
That simply defies the meaning of the word, “Cephas,” or “Petros.” And the basic sensibility of Jesus’ statement:
“You, Simon, are a pebble, and on this rock, I will build my church.” Does that make any sense?
Jesus does not say, “You, Simon, are a [whatever], and on rock, I will build my church.” He uses a word like “this.”
The only sensible translation is:
“You Simon, are rock, and on this rock, I will build my church.”
| "Most people enjoy the inferiority of their best friends." - Lord Chesterfield |
The author seems to pick and choose between the Chruch Fathers by which agree with him. Lets see what some of the other Chruch Fathers said on this subject:
St. Hilary, Bishop of Poitiers, in his second work on the Trinity, says, "The Rock (petra) is the blessed and only Rock of the faith confessed by the mouth of St. Peter;" and in his Sixth book of the Trinity, he says, "It is on this Rock of the confession of faith that the Church is built.
"God has founded His Church on this Rock, and it is from this Rock that the apostle Peter has been named." - St. Jerome in his Sixth book on St. Matthew (note that Peter was named after the rock not the other way around.) "On this Rock I will build My Church that is, on the faith of the confession." Now, what was the confession of the apostle? Here it is "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." - St. Chrysostom in his Fifty third Homily on St. Matthew "He confessed that ‘Christ’ is ‘the Son of the living God,’ and was told, ‘On this rock of sure faith will I build my church’—for he plainly confessed that Christ is true Son." - Epiphanius, The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis
"Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it ‘Peter,’ perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: ‘For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.’ To whom be glory and power forever." - Basil
In his speech prepared for, but not delivered in, the Vatican Council, and published at Naples in 1870, he declares that Roman Catholics cannot establish the Petrine privilege from Scripture, because of the clause in the Creed of Pius IV, binding them to interpret Scripture only according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.
And he adds that there are five different patristic interpretations of St. Matt. 16:18
Let's look at how the Church Fathers line up over this verse:
2....That the whole Apostolic College is the Rock, represented by Peter as its chief, is taught by eight (8) Church Fathers
3....That St. Peter's faith is the Rock, is taught by forty-four (44) Church Fathers
4....That Christ is the Rock, is taught by sixteen Fathers (16)
5....That the rock is the whole body of the faithful. Archbp. Kendrick gives no figure.
"If we are bound to follow the greater number of Fathers in this matter, then we must hold for certain that the word "Petra" means not Peter professing the Faith, but the faith professed by Peter."
This is an important point since one of the RC Councils laid down the regulation that a preponderance of patristic consensus is needed for the promulgation of any dogma.
Friedrich, Docum ad illust. Conc. Vat. 1, pp. 185-246
Too bad Catholic Answers doesn't take the same humble attitude of acceptance of the church fathers' teachings on Genesis 1-11.
The inscription on the cross was written in Latin, Greek and HEBREW.
Which "Hebrew"?
jesuitical parsing !
Ask yourself the question:shalom b'SHEM Yah'shuaWhy would YHvH, the creator of the universe
choose a sinner to lead His called out ones ?Answer
He did not;
he provided His Holy Spirit to illuminate His Holy Word !
Oh no -- not at all.
I agree that "hollow rock" [Hebrew "cephas"] seems like a strange definition but that is how Strong's Concordance defines it, as distinguishing it from the Hebrew "Sela" and "Tsur" which are solid hard fortress type rocks that served as castles and fortresses. And even Webster's Dictionary uses the word "hollow" as the antonym for the word "solid".
The Hebrew "kaph" also means "a hollow hand, the palm of the hand, the fist, the hand that has nothing inside of it" -- thus carrying the same basic meaning of a hollow rock.
By calling Simon "Cephas" [Hebrew: hollow rock] rather than "Tsur" or "Selah" [Hebrew: massive solid rocks], Jesus is distinguishing Simon Cephas from himself, the solid rock [Hebrew: Selah / Tsur] found in the Hebrew underpinning all those scriptures that Xenis St provided earlier: the Rock of that salvation that issued forth from those Hebrew scriptures.
When I posted that in the other thread I didn’t want people to falsely infer that Catholics were worshiping Peter, but actually the longer definition from which I got that included the fact that such “hollow rocks” were usually the bases of shrines.
