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What is God's View of a Woman as the Head of a Nation?
Must Remain Anonymous Due to Islam | January 31, 2008 | Bible Teacher in Egypt

Posted on 02/01/2008 7:52:05 AM PST by Jonathan

A Question to Ponder

It may too late in the process, but I thought we should ask this question: What is God’s view of a woman as the head of a nation? How we answer that question will, of course, betray our system of Bible interpretation; so, let’s ask the text.

In the midst of his pronouncement of awful judgment, Isaiah states as part of that judgment, “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”

If this were a simple exception, we might pass it by without asking what it means to the whole of mankind. If the scripture speaks for itself, without our isolating texts, then the evidence is compelling. We would begin by asking some overarching questions: Whom did God choose to write the Scriptures? Who did Christ choose as His disciples? Who are those entrusted with the biblical leadership of the local church? This list is a yard long. The short list that includes Deborah and the great lady of Proverbs 31 is the exception, not the rule.

Don’t Miss the Point

This has absolutely nothing to do with the value God places on women. Godly women are important and are greatly used of our Lord, but always within assigned roles. I thank God every day for my godly mother and my godly wife. During my more than thirty-seven years as a pastor, some wonderful women were placed by God to serve with distinction in those local churches. Their servant’s spirits were an inspiration to everyone who knew them.

The protection and grace extended by God to women is a great witness to the heart of biblical Christianity. The elevation of women to a place of respect, as found in the Bible, is in marvelous contrast to other religions. None of this, however, gives us the answer to the proposed question.

Nor is the question answered by the law of any land. I chuckle when I imagine anyone suggesting that Jezebel was a fine individual just because she was a queen! It is true that God sets up and deposes rulers. Romans 13:1 says clearly that “the powers that be are ordained of God”. This tells us that God is sovereign, but it doesn’t answer the question.

One More Time

So, what is God’s view of a woman ruling a nation? Feminists would say there should be no job limitations for women. Those who isolate texts would say on this issue that it is limited to marriage or to the local church; however, that serves only to reveal their system of interpretation. Philosophers would say that it makes a difference if the woman in question is a godly woman. These approaches only frustrate the discussion, because with them we are still asking man what he thinks; and man is such a flawed source.

We end up right back where we began. What does the text say? It says that in the middle of an awful judgment the people get what they deserve, “and women rule over them”.


TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2008; hillary; judgment; womanpresident; women
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I cannot name the author - he is teaching theology to converted, born-again former Muslims in an Muslim country in the Middle East.

That distance, and his sound Biblical outlook must provide some clarity to the national suicide that America is heading fast towards.

1 posted on 02/01/2008 7:52:06 AM PST by Jonathan
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To: Jonathan

God didn’t seem to mind Mrs. Thatcher....


2 posted on 02/01/2008 7:53:56 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Jonathan

I don’t think the Baptists are too high on the idea.


3 posted on 02/01/2008 7:54:47 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

“and women shall rule over them”


4 posted on 02/01/2008 7:55:58 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Jonathan
It says that in the middle of an awful judgment the people get what they deserve, "and women rule over them".

Sounds like he's pandering to the misogyny of people who apparently aren't as "converted" as they claim.

5 posted on 02/01/2008 7:56:17 AM PST by steve-b (Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. --RAH)
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To: highball
God didn’t seem to mind Mrs. Thatcher....

Or is it maybe WE didn’t mind Mrs. Thatcher?

How do you know God didn’t mind Mrs. Thatcher?

Personally, I respect her and like her ... but I’m a fallible mortal ... .

6 posted on 02/01/2008 7:56:28 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: Jonathan
God’s government was established with ‘judges’ oh and what a judge ‘Deborah’ was... Toooooo many men have paved US a path to Hillary!!!!
7 posted on 02/01/2008 7:58:14 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: highball

yeah, the rule was flexible for her...Britain needed her badly because of the wimphood of so many men over their.


8 posted on 02/01/2008 7:58:19 AM PST by fabian
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To: Non-Sequitur

I’m a Baptist. The Bible says NOTHING against a woman holding governmental authority.