"hollow rocks" but not the "solid rock" of those Hebrew scriptures. Makes one wonder about those shrines, doesn't it???
Again, I ask you, as I did in post #16, which Hebrew?
The "HEBREW" that Jesus spoke to Paul from heaven, the "HEBREW" that Paul understood as he listened to that voice from heaven, the "HEBREW" that Paul used to speak to the people of Jerusalem in Acts 21:40, the "HEBREW" that the crowd understood as he spoke to them, the "HEBREW" that Jesus and the Apostles and the Jews used to communicate with each other, the "HEBREW" that issued forth from those "HEBREW" scriptures, the "HEBREW" inscribed on the cross that matched the Greek and the Latin that was also there, the "HEBREW" that accommodated into it words and names and phrases from other languages, just like English does with those things from the French, Spanish, German but is still the English language.
That "HEBREW"
Not a single scriptural reference to prove or even suggest such a heresy could be true...
You said:
You didn't even read the beginning of the article, right?
Here it is:
The New Testament contains five different metaphors for the foundation of the Church (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14).
There is not a single word in any of the verses you cited that refer to the apostle Peter...AND,
Although these verses may refer to a 'church', they DO NOT REFER TO YOUR CHURCH
And how do I know that???
Because someone named Peter is the ROCK and the head of your church...And there is no one named Peter who is the head of the church referred to in the verses you cited...
How could you possibly use those verses to justify the existance of your church and/or someone named Peter to run your church???
I'm hoping you put down your Catholic Digest and your catechism and spend time in prayer (to God) and spend some serious time in the word of God...
Wow, I didn't know you had such a clear picture of my prayer life. I didn't know you placed a bug into my brain so you can eavsdrop in my inner and personal dialogue with the Lord.
You guys do realize that languages and cultures change over time?
Do you not think that Yah'shua spokeshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
in the language He created for His Word ?I remind you that Yah'shua is the creator of the universe
and the Word of Elohim !
The written word, as opposed to THE WORD, was written in at least two languages - the Old Testament largely in Hebrew, and the New Testament largely in Greek.
and your point is ?
>> Why would YHvH, the creator of the universe choose a sinner to lead His called out ones ? <<
Moses and David were murderers. Yet even God himself permitted himself to be called, “Son of David,” and he traced his royal lineage through that of David. So why are you surprised that the Good Shepherd would tell a man, “Peter, shepherd my sheep.”
and your point is ?
That given the above, it’s odd for you to say “Do you not think that Yah’shua spoke in the language He created for His Word?” when the Bible was written in at least two languages originally!
But it is still the same language. Our English forefathers spoke English that is different in many ways from the English that we use, but it is still called "English" -- right???? The same is true with the Greek, the Latin, the German, the Spanish, and the Hebrew.
Yeah, I see you point, but “Hebrew” in this sense was probably Aramaic. Both are Semitic languages that were spoken by the Jews.
You argue from the flesh.Some of us have the spirit of Elohim in us.
I serve YHvH, the Elohim of Israel !
On that note, I don't get this attitude that is sometimes displayed. I can understand that you are grateful for the Lord and His gifts, but it often comes out as a presumption. "Oh you don't believe like me, then you must not have the 'Spirit of Elohim' in you!" I mean, how are you so sure!?
45 posted on 02/01/2008 12:47:21 PM MST by Pyro7480
It is simple decernment,
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
you argue for a man, a sinner, a created being as the head of your church.
I serve YHvH the creator of the universe, the Elohim of Israel.
Yeh right??? -- just like our English forefathers must have been speaking German, after all, they were both European languages.
TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.
I will certainly escape your interpretation of the truth, thank you very much.
To plainly renounce your notion that the sinful nature of a given pope means that the papacy cannot possibly be a divinely ordained institution. Moses was a murderer, yet through him, the Revelation of the Law was given. David was murderer, yet through him the King of Zion was established. Yet you cannot fathom how a sinner can authoritatively discern when the Church speaks as one on a doctrine (let alone bear Revelation)? Or how a sinner can hold authority over spiritual matters (let alone over nations)?
49 posted on 02/01/2008 1:05:58 PM MST by dangus
He clearly said He would send one not unlike Himself Yah'shua did not appoint a man to run His called out ones.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
for each of us as a priest in the second covenant,
when the Word of Elohim is written on our heart.( Jer 31:31)
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