9 posted on 02/01/2008 7:58:28 AM PST by Politicalmom (I'm the aunt of a brand-new Naval Officer. I'm proud of you, Kristi.)
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To: nmh

You and me both, friend.

But the notion that God doesn’t want women leaders, or that God will judge countries who elect women, is silly if not downright offensive. More appropriate to the sort of people the author is reportedly converting.


10 posted on 02/01/2008 7:59:11 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: steve-b

Then what’s the excuse for the comments already piling up on this thread? Former Muslim infiltrators? :)


11 posted on 02/01/2008 7:59:57 AM PST by Politicalmom (I'm the aunt of a brand-new Naval Officer. I'm proud of you, Kristi.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I don’t think the Baptists are too high on the idea.

If Billy Graham says she would make a good leader they will follow the pack in droves.... Huckabeee mind you -- McCain's siphon offfff from the Clinton base...

12 posted on 02/01/2008 8:00:08 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat
“and women shall rule over them”

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

13 posted on 02/01/2008 8:00:19 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Jonathan
What brave folks. May the Lord bless them and keep them safe.
14 posted on 02/01/2008 8:00:25 AM PST by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: highball

...Or even the late Golda Meir lead as a pm in Isreal itself.

This article could have been writen because the teacher knows that the USA is looking closely at having its first woman President elected.


15 posted on 02/01/2008 8:00:35 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: fabian
yeah, the rule was flexible for her...

I wasn't aware that God's rules were particularly flexible.

The UK selected a woman to rule, and God declined to rain judgment down on their little green island.

Seems pretty conclusive to me that the author is talking out of his hat, to put it mildly.

16 posted on 02/01/2008 8:00:36 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Jonathan
"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers,
nor the desire of women, nor regard any god:
for he shall magnify himself above all" (Dan. 11:37)

17 posted on 02/01/2008 8:01:41 AM PST by evets (beer)
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To: Politicalmom
I’m a Baptist. The Bible says NOTHING against a woman holding governmental authority.

Doesn't your church use 1 Timothy 2:12 as an excuse for keeping women out of the ministry? Why should authority in secular life be any different?

18 posted on 02/01/2008 8:01:50 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: nmh

How do we know God didn’t mind all those men?

The scripture quoted isn’t convincing to me. It may be simply an allegory for “wimpy and weak-kneed”.

Christianity, specifically, was derided as the religion of “women and slaves”. Wonder why.


19 posted on 02/01/2008 8:02:40 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: fabian

Margaret Thatcher was not called “the Iron Lady” for nothing.


20 posted on 02/01/2008 8:02:42 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

And the 'man' is to be to the woman as Christ is to the Church.... Christ willingly DIED for the Church... Toooo many men stop reading about their supposed 'authority' and never quite get around to what is their responsibility.

21 posted on 02/01/2008 8:03:32 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: Biggirl
This article could have been writen because the teacher knows that the USA is looking closely at having its first woman President elected.

Oh, I think that's obvious.

I'm only taking issue with the writer's silly conclusion that God is opposed to the concept of female leaders.

22 posted on 02/01/2008 8:04:16 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Non-Sequitur

How come so many women cropped up leading small local congregations?


23 posted on 02/01/2008 8:05:25 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Jonathan

Your post makes the assumption that this passage, addressed
to the nation of Israel, a Theocracy, is meant for all nations
at all times.

There is dispute among scholars as to the correct meaning of
this passage - just check a number of conservative commentaries
on Isaiah.

The post forms a doctrine on one passage. Never a good idea
when it is unclear.

Generally, when men do not lead, God has a woman willing.


24 posted on 02/01/2008 8:05:42 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Biggirl

yes, and if they had an iron man then, I think she would have not put herself forward.


25 posted on 02/01/2008 8:05:53 AM PST by fabian
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To: evets

“Beelzeflubba”


26 posted on 02/01/2008 8:06:06 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Because the letters each had a specific purpose. That purpose had nothing to do with secular government.

The Bible has several examples of powerful women.


27 posted on 02/01/2008 8:06:28 AM PST by Politicalmom (I'm the aunt of a brand-new Naval Officer. I'm proud of you, Kristi.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
How come so many women cropped up leading small local congregations?

Because they defied the authority of the Southern Baptist leadership?

28 posted on 02/01/2008 8:06:36 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Nuc1

“They cried to the rocks and the mountains but despaired because God heard not their cry . . .”

It’s from an old song about judgment.

How sad.


29 posted on 02/01/2008 8:06:56 AM PST by Jonathan
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To: Non-Sequitur

Huh? Really, we’re talking NT here. Also, where is it in the Gospels?


30 posted on 02/01/2008 8:08:09 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I think you are wrong.

I think that the author meant it as a hermeneutical test on each readers view of Scripture.

Your answer is evidence.


31 posted on 02/01/2008 8:08:36 AM PST by Jonathan
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To: highball

Often when I think of Hilary, and from seeing a book by the same name, she would be thought up as the “American Evita”.


32 posted on 02/01/2008 8:08:44 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: Jonathan
The New Testament teaches of the choices of the individual and the role of the Church, it does not teach of the role of the nation or the nation’s leaders. The Old Testament teaches of hereditary kingship thus doesn’t really apply in the context today.
33 posted on 02/01/2008 8:09:19 AM PST by mnehring (Glenfiddich/Macallan 08)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Also, where is it in the Gospels?

Where is opposition to homosexuality in the Gospels?

34 posted on 02/01/2008 8:10:28 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: highball
Or Golda Meir.

Gotta love it when some human tells us what God thinks.

35 posted on 02/01/2008 8:10:41 AM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: Non-Sequitur

I know. But, in our decline, he prophesied that we would allow women to rule over us.


36 posted on 02/01/2008 8:10:47 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: highball

Maggie Thatcher didn’t want to rule with an iron fist.


37 posted on 02/01/2008 8:12:48 AM PST by wastedyears (This is my BOOMSTICK)
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To: fabian

The closet “iron men” she had two other leaders, one from across the “pond”, the “Great Communicator”, Ronald Reagan, and of course, from Eastern Europe, the Great Pope, JP2. Those three became a lengendary troaka that helped bring an end to the Cold War.


38 posted on 02/01/2008 8:13:19 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: Jonathan

Deborah, was a Judge..........


39 posted on 02/01/2008 8:14:22 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: Red Badger

Yep, she was.


40 posted on 02/01/2008 8:16:00 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: sheik yerbouty

41 posted on 02/01/2008 8:16:06 AM PST by evets (beer)
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To: Jonathan

Don’t you just love the way mortals presume to apply their own prejudices upon a loving God?
How does this apply to our nation now anyway?
This Presidential race has testosterone on BOTH sides!
Eventually we WILL have a REAL CONSERVATIVE woman as a leader- assuming there’s a country left intact by Socialists and Muslims.


42 posted on 02/01/2008 8:17:24 AM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: evets

She can NEVER hold up a candle to Margaret or Golda. The USA deserves better.


43 posted on 02/01/2008 8:17:50 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: Biggirl

And Judges were, at the time, the defacto “leaders” of the nation...........


44 posted on 02/01/2008 8:17:57 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: Red Badger

Second it.


45 posted on 02/01/2008 8:19:00 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: ClearBlueSky

...And those choices are not that great either this year.


46 posted on 02/01/2008 8:19:50 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: highball

God didn’t seem to mind Mrs. Thatcher....

True. Why did he give humans freewill if they cannot make a choice?


47 posted on 02/01/2008 8:20:46 AM PST by DOGEY
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To: Jonathan
Pay Cesar’s things unto Cesar, and God’s things unto God. We are not electing a religious leader. We are electing a secular, political leader of a secular, political nation. If you don’t want women leading your church, don’t elect them.
48 posted on 02/01/2008 8:20:53 AM PST by Excellence (Bacon Bits Make Great Confetti)
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To: Jonathan

What rubbish.

I don’t think God would have minded Jean Kirkpatrick.


49 posted on 02/01/2008 8:22:59 AM PST by Maceman
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To: Biggirl

Plus, there were prophetesses as well as prophets.......


50 posted on 02/01/2008 8:24:14 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